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  • 25-Man instances...

    I was talking with a few people from some other guilds, including risen, and most of them were saying that they had gruul and mag's basically on a farming basis before attempting ssc and tk. Now I know it's fun to explore and check out these new instances and all but IMO I think we should maybe concentrate on mag's lair after gruul. We definitely had fun in TK tonight but we were really getting pwned in there. I just feel that our time would be better spent doing Gruul and Mag on our wed. and thur. untill we have more people w/T4 type gear. I'm not picking on anyone or anything like that, just heard a lot of talk about TK and SSC and not much about getting gruul on farm and heading into mag's lair. ;-).. just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

  • #2
    Re: 25-Man instances...

    There is actually a very good reason why they needed to have Gruul and Mag's Lair on farm status before going to SSC/TK.

    Attunements

    Without attunements we're free to explore SSC and TK to our heart's content and the 'gear requirements' aren't as high as you might think.

    Basically if you are wearing craftable epics you are getting T1 raiding quality gear. Arena gear is also another thing to factor in except S2 raiding gear is actually T2 raiding quality equivilant.

    Now today we went into The Eye and I was there for all of the last 30 minutes of the raid. We had some problems with trash, but that was more organization/pick up than 'we don't have the gear for this' kinda problems. The same with Void Reaver. I don't care if the raid is fully decked out in T6 and kills Illidan on a weekly basis, you can't kill Void Reaver if you don't avoid the Orbs. This is another 'attention and organization' issue rather than gear. People were getting killed by the orbs due to inattention and yet we still got Void Reaver down to ~60%. That's DAMN good. It was also our first stabs at it and we got in 2 attempts. If we could've gotten there a bit sooner I'm sure we could've gotten him down with another attempt or two.

    Arkamis touched upon it a bit in another thread, but I'll repeat it. Gruul and Mag's Lair are gear checks and were needed for attunement. Now that the attunement is gone Gruul is still a gear check, but there's no reason to keep hitting them if you can get the vastly superior loot out of SSC and TK.
    My sanity is not in question...
    It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


    Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



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    • #3
      Re: 25-Man instances...

      Also, like SAjier was saying in Officer chat last night, we didn't have enough tanks for Mag's last night or we woulda done that. Void Reaver is very doable with our current makeup and skill...however, as Tarenth points out, we need people to react faster. I saw alot of people that looked like Enya if she is in Tree form...rooted. Learn to stick and move. Stay in your general area and expect an orb to be thrown at you...if it is, what are you going to do? Think about it before you have to act...then react.

      Pick ups were slow, and banishes/sheeps at the end got hectic...until they focused on them, then perfection. This is what we need more of...focus and attention, not gear.

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      • #4
        Re: 25-Man instances...

        Agree 100%. Last night was a night for learning the trash. It's one thing to read about them, and another to experience them. On the VR packs, they sound really easy on paper...hey, just banish, sheep, and FF, how hard can that be? But the configuration of the rooms required us to make some positional adjustments before it was as easy as it sounded.

        Provided that people learn from what we saw tonight, don't repeat mistakes, and bring their full attention, the next time we go in there we will clear the trash in half the time and have an opportunity for a number of attempts on Void Reaver. Those will go much better than the ones last night, where nobody had seen the fight and most people were getting tired.

        If Gruul's is cleared and we don't have the right group makeup for Magtheridon, VR is absolutely the right place for us to be going. Sure it's tough, but who doesn't like a challenge?

        Gnopaine - Level 70 Warlock (Affliction)
        Scarpia (aka Edbane) - Level 70 Paladin (Holy)
        Ripoffron - Level 1 Auction House Hustler

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        • #5
          Re: 25-Man instances...

          I don't think it's really fair to say we got "pwned" in the Eye. It was our first foray into that instance and was a excellent learning experience. I think the current plan of attacking Gruul & Mag as well as the first couple bosses in the Eye and SSC makes perfect sense. Depending on group make-up, the difficulty level seems more or less equivalent. We are going to have plenty of wipes as we get familiar with the new content & strategies, so I hope we approach it as a challenge and don't get too discouraged.

