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  • Warrior Chat 4

    Seemed like it might be time to start a new thread for warrior stuff.

    1. I've been thinking about the Burning Crusade Expansion Pack and its emphasis/switch to smaller raids (10-25 man). While none of us really knows what that will demand, it seems to me that it will place a big emphasis on players being really strong in their roles, much as it is for lower level instances with smaller parties. The implication for warriors is that tanking is the KEY role to fill, with similar implications for priests to be efficient, effective healers. In the "rock, paper, scissors" game designed by Blizzard, it's not clear what role hybrids will play. They won't disappear from the game, but it's less clear to me how that will work. So here's the thing...what's the role of DPS warriors in these raids if the key is to have uber tanks? Will rogues "specialize" as the main melee DPS'rs?...and...even though Pally's will be getting some love to make them more effective tanks, is that their "highest and best use"? I don't know the answers to these questions, but thought we could chat about the possibilities.

    2. Additional gear for warriors. As we "mature" in MC and begin our shift to BWL, we will be starting to outfit more of the guild with FR gear, including warriors. You can expect a movement of mats from the guild bank to all guildies, including warriors. Rogues and Warriors are the most "needy" for FR since both classes have to stand in melee range pretty much all the time. I will endeavor to make the distribution fair, and we'll initially look to the DKP earned totals as a proxy for priority...more raiding translates to more need for effective FR. Right now, that puts Halten as next in line for mats needed to make FR gear (I'm recommending [item]Dark Iron Helm[/item] and [item]Dark Iron Gauntlets[/item] to start. Most classes other than Warriors and Rogues will only get one FR item, BTW.) We'll continue the process to help outfit you but it WILL take time. I'll update you as I am able.
    Beep


    Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

  • #2
    Re: Warrior Chat 4

    Beep,

    That's an excellent discussion point. Blizzard has to be aware that there are a ton of Fury and DPS warriors out there. With the right gear they can push out dps that rivals that of rogue yet they wear plate and can tank as needed. I've got to believe that when instances like MC and BWL were designed Blizz didn't think that 20% of the raid might be made up of warriors. Perhaps this is their way of dealing with a number of issues, mainly:
    1. The crippling lag of 40 person instances
    2. The over abundance of dps warriors
    3. The need to force greater class balance and individual performance.
    4. The desire to enhance the role of the MT.

    I think the reality for the expansion is that the Prot warriors will be highly sought after and we'll be using our alts a lot more. I could easily see a scenario where we raid with no more than 2 warriors. I'm not enamored with the Prot spec because it renders our class functionally useless for anything other than tanking. Then again, I guess every class has the burden of picking their main spec and living with it.

    I'm all set on the FR gear, but a suggestion if I might. I'd recommend our warriors go with the Dark Iron Legplate rather than the gloves. Applying 2 librams will give you an additional 40 FR as opposed to just the 28 you get from the gloves.
    “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

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    • #3
      Re: Warrior Chat 4

      Bear, I'd be happy with any new FR gear, I'm not really going to be picky about it. :P

      Brought to you by General Mills... Ragnar-Os! The only cereal with the Molten Core!
      BY FIBER BE PURGED!! TASTE THE FLAVORS OF SULFURON!
      TWO SCOOPS, EXECUTUS! TWO SCOOPS

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      • #4
        Re: Warrior Chat 4

        jeesh.. we should rename this forum to 'warrior chat forum' cause the past 8/10 threads are warriors =P jk
        powered by Windows 7

        . . . .

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        • #5
          Re: Warrior Chat 4

          Originally posted by Chair View Post
          jeesh.. we should rename this forum to 'warrior chat forum' cause the past 8/10 threads are warriors =P jk
          It's only because we're one of the few classes that actually has to pay attention and be awake during a raid :P
          “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

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          • #6
            Re: Warrior Chat 4

            Originally posted by Chair View Post
            jeesh.. we should rename this forum to 'warrior chat forum' cause the past 8/10 threads are warriors =P jk
            Hey Chair...any other class can have a thread here...it's just that warriors enjoy the full exercise of their massive intellect in witty, relevant and clever dialogue.:icon20:
            Beep


            Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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            • #7
              Re: Warrior Chat 4

              meh... big words... need more INT... BUFF PLZ.. /brain sploded
              powered by Windows 7

              . . . .

