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  • A candid question re: dps warriors

    Hi all,

    I was hoping I could solicit some candid feedback from the guild given your experience and knowledge of the Burning Crusade.

    As many of you know my shammy infatuation along with real life and solid case of burnout severely limited my time with you all. As a result I've fallen behind almost everyone and I'm struggling to catch up. :)

    My question is this: is there any room or need for a dps warrior in the expansion?

    One of the great things about the 40 person runs was that I could usually revel in my roll of knuckle dragging skull cracker. I'm not sure how much desire or aptitude I have for tanking anymore. It seems to me that the 5 person instances and heroics don't really leave a spot for a dps dinosaur. From my limited exposure, it seems that crowd control classes or hybrids are really much more desirable.

    So the question is, continue to level my warrior or level up another toon? I'd appreciate your thoughts.

    Bear
    “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

  • #2
    Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

    Originally posted by TG_Bear View Post
    Hi all,

    I was hoping I could solicit some candid feedback from the guild given your experience and knowledge of the Burning Crusade.

    As many of you know my shammy infatuation along with real life and solid case of burnout severely limited my time with you all. As a result I've fallen behind almost everyone and I'm struggling to catch up. :)

    My question is this: is there any room or need for a dps warrior in the expansion?

    One of the great things about the 40 person runs was that I could usually revel in my roll of knuckle dragging skull cracker. I'm not sure how much desire or aptitude I have for tanking anymore. It seems to me that the 5 person instances and heroics don't really leave a spot for a dps dinosaur. From my limited exposure, it seems that crowd control classes or hybrids are really much more desirable.

    So the question is, continue to level my warrior or level up another toon? I'd appreciate your thoughts.

    Bear
    I'd love to hear from Uglyduck and Halten (plus any other Arms/Fury specc'd warriors) who have first hand experience to pass along. Although I was duel-wield Fury spec up to 70, I switched back to a Protection spec tanking role for instance running once I leveled up.

    IMO, warrior tanks are still a viable end-game role, especially since the Blizzard patch "fix" for rage generation. Warriors are not automatically the "only" tanks of choice with Feral Druids and properly specc'd Paladins being able to bring their own unique contributions to the table. Warrior tanks do have (arguably) the best damage mitigation stats (Beep is currently at 61% combined dodge/parry/block), but carry less armor and HP than a comparably equipped feral Druid.

    Warriors specc'd for DPS have to be switch hitters :row__593: alternating as sword'n'board off-tanks where needed for crowd control. I think most non-heroic 5 mans can be tanked effectively by a DPS warrior who has 15-20 talent points in the Protection tree. I suspect in Heroic mode, the 5 man role for a DPS warrior alternates between "rogue in plate" and off-tank for crowd control...a role that is less clear cut.
    Beep


    Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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    • #3
      Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

      Originally posted by beep View Post
      I'd love to hear from Uglyduck and Halten (plus any other Arms/Fury specc'd warriors) who have first hand experience to pass along. Although I was duel-wield Fury spec up to 70, I switched back to a Protection spec tanking role for instance running once I leveled up.

      IMO, warrior tanks are still a viable end-game role, especially since the Blizzard patch "fix" for rage generation. Warriors are not automatically the "only" tanks of choice with Feral Druids and properly specc'd Paladins being able to bring their own unique contributions to the table. Warrior tanks do have (arguably) the best damage mitigation stats (Beep is currently at 61% combined dodge/parry/block), but carry less armor and HP than a comparably equipped feral Druid.

