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Mage Concerns in the upcoming patch and BC

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  • Mage Concerns in the upcoming patch and BC

    Alright guys, I've spoken with a few of you, but for all of our mages, or those who take an interest in it, Mages are recieving a few big changes shortly in the upcoming patch, and most of them have not been mentioned in patch notes. (and they're not good news)

    The first thing is, if anyone hasn't read about it, the changes to AoE spells. All instant AoE spells are going to now begin to decrease in damage when hitting large groups of enemies. Reportedly, they are increasing the +dmg coefficient of some of these instant spells, but i didn't notice a change in my limited time testing on the PTRs. From what I hear, basically, every spell will recieve a "damage cap". For example, if Cone of Cold gets a damage cap of 5500 (not finalized, but one of the numbers i saw tossed around), then it will do it's normal damage, up until the number of targets would make that damage go above it's cap, and it would then do 5500/(# of targets). The cap is intended to start taking effect at roughly 10 targets, depending on damage gear.

    This is going to be a bit of a problem in larger AoE sections, such as the Supression room, and, eventually, Nef's skellie armies. However, it ought not be too much of a problem, just something we'll need to adapt to.

    Second, and this one is mage only, But our Counterspell is being put on the Global Cooldown. This is going to provide us some serious pvp issues but not really any raiding concerns. Any class with a 1.5 second heal or CC will be able to sneak it in, if we cast any fears and flash heals are going to be an even bigger problem for us. Also, Warlocks with the new 41 point demo pet will eat us alive..Intercept will force us to burn blink, and the GCD will prevent us from stopping the incoming fear, unless we just let them fear us anyway, hoping the pet breaks it on damage. Needless to say, this is going to be a problem for mages fighting caster classes..something we already have difficulty with.

    The third major change is Ignite. Previously, ignite worked in a special, unique way. If you crit with a fire spell, ignite adds 40% of the crit damage, as a DoT, over 2 ticks. Meaning a 2k fireball crit would net two ticks of 400 damage. Currently, a second crit while they are ignited, stacks the damage, and resets the timer. So a second 2k fireball crit, would mean a 400 tick, the fireball hit, then two ticks of 800. This ability to build up extra damage with increased crits was a tradeoff for the fact that it came over time, and required luck. However, multiple mages could build up one stack for a high DoT.

    Now, ignite will be individualized...each mage getting their own stack. In addition, you no longer recieve extra damage for rolling ignites. With the previous example of two 2k fireball crits, you'd now get a tick of 400, and then the extra damage of 400 remaining, is split between the next two stacks, netting 2 ticks of 600 each. This means that rolling in fact hurts more than helps, as it just stretches out the time till you recieve your damage, without the potential for getting more out of it. This is a major blow to Fire mage's raid DPS. It also is now longer able to gain double benefits from some effects...previously, for example, if the fire spell did an extra 10% damage from Curse of the Elements, the ignite would do 40% of the increased spell's crit damage, and then gain 10% itself. This is more of a bugfix though, and seems logical.

    In other, more mage specific issues: We currently are still suffering from some severe flaws in our new talents. Our Empowered Fireball talent is likely the weakest of them, out of all the classes, and Fire's 41 point talent, Dragon's Breath, is a nice damage ability and stun...but comes with a tradeoff shares a cooldown with Cone of Cold, which is a really big blow for people looking for AoE damage. In frost, we've still got a couple of absolute deadweight talents, though by all accounts our Water Elemental is a very potent new tool. The new Arcane is quite a good tree (Siulung is going to be scary soon), with it's crit bonus, and the int-> +dmg Mind Mastery talent, but slow still seems a bit too expensive, a bit too deep, to be of worth to mages who aren't going that deep for other reasons. We'll see more of arcane's potential once Arcane Blast is available.
    Last edited by ZariusZer0; 11-25-2006, 01:05 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Mage Concerns in the upcoming patch and BC

    Bump and addition: I left out another point, which is going to be a hindrance in mage Raiding. We are having our aggro reduction talents reduced in effectiveness. Frost and Fire, which each have 30% reduction right now, are being reduced to 10%. ARcane is keeping i'ts 40% reduction. This means aggro will be touchier. Our new invisibility is an Aggro Dump, by dropping us out of combat (bout the only thing it actually does right!), but takes 8 seconds to fade, and we won't have it till level 68. So Aggro will be more of a concern for us mages again. Frosties, like me, will still have IceBlock in an emergency, and Arcane, like Siulung will still keep their low threat (did i mention how much of a beast he's going to be?). And I guess, looking on the brightside of the ignite change, aggro will be spread to each mage, Fire won't be pulling as much aggro...though it's still going to be losing damage from a weaker ignite mechanic.

    And, speaking of invisibility, it's currently about as weak an ability as they could make it. With a 5 minute cooldown, 20 second duration, 8 second fade and the "paper bag" effect it has, it's only real usages seem to be as an aggro dump, and letting us do one OoC only it breaks as soon as we do anything but move...including being healed by an ally. So basically, i'ts going to be used like a delayed Feign Death and Vanish combination, in some ways..allowing a mage to remove themself from combat and vision, but, unfortunately, also disallowing them to do anything during it's duration


    • #3
      Re: Mage Concerns in the upcoming patch and BC

      Those 'aggro reduction' talents were just recently added. When I mean recently I really do mean recently. What was it...patch 1.11 or 1.12? The reduction of those talents shouldn't really change things for most mages.

      As for invisibility? Its vanish...for mages. Live with it :P You basically get 20 seconds to manuver yourself into a position of superiority either during, before, or after a fight.

      For every 'nerf' there is a reason for the change and and buff to compliment it.
      My sanity is not in question...
      It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

      Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.


      • #4
        Re: Mage Concerns in the upcoming patch and BC

        I know the aggro reduction talents were just added. Hence why i said it was going to be "touchier" again. It's not going to make us pull aggro on every fight, but we'll need to be watching closer again, is all.

        The invisibility? It's not vanish for mages at all. Maybe if it didn't have the fade, or didn't make us unable to see anything, then sure, it would be vanish for mages...but as it is, it's quite a subpar ability for almost all uses. I know they were afraid of making it too powerful, and will likely buff it later on, as the feedback for buffing a weak ability is far better than that of nerfing a good one. But in it's current state...very very weak.


        • #5
          Re: Mage Concerns in the upcoming patch and BC

          As always, aggro is a touchy subject, yet there is at least one trinket that helps, and attention to the rate of dmg. Critical hits for frost can be troublesome, but other changes in BC may mitigate this as well. Additionally, except in solo and perhaps pvp (wherein I-r-noob), dmg and aggro must be viewed in the context of the current group and fight. For example, there are warriors I cant pull a mob from and some I might as well go to lvl 3 spells. For mages the challenge in PVE is trying managing healing taken as well. This is a small problem in most big raids, as you can expect little, yet in upcoming 5 mans will be critical. For fun, run Scarlet strath and check your healing taken, hopefully it will be less than 5%, or no better than a 1:4 of healing taken to dmg done. In general, the groups I've done 5 man's with like the challange of moving along at a pace just at the good side of the margin of death, with good humor and not pushing each other beyond "fun". There is, additionally, the interesting thing about mages backing up, but I'll stay that for another day.





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