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  • Priority for Warrior Gear

    It has been recommended by several people who come to TG from other guilds with end-game experience that we adopt the relatively common practice of giving priority for gear drops to our MT and MT alternate (that would me ( MT) and Phantom (MT alternate)).

    In plain English, this would mean the MT/MT alternate get first claim on the Might (Tier 1) set pieces...and then later on Wrath (Tier 2) as we get there. The idea is to completely outfit MT 1 and then MT 2 to enable them to gain the benefits from the full set.

    The logic for this is that success in end-game absolutely requires that the MT (or two or three) be able to stand in with the boss and take a beating while holding aggro away from the rest of the raid. When the tank(s) go down (or the healers keeping the tanks alive), the encounter is a wipe.

    Gearing up the tank(s) is a critical key to success, regardless of whether we have priority for drops. Without priority, it will take longer.

    Up until now, the guild's practice has NOT been for priority on drops for the MT roles. Informally, some warriors have passed when a Might piece has dropped in favor of Phantom or me. We had a brief discussion of this topic with the guild officers last night with the upshot being twofold:
    1. It makes sense to have priority for the tanks...BUT
    2. It should be discussed and generally agreed-to within the warrior class. None of us (me included) has any interest in creating some sense of favoritism or unfair treatment.

    This thread is specifically created to address point #2 above. I'm looking for feedback and reactions from the other warriors.

    Here's my 2 cents...

    - If we go the priority route for the MT/MT alternate and the other warriors are feeling shafted, we haven't made a good choice for the guild...and this is ALL ABOUT THE GUILD!!!

    - I think if the tanks have better armor faster, then we will be better able to advance into end-game faster and with fewer wipes. That means more fun and more loot all around.
    - The alternative is that we continue to use DKP to "round-robin" the Might armor drops...but this will take far longer to get the tanks their set pieces.

    - If we go the priority route for the MT/MT alternate, we could wind up granting more than one epic per night (if the gods of droppage smile on the warrior class) to the MT/MT alternate.

    - As you would guess, a CRITICAL element in this program is keeping the MT/MT alternates in the guild. It is a painful blow to have a guild-outfitted MT leave. FWIW, I'm here. This is my home. Removing my TG tattoo would be too painful:icon20: Phantom feels the same way.

    - Beep's current state of armor...I have 5 of the 8 Might pieces, needing only legs, shoulders and helm.

    So...what do you think? Is this a good idea???
    Beep


    Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

  • #2
    Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

    Well, if we are serious about endgame, then the ones taking the beating up front better have the best gear possible.

    Get a list together of what our MTs need, and get them kitted out.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

      I would love to see Beep and I geared to the nines so we can better stand up to these bosses. But as Beep said I don't want the other warriors to feel left out and shafted. I will only do this if we have 100% cooperation from the other warriors.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

        I'm all for it, however, wrath does have a few DPS elements in it, so I think it'd be fair to have discussions about that when we start seeing those drop. The first two set bonuses, and slightly the third, would benefit a dps warrior just as much as an MT.

        Gear is gear, it'll drop again I guess. And us dps warriors are used to getting the butt-end of things, don't worry.

        Brought to you by General Mills... Ragnar-Os! The only cereal with the Molten Core!
        BY FIBER BE PURGED!! TASTE THE FLAVORS OF SULFURON!
        TWO SCOOPS, EXECUTUS! TWO SCOOPS

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        • #5
          Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

          I have no problems with this proposal, and would gladly defer to the MT.

          Questions:
          Does this only apply to tier1 and tier2 set gear?
          What about obvious "tank" specific drops? ex: high +def gear or uber shields
          Do these drops count against DKP?
          What happens when our MTs are near completion with tier1, and a tier2 piece drops?

          --Duck
          Uglyduck - Spec varies - Currently Prot
          MMORPG = Many Men Online Role-Playing as Girls

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          • #6
            Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

            Beep ( our MT ) has 5/8 of teir 1.. so with the (dont quote me on this) chest shoulders and pants.. being the other 3 he needs... so he is kinda close to wraping up with his might set
            powered by Windows 7

            . . . .