      Warriors specc'd for DPS have to be switch hitters :row__593: alternating as sword'n'board off-tanks where needed for crowd control. I think most non-heroic 5 mans can be tanked effectively by a DPS warrior who has 15-20 talent points in the Protection tree. I suspect in Heroic mode, the 5 man role for a DPS warrior alternates between "rogue in plate" and off-tank for crowd control...a role that is less clear cut.
      Thanks Beep. Just to be clear, I would never go on a run with the impression that I wouldn't be OT'ing on a number of occasions. In fact, I don't ever recall a run where I haven't tanked at some point regardless of spec. I guess the bigger question on my mind is why would someone bring and extra warrior on a 5 person run when you could bring a mage, rogue or lock? Their dps would be superior and their CC invaluable. I think Blizzard may have hastened my extinction with the BC :)
      “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

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      • #4
        Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

        Originally posted by TG_Bear View Post
        Thanks Beep. Just to be clear, I would never go on a run with the impression that I wouldn't be OT'ing on a number of occasions. In fact, I don't ever recall a run where I haven't tanked at some point regardless of spec. I guess the bigger question on my mind is why would someone bring and extra warrior on a 5 person run when you could bring a mage, rogue or lock? Their dps would be superior and their CC invaluable. I think Blizzard may have hastened my extinction with the BC :)
        Yeah...for 5 mans, CC is pretty central (thinking of Shattered Halls last night where we were dealing with 7 mob pulls toward the end). Warriors are not very effective at CC.

        The most directly competitive class (Rogues) can sap/gouge/kick to have a very direct impact on one or two mobs, with one out of the picture (sap) and another with limited damage (stun/gouge/kick). While a warrior CAN hold aggro on 2 or more mobs through a fight so long as others aren't attacking, they will be taking damage and needing heals and won't hold aggro on all mobs very long if others start DPS'ing in their direction.

        Hmmm...maybe this is why Halten switched his main from Halten (Warrior) to Violacea (Shaman)...:)
        Beep


        Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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        • #5
          Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

          From what i've seen, a DPS warrior is best suited to latching onto a feral druid tank. Now that thunderclap is usable in defensive, a prot warrior can handle it themselves..But a druid doesn't have that. So a warrior could help mitigate damage with their thunderclap, as well as increasing the damage...and thus threat, of the bear tank, through sunder's..as well as the shouts, giving more health, more damage, or less incoming damage.

          Between assisting the tank at doing their job, and offtanking where necessary, a DPS warrior can make themselves valuable and worth the slot...but it's not an easy path for them right now.

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          • #6
            Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

            Speaking from a raid perspective, flexibility is a fantastic thing and much like Feral Druids, Shadow Priests, Enhancement/Elemental Shaman, Prot/Red Pali, a DPS warrior has the ability to fill multiple roles in a raid, and that is a great thing. To be able to act as both DPS and tank at various times is an invaluable thing, just like DPS/Healing or Tank/Healing.

            I personally see DPS warriors as having a role, as they provide other things, but the 5 man role is a bit tougher.
            Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

            | | |

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            • #7
              Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

              The only experience I have had is with Hitch and Uglyduck. Those two in combo in 5 man runs totally rocked even in heroics.
              Dewi

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              • #8
                Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

                I ran SL a number of times with both Ugly and Hitch and I thought it worked great. Sure there isn't the option for CC, but depending on the makeup of the rest of your party you may not need it.
                Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
                Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
                ...and other distractions of various levels.

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                • #9
                  Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

                  *fears the dual guitar-wielding shadow priest*
                  Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

                  | | |

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                  • #10
                    Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

                    I will take the Ugly Hitch combo anyday. Duck can out dps about 98% of the other people and Hitch holds onto aggro like an ice cream cone.

                    I would take 3 Ducks and a Hitch with me healing anyday for a 5 man group.
                    Lub it on!!!

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                    • #11
                      Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

                      We field two DPS warriors. Currently the highest raid DPS spec for a warrior is MS-Flurry, hands down. The rage sustainability is phenomenal. There are limited times in raids when we ask one of them to tank. It's far better to have a tanking paladin or feral druid fill in that role, however. All in all, hybrid tanking gimps you for everything except maybe a heroic, and with most fights being massive DPS races (Magtheridon, Curator, Gruul, Hydross) you have to be one or the other.

                      Unfortunately, most of the end bosses in TBC are very melee unfriendly. While melee can play a limited part in simple fights like Gruul and Curator, when you get to Leotheras and Void Reaver you're better left spamming Shoot Bow.