          My main concern is the time factor. With only 2 nights of 25mans a week, we really need to make the most of the time we get on those nights. Since it's not realistic to expect people to stay much past 11pm on weeknights, I hope we can do our best to get the pulls started as close to 8pm as possible. Also, it might be nice to have a couple back-ups in queu if people know they will be unable to stay until 11pm.

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          • #6
            Re: 25-Man instances...

            Orion summarized my thoughts.

            Frankly, without the group make-up necessary for Mags (5 tanks/offtanks, enough healers, we had the tanks but only 6 healers if Max was tanking), it isn't worth our time to be in there. Last night gave us the opportunity to go into a much harder zone and get our bearings. We learned how the packs operate and we gained a better understanding of what we are in for. Void Reaver is absolutely killable. On our best attempt, we lost 3 heavy DPS people in the first minute of the fight, which slowed us down.

            I have already seen some adjustments I can make to positioning both on Void Reaver and on the trash that will help us dramatically next time, and I do believe that we can have VR down in short order, he is not a difficult fight, and we have the gear and skill to down him IF people bring their A game every night. We had a few too many lapses last night that need to be corrected.

            I will talk more in the AAR thread once it's posted.
            Last edited by beep; 08-24-2007, 01:40 PM.
            Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

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            • #7
              Re: 25-Man instances...

              FYI, you can very realistically do Magtheridon with 3 tanks and a DPS warrior.

              DPS warrior takes the first add with a hunter misdirecting right from the start. Tank takes adds #2 and 3, with a hunter misdirecting #3 to him. Once add #1 is dead, have one interrupter on add #3 just watching for interrupts, because it will try to heal its partner. The adds don't start hitting "hard" until 3 are dead. It's really all about interrupting the heals more than anything.

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              • #8
                Re: 25-Man instances...

                ty Arkamis...curious...what does the #1 and #5 adds hit you for? (ie: if all 5 are up, what type of DPS on a well geared tank vs. when only one is up.)

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                • #9
                  Re: 25-Man instances...

                  At first they all start hitting a well geared tank for about 1.5k (when they're all up).

                  When you get to only #5 standing, it hits for 3.5-4k.

                  Now, some things to note: the shadowbolt volley does in fact increase in damage as well as the melee. Also, the Channelers are Boss level mobs. As a result, crushing blows are on the table as is a lvl 73 hit check.

                  Make sure your rogues are not slacking on their hit gear or you will be missing critical interrupts.

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                  • #10
                    Re: 25-Man instances...

                    Please, Ark... don't insult me. :)
                    Ninja

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                    • #11
                      Re: 25-Man instances...

                      There is nothing more glorious and simultaneously more painful than hearing four rogues yell over TS at the same time "(*&&^ I MISSED MY KICK"

                      ...

                      and then wiping.

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                      • #12
                        Re: 25-Man instances...

                        I want a link for the next time yells about his kicks plz ;) <3

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                        • #13
                          Re: 25-Man instances...

                          I guarantee the last thing you ever want to hear is me yelling =P

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                          • #14
                            Re: 25-Man instances...

                            Originally posted by Arkamis View Post
                            At first they all start hitting a well geared tank for about 1.5k (when they're all up).

                            When you get to only #5 standing, it hits for 3.5-4k.

                            Now, some things to note: the shadowbolt volley does in fact increase in damage as well as the melee. Also, the Channelers are Boss level mobs. As a result, crushing blows are on the table as is a lvl 73 hit check.

                            Make sure your rogues are not slacking on their hit gear or you will be missing critical interrupts.
                            Come to think of it, Ark, a rogue would have to be slacking on hit gear to a ridiculous extent to even have a possibility of *missing* a kick. Special attacks, of which Kick is one, are not subject to the dual-wield hit penalty. So assuming 5/5 in Precision (which all raiding rogues should have, honestly), we only need about 64 hit rating to make such attacks unable to miss, assuming a 9% chance to miss against level 73 mobs. You can easily get that, even with Outland greens. Of course we still have to worry about dodges (and parries/blocks if you're silly enough to be attacking from the front), which are completely luck of the draw.
                            Ninja

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                            • #15
                              Re: 25-Man instances...

                              Well since there is a static 1% miss and 1% crit that can never be removed its possible even with the best of gear.

                              Only a 1:100000000 chance though. Go buy yourself a lotto ticket Ark ;)
                              My sanity is not in question...
                              It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


                              Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



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