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Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

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  • Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

    Another great night of achievement. Broodlord and the suppression room were one-timed and we saw Firemaw.

    Suppression room:
    Us mages generally toned down our dmg a tad and paced ourselves instead of just over-agging the whelps. As for myself, SLOOOOWW Arcane Explosions (wrath of cenarius removed) and when agg was gotten, constant spam of Mana Shield. This seemed to work well unless we were moving or needing to speed up. Also, this time some of us wore a bit more FR to be a bit more resistant to the dragonkin... since our dmg. needed to be toned down anyways this was ok. A few died during the engagements (myself included), so we'll have to work on that.

    Broodlord:
    Our strat changed in that we fought Broodlord from the nests instead of from the gate with the tanks at the nests. This seemed to work out well, BUT initially the whelps were a problem as they got amongst the Broodlord and the tanks. I went in to AoE-pull the whelps away and died in the process. Nevertheless, all the whelps were exterminated. I cant think of much of anything else strat-wise in this fight... aside from reminding everyone NOT to waste expensive pots on this encounter.

    Firemaw pulls:
    This was where it got interesting. Mages have to serve as Aoe-tanks. Siulung is built specifically for this engagement as his aoe-dmg is most in the guild with arcane explosions combined with WoC, also because of mana and mana-regen. Usually if I'm in the raid I'll be the crazy one to go in there against the Goblins. This portion of the room will go smoothly once we extracate the warlocks from the goblins. Every time I died it was because Warlocks pwned me faster then healers could heal me. Also, us mages must learn to stick and move (ONLY use Arcane Explosion) as the Gobbys throw dynamite and it can be dodged - just make sure u stay in healer range. So, as long as hunters get those Locks out of the picture, healers stay informed of who they're healing (if mages switch-out because of death or mana, say-so on TS please... BEFORE u engage the goblins), we'll be fine. The gobby's have about 14k hitpoints. I should be able to get them down in 15-20 AE's... probably about 20 seconds - assuming I'm the only one hitting them.

    Firemaw:
    We CAN use pots on this encounter if need-be, but until we see the condition of our mana it's tough to tell. I had a mageblood potion and nightfin soup, and my mana was up near 8500... i doubt i would've needed any more. Of course, I never got to fire more then a few shots at Firemaw as we had line-of-sight/agg issues.

    Someone else wanna chime in on this? How do we fix/improve this fight? Firemaw must die the next time we're in there

    Like I've said before... as of TODAY Vael shouldn't be a problem unless we newb him up. Same goes for the Broodlord (casters will have to watch their agg more carefully now though).

  • #2
    Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

    Ok my input:

    Suppression Rooms:
    I pushed took things slowly to start in the first room, and let us regroup on the stairs. I wanted to push through the second floor in about 5 mins, and we were just slighly longer than that, but was happy with our timing on that. The big thing here is that people not leave the designated areas unless they absolutely have do, as they will aggro behind us, or in front of us, and that can lead to deaths which just slows us down.

    Broodlord:
    I didn't know what strat Manny had used, as I was not there the last time you guys attempted him, so I used info I had read on the fight and went with what I had. I actually prefer it because if the tanks charge the door (not the corner) it just reduces the movement of the broodlord and reduces the ammount of time needed to position him and ensures that no cleaves ever get near the casters. The initial whelp aggro on tanks was respawn that happened during moving him back to the door due to some misunderstanding on the initial pull. Once positioned the whelps only aggroed on the casters which was perfect. I ran with a 25% wanding 25% mid-level spells, 20% wanding 30% full damage strategy, and that worked well, as our tanks had great aggro and our casters and DPS did a great job of watching their aggro. This was a very smooth kill.

    Firemaw:
    This was just a timing issue of not giving Beep enough time to get started before healing started. I think we are just going to have to find the right balance because that seeing beep drop 2-3s of his health right off the bat immediately puts most of the healers into quick heal mode. I think once we have seen it a couple more times we will be able to do this. What I would like to see is an answer as to why shield is a bad thing, as it takes 1k of the initial damage and at least gives the priests a bit more time to react, even if it reduces the ammount of rage that Beep generates, Blood Rage generates enough rage for 1 sunder and by the time that is up, the shield will be gone. I think at this point, its just a safety net to give the healers a bit more time before we have to start healing.
    Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

    | | |

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    • #3
      Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

      Originally posted by Sajier View Post
      What I would like to see is an answer as to why shield is a bad thing, as it takes 1k of the initial damage and at least gives the priests a bit more time to react, even if it reduces the ammount of rage that Beep generates, Blood Rage generates enough rage for 1 sunder and by the time that is up, the shield will be gone. I think at this point, its just a safety net to give the healers a bit more time before we have to start healing.
      I agree with Sajier here... we shield MT before bosses quite often. As long as the shield is there before the pull then the priest won't draw any aggro. If rage is the issue then perhaps we can get some cheap rage pots made up for Beep. With Blood Rage and a pot initial rage wouldn't be an issue would it?