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            • #7
              Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

              Originally posted by Chair
              Beep ( our MT ) has 5/8 of teir 1.. so with the (dont quote me on this) chest shoulders and pants.. being the other 3 he needs... so he is kinda close to wraping up with his might set
              Beep needs legs, shoulders and helm.
              Beep


              Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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              • #8
                Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

                Originally posted by duck
                I have no problems with this proposal, and would gladly defer to the MT.

                Questions:
                Does this only apply to tier1 and tier2 set gear?
                What about obvious "tank" specific drops? ex: high +def gear or uber shields
                Do these drops count against DKP?
                What happens when our MTs are near completion with tier1, and a tier2 piece drops?

                --Duck
                All good questions, Duck.

                Since this is a "new" pathway for thinking about this question, I'll respond in sequence.

                Does this only apply to tier1 and tier2 set gear?
                I haven't thought further than these two sets, and my first-hand knowledge of BWL is limited. I think the principle applies no matter where...that the MT and MT Alternate ("MTA"), if properly outfitted, will enable more successful raids to occur sooner.

                What about obvious "tank" specific drops? ex: high +def gear or uber shields
                So far as I'm concerned (back to principle again), the priority is applicable for the tanking gear--the Tier 1 and 2 (and beyond) sets plus the really good shields (e.g. [item]Drillborer Disk[/item]) or items that are tanking oriented.

                Do these drops count against DKP?
                I assumed that they WOULD count against DKP. This would put the MT and MTA into a more or less permanent DKP hole, but that's because they would have the gear.

                What happens when our MTs are near completion with tier1, and a tier2 piece drops?
                That's a super question! The 8 piece set bonus for Might gives +15% threat bonus for sunders. If I have the full set and upgrade to a Wrath piece, then I lose the final set bonus but gain the stats of upgrade piece. I go back to the principle idea--outfitting the MT and MTA with the set pieces as quickly as possible.

                Now...a caveat...I've offered my thinking on this to advance the discussion. I'm NOT trying to impose my will on the group or anything like that. Phantom and I have chatted about this many times. We are of the opinion that unless the warriors are in agreement on this, it's not worth the turmoil to impose it on the group. We are all about wanting what's best for the guild.

                If the consensus is to keep the existing DKP system (with priority strictly determined by DKP points), then we'll do it that way. The downside to that is that it will take longer for the MT and MTA to get geared, with the expectation that our progress will be slower. We trade "speed" to get "fair".

                Alternatively, if the consensus is to give priority to the MT and MTA, then the guild should expect faster guild progress, but the other warriors will have to be comfortable with a slower pace for their own Tiered Setpieces. We trade "fair" to get "speed".

                A "constant" assumption is that the MT and MTA will be consistent attendees at raids...especially after getting the gear. There is NO benefit to having them geared up and idle. If it's any comfort, Beep is #2 in total DKP earned and Phantom is #12 for the entire guild. That indicates that we are among the "faithful" in attendance since you get DKP only by being present for Epic Drops.

                FWIW, here are the top 20 in total DKP EARNED...Thank you and Gratz to this group!! Their faithful attendance is a key part of our guild success in end-game raiding.
                1. Gaviin
                2. Beep
                3. Jandreyn
                4. Luna
                5. Ricca
                6. Shalthazar
                7. Friolator
                8. Celltar
                9. Arkamis
                10. Ogi
                11. Halten
                12. Phantom
                13. Fiela
                14. Zeddzorander
                15. Doofey
                16. Ashenhart
                17. Tarenth
                18. Kittywampus
                19. Crebis
                20. Stendal
                Beep


                Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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                • #9
                  Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

                  i should be on that list >.< (chirps dkp transfered to chair doesnt show up for some reason)
                  powered by Windows 7

                  . . . .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

                    In the end, Zero Sum equalizes, even if the Main Tanks are outfitted first, Might armor will continue dropping after they're outfitted.

                    I'm not playing a Warrior, and this is a warrior specific question. However if there was some reason for a Rogue to need an entire set before the rest, in order for the raids to succeed, I would support it.