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              • #8
                Re: Warrior Chat 4

                Originally posted by Halten View Post
                Bear, I'd be happy with any new FR gear, I'm not really going to be picky about it. :P
                Yeah, actually I've revised my recommendation to make it [item]Dark Iron Helm[/item] and [item]Dark Iron Leggings[/item] since each of those can also have a +20 FR added from a libram (as Bear correctly pointed out).
                Beep


                Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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                • #9
                  Re: Warrior Chat 4

                  Anything's fine with me, Beep :)

                  Brought to you by General Mills... Ragnar-Os! The only cereal with the Molten Core!
                  BY FIBER BE PURGED!! TASTE THE FLAVORS OF SULFURON!
                  TWO SCOOPS, EXECUTUS! TWO SCOOPS

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                  • #10
                    Re: Warrior Chat 4

                    I have been thinking about this for a bit since you posted it, and I wanted to throw out some thoughts I had on the BC impacts.

                    Personally, as a priest, where you pretty much are dictated to what you will be (it is very rare that you see guilds looking for Shadow Priests), I know the pain you are speaking of, but I also know that I would rather run an instance with a good player over a good talent spec any day. With the additional talents for the 10 levels, maybe it becomes more feasible for a DPS warrior to have points in Prot for when they have to tank? If not, who cares!

                    This is one of the reasons why I hate the "standard" builds that everyone puts so much faith in, because, personally, I really believe that a good player, playing their way, can overcome any limitations that a specific build creates for them. So a DPS warrior won't make as good of a tank as a Prot warrior, they still make a better tank than than anyone else because they have the abilities to hold aggro, they just can't take as much of a beating as the Prot tanks can, so what.

                    Play how you like, what's the point of playing the game if you can't play it how you want to.

                    I will gladly have any of our warriors as a tank in any group I am in, cause I know the warriors we have know how to do their job and adjust to the role they are needed for.

                    /cheer warriors
                    Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

                    | | |

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                    • #11
                      Re: Warrior Chat 4

                      Sajier, I think we all agree that skill>spec>gear.

                      Having said that, I think it comes back to role specialization to optimize performance.

                      We don't yet know where the talent trees will take us, but I'm guessing that Protection Spec tanks will still be the most effective aggro magnets that can take a beating and keep the other classes doing what they do best.

                      If we speculate that Arms/Fury DPS warriors can use the extra 10 talent points to gain some Protection Skills to improve their value, that is pretty much the same as saying Disc/Holy priests can use their next 10 points to move into the Shadow tree. They CAN, but it will likely leave some very needful healing talents untouched.

                      Please understand, I'm not putting down any class or talent spec, but the shape of the game suggests MORE specialization rather than less...at least for the classes that lean toward specialized roles (warriors, priests, mages, warlocks, Rogues). Paladins, Shamans and Druids will all have tougher choices, IMO.
                      Beep


                      Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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                      • #12
                        Re: Warrior Chat 4

                        Sajier,

                        The interesting thing about the Prot tree is that if spec'd in a somewhat normal fashion it makes the healers job a whole lot easier. Much of the Prot tree is focused on damage mitigation and survivability. Sure there are a aggro management buffs but I think the strength truly lies in the "staying alive" attributes.

                        I absolutely agree that the strength of the player is as important or perhaps more important than the spec. I've tanked the same bosses in MC before as a pure DPS build and managed to survive most of the encounters. What I lost was the ability to minimize the crits, crushing blows and 1 shot kills. It also put a TON more pressure on my healers because if was possible to go from 90% health to 15% health in about 2 seconds.

                        Thanks for the kind words though. I think I speak for all the warriors when I say that we take great pride in keeping everyone else from getting hit. :)

                        Except for that Halten guy, he just wants to kill stuff :P
                        “Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook

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                        • #13
                          Re: Warrior Chat 4

                          Hey now! I kill stuff only when you guys says its ok for me to!


                          HALTEN SMASH!

                          Brought to you by General Mills... Ragnar-Os! The only cereal with the Molten Core!
                          BY FIBER BE PURGED!! TASTE THE FLAVORS OF SULFURON!
                          TWO SCOOPS, EXECUTUS! TWO SCOOPS

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                          • #14
                            Re: Warrior Chat 4

                            Beep,
                            What I am saying is that I think that a DPS Warrior is still a better tanking option than a Paladin or anyone else, because they have the abilities to draw and hold aggro, even if they aren't as effective as a Prot warrior because they don't have the mitigation abilities that they do. I guess I am a firm believer that in the end, if you aren't playing how you want to, its not worth playing, and I hope this change in the raid style doesn't force all our DPS warriors to become Prot Warriors if they don't want to.

                            I do understand what you are saying though, BC does seem to be driving certain builds, and that kinda bugs me, I like the variety that the game provides with the differing specs, if they keep this up, everyone will be cookie cutter like EQ was, and thats just not cool.

                            Besides, I still feel dirty from a couple nights ago when I saw Halten with a shield, it scared me, I thought the world was ending. Please don't let that be the way it is all the time! :)
                            Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

                            | | |

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                            • #15
                              Re: Warrior Chat 4

                              I wanna melt faces!
                              Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
                              Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
                              ...and other distractions of various levels.

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