      One question I have is what is Firemaw immune to? Is he immune to taunt? or Demoralizing Shout? If he's immune to taunt then its obviously a waste of time to taunt before sundering. If he's not immune to demoralizing shout that may be a quick grab to get a sunder in before the healing starts.

      Also, we all know that we need to wait to heal. That's fine. However, if I am healing Beep I have him targetted not the mob. Which means I can't see when a sunder goes up. I do have target's target on so I can see Beep is targetting Firemaw who's targetting Beep, but that doesn't help identify when sunders are up.
      Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
      Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
      ...and other distractions of various levels.

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      • #4
        Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

        Suppression Room:
        I liked starting it out a little slow at first. I think this helps the RL gauge how quickly the raid group can move through the room, and sets the pace for the rest of the pulls. The rogues did an amazing job staying on top of the suppression devices. Overall a very smooth run through the room, and a lot of fun from my perspective.

        Broodlord:
        I still can't believe how smooth this fight went. I was astounded to see the 3 main tanks staying on top of the Threat Meter.Even after getting the aggro reducing knockback, all 3 climbed back to the top without issue. Very nice job Beep, Kel, and Tonk. The rest of the raid group was on their game as well. Great healing, and dps. Awesome job calling the fight Saj.

        Firemaw:
        Idea for getting Beep some initial aggro quickly: have the pulling hunter Aimshot, Beep taunts... this should give him a good aggro buffer so that healing can start a little sooner.
        Uglyduck - Spec varies - Currently Prot
        MMORPG = Many Men Online Role-Playing as Girls

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        • #5
          Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

          Now that the patch is coming out, can't we have a hunter do a distracting shot? Won't this direct all the aggro from the hunter's shot at Beep? This combined with a sunder, taunt, or shout would probably give more than enough aggro to the MT.
          Ninja

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          • #6
            Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

            Thats a great idea Gav, I definitely would like to see how this works outside of BWL first though, so maybe we can test it over the next couple days, if we can get a warrior and hunter guinea pig.
            Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

            | | |

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            • #7
              Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

              Originally posted by Sajier View Post
              Thats a great idea Gav, I definitely would like to see how this works outside of BWL first though, so maybe we can test it over the next couple days, if we can get a warrior and hunter guinea pig.
              I would be glad to help experiment with this, tonight.. assuming the server is stable.
              Uglyduck - Spec varies - Currently Prot
              MMORPG = Many Men Online Role-Playing as Girls

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              • #8
                Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

                First off, the spell that I was thinking of is called Misdirection, not Distracting Shot. And after thinking about it for a few minutes, I checked on the WoW site and found that Misdirection won't be trainable until level 70.

                So much for my great idea. :)
                Ninja

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                • #9
                  Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

                  Originally posted by Gaviin View Post
                  First off, the spell that I was thinking of is called Misdirection, not Distracting Shot. And after thinking about it for a few minutes, I checked on the WoW site and found that Misdirection won't be trainable until level 70.

                  So much for my great idea. :)
                  noob
                  Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
                  Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
                  ...and other distractions of various levels.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

                    Indeed.
                    Ninja

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                    • #11
                      Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

                      I was about to call Gaviin a noob and stop trying to tell what other classes can do until he knows them! NOOB :P but when we hunters hit lvl 70 I will be misdirection on you all the time!

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                      • #12
                        Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

                        Firemaw is not immune to taunt. None of the drakes are. In fact, they're designed to be certain that you are able to have an OT warrior taunt off before wing buffets.

                        Note that the pull aggro is very touchy. I wiped us in BWL last week because I snuck in a buff too late on Mages. Mages weren't part of the pull, and that combined with Sarevok missing a sunder, a shield slam, and having a taunt resisted meant that I caught early agg, and we got shadowflamed in the face. The chances of something like that happening with a tank in 5/9 Dreadnaught are about 0.3%, but it happens. Just goes to show how touchy those fights can be.

                        Shielding before the pull isn't a bad idea, since it does absorb damage, but if you're worried about 1000 damage the strategy isn't sound. Firemaw is a DPS race. You MUST kill him before the dots stack too high on the MT and your healers go OOM. The safest way to ensure this is to make sure the MT gets high aggro and the OT gets in underneath, and the best way to do that is to ensure that the MT has enough rage to instantly get some sunders in.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

                          Ark,

                          I brought this up with Manny in PM but is it possible to pet pull Firemaw with me standing behind Beep so he takes a B-Line for me after my pet is dead. I tried pulling him but he closes in pretty quick.

                          Any thoughts?
                          "Remember that all things are only opinions and that it is in your power to think as you please."

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                          • #14
                            Re: Aar: Bwl 12/3/06

                            You won't want to be near beep when you pull. Beep's position should be backed into a corner, and you're going to eat a very nasty shadow flame if you wait there too long. It's best to just wait for him to pat close and warrior pull him with the OT warrior.

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