                      But get your hands on a Gorehowl and pocket a shaman with Windfury, and 31/30 is obscene. It's the only thing that's come remotely close to our warlocks in a raid.

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                      • #12
                        Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

                        yes i have noticed Dps warriors can be very nice(haven't been able to group with ugly much but have seen halten alot) every once in a while i put on my old "dps" gear and pretend i can do damage when i am soloing.... ahh memories. but ya with the advent of very very viable druid tanks (read - out tanking me as a prot) and pallies (max does great) a dps warrior is a very nice choice. also if that is what you want to play then play that.. don't go tank if you dont want to.. myself i love to tank.. though sometimes i like to dps (hence the Crazy Fire Mage Alt).
                        FOR THE DICKENS!!!

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                        • #13
                          Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

                          Oh we're viable...

                          In regards to Ark, I think A MS/imp slam build would be better, but meh, that's just playstyle. I'm pretty sure all of our dps warriors can pump out lots of damage, I haven't grouped with ugly since he got his sword, though =/. Offtanking at times is needed, but I only really have to do it if I pull aggro :P, and most of the times if I have to tank a mob, I'll just do it in DPS gear, since the raid will be switching to my character soon. I still can't keep up with gaviin, but I'd say a DPS warrior is still a huge impact on raiding.

                          Brought to you by General Mills... Ragnar-Os! The only cereal with the Molten Core!
                          BY FIBER BE PURGED!! TASTE THE FLAVORS OF SULFURON!
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                          • #14
                            Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

                            I'm gonna take the other side of the fence on this question. I have noticed comments within the guild and outside that few spec's are really given a chance that go against the norm of what a class is expected to do.

                            Will you be viable to dps in a group and not tank. Probably. Will you be given the opportunity MOST of the time. Probably not. Disagree with me, tell me I'm cynical whatever. But in this game of Min/Max people are less than willing to allow you to experiment on their time.

                            I leveled a draenei warrior to 70 after BC. I leveled with fury to 70, I liked duel wield, its the type of character I had enjoyed in other games. I tried to get into 5 mans to dps and was told I needed to tank. So soon I was faced with the thought of respeccing to tank or being a subpar tank or a crappy soloist.

                            My solution was to drop my warrior and play my druid. One spec I can dps or tank. But even now I face prejudice in this game. If I join as feral I am tank, even within the guild I have heard mages and other "dps" classes lol when they talk about druid's dps.

                            This guild has changed so much since BC.

                            With so few group spots in instances no one wants any class that isn't optimal at that spots role. So, as dps you will have to compete against "true" dps classes that can CC as well as top your damage. In the end you'll either take 2x as long to experience content or give up.

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                            • #15
                              Re: A candid question re: dps warriors

                              Kailes:
                              I understand you feelings, but I think you are wrong here about certain things. First off, BC has created a need for FLEXIBILITY, not rigidity, in groups. A character who is good at taking on multiple roles is an absolute necessity in Karazhan, and I LOVE having that in groups. Illidan, right now, is trying to find someone who CAN fill just that type of role, a DPSer who can tank or heal as needed, because that flexibility will be a major asset to the squad.

                              However, you are right, there will ALWAYS be a need for a tank and a healer in a group, and frankly, there aren't enough tanks around, or healers to fill all the DPS people's needs. That means that people are going to look at Feral Druids and think "TANK!" because that is the biggest need in the game. When people see Warrior they see "TANK!". When people see priest they think "HEALER!". I am willing to bet Pistos gets a ton of random tells from people asking him to heal instances because there is a pre-disposed view that certain classes must fill certain roles.

                              That said, I would expect people in this guild would not be nearly as concerned about that. If guild DPS classes are mocking a druid's DPS, send them to Talara, I am sure he would have a few choice words for them, as would I. Every spec, every class, has its place, and can help a group or the guild. I will always take a guild player over anyone outside the guild any day of the week. Just because a group isn't a Min/Max layout doesn't mean they can't be EXTREMELY effective.

                              Adapt and overcome.
                              Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

                              | | |

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