                    Chair, your not on the list cuz yer n00b.
                    RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

                    Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

                    I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

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                    • #11
                      Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

                      Well i thought about it long and hard and i think it will be best for the GUILD..It wouldnt be like the other warriors wont be getting anything because as beep and phantom has the pieces that drop the others will be getting as well. It will also keep the added warriors that come in from getting the gear and i rather not see a once time joined warrior get a piece (0 dkp or not ) that a main tank can use...
                      Candrice 63 Warrior
                      Ricca 70 Rogue
                      Machelle 70 Mage
                      Enya 74 Druid

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                      • #12
                        Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

                        The only other items I can think of than tier 1/tier 2 pieces would be the epic shields and weapons you could see off a few of the bosses. I know that shield of Hakkar's ([item]Aegis of the Blood God[/item]) will probably get tossed at Beep and the other tanks without question.

                        Anyhow, I support this idea fully. It is a sound idea and would benefit the guild to have fully epiced tanks instead of warriors with might scatter piecemeal. Of course, the next part of the equation would be to gear out main healers so they can keep up with the tanks.

                        That brings up a rather interesting question that branches off of the original topic: When do the 'set completion' rules come into effect for the tier 1/tier 2 pieces of armor?

                        I know Fiela, Ark, and Luna (off the top of my head) have a great deal of their Tier 1 pieces and the negative DKP to show for it. When are we going to start handing them the pieces regardless of DKP just so they can get that 8 piece bonus? And no, this is not just an attempt to kick Fiela to -100 DKP so we can laugh at her. I'm pretty sure she'll do that on her own.
                        My sanity is not in question...
                        It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


                        Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



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                        • #13
                          Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

                          To respond to Halten's post - Wrath does have some appealing qualities to a dps warrior, but if the MT doesn't stay up in a fight because he doesn't have the best gear possible, then other, even less geared members of the raid will become the main tank. We know that dps warriors can't hold aggro as well as Prot. spec. warriors, so the odds that a well outfitted dps warrior could pull the aggro off a high-dps clothie after the MT has gone down is pretty low.

                          Look at it this way. If you have the dkp to get an item of wrath before Beep or Phantom, you'll only be putting it off for two peices of each. The third time an item drops, you will still have the dkp + much more from the other peices dropping, and that means you have your pick. Phantom already has the hatchet-head, so you only need to wait for 1 more drop of that to be eligable.

                          I know it's not an ideal situation to give anybody preference over what they earned, but if the MT stays up, we all have more loot to squabble over. If we didn't have such good MTs now, we wouldn't even be thinking about the upcoming wrath drops.
                          Anahlahna and Friends

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                          • #14
                            Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

                            I agree. Outfitting Beep and Phantom is in everyone's best interest and I would have no qualms deferring on a piece one of you needs.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Priority for Warrior Gear

                              Originally posted by Anah
                              To respond to Halten's post - Wrath does have some appealing qualities to a dps warrior, but if the MT doesn't stay up in a fight because he doesn't have the best gear possible, then other, even less geared members of the raid will become the main tank. We know that dps warriors can't hold aggro as well as Prot. spec. warriors, so the odds that a well outfitted dps warrior could pull the aggro off a high-dps clothie after the MT has gone down is pretty low.

                              Look at it this way. If you have the dkp to get an item of wrath before Beep or Phantom, you'll only be putting it off for two peices of each. The third time an item drops, you will still have the dkp + much more from the other peices dropping, and that means you have your pick. Phantom already has the hatchet-head, so you only need to wait for 1 more drop of that to be eligable.

                              I know it's not an ideal situation to give anybody preference over what they earned, but if the MT stays up, we all have more loot to squabble over. If we didn't have such good MTs now, we wouldn't even be thinking about the upcoming wrath drops.

                              I didn't mean that I would take pieces of Wrath over Beep or Phantom, I was just throwing out a point that may have to be brought up again when wrath starts to drop all over.

                              Oh, and I'm specced to get the extra aggro :):):)

                              I support this idea all the way, the less they die, the less we die. Simple as that.

                              Brought to you by General Mills... Ragnar-Os! The only cereal with the Molten Core!
                              BY FIBER BE PURGED!! TASTE THE FLAVORS OF SULFURON!
                              TWO SCOOPS, EXECUTUS! TWO SCOOPS

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