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  • Karazhan AAR

    This thread is to discuss thoughts after Karazhan. What do we need to change, what were your observations?

    Here are my observations

    Maiden:
    No HoTs on pull. However once tank has Agg, stack them to the high heavens.
    Need to let solid aggro be established before any damage starts. We had several times where aggro wasn't firmly established.
    Repentance timer on Big Wigs isn't quite right. I am going to try to figure out what the difference in timers is.
    You can set up before the pull at your locations, as long as you are on the wall.

    Moroes:
    Got unlucky that we lost our adds from Friday. 3 people who can cleanse shackle is bad.
    Need to find a more reliable way to keep tanks up on initial pull. I was slow tonight which didn't help, but need to handle the crushing blows better. Maybe pot/healthstone as the initial heals?

    So what do we need to change, or what do you think we are doing right?
    Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

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  • #2
    Re: Karazhan AAR

    Observations and additions from a hunter stand point:

    Trash:
    -It made pulls easier when the spider packs were flared and targets assigned before hand. Either have a warlock with a felhunter (paranoia stealth detection) or have a human mage pop perception before a pull to make sheeping easier if a hunter isn't there. Things had a habit of going down hill when we used the 'pull first, try to catch mobs out of stealth as they're killing clothies later' strategy on the initial pulls.
    -Warlock enslave with the demon hounds made killing them a lot smoother. My suggestion is keep the hound till the end then have an ice trap under it before enslave breaks. Demon breaks enslave and falls into trap giving tanks time to hit with taunt or growl or even a stun to get it under control. Then again, we weren't having problems with the hounds in the first place. The same strategy could be used on the concubines if we get adds and they are enslaveable however.

    Attuman:
    -Misdirection needs to be kept until Attuman mounts up to ensure the aggro sticks. If two hunters are present (yeah, like when is that going to happen) then the first hunter should blow it when Attuman appears to give to warrior tank and second should be blown when he mounts. The first can be reused to keep aggro stuck firmly on the tank because the fight is rather long, but towards the tail end of the fight. If you have the trinket then you should trinket on the horse to get it down faster because your trinket will be off cooldown before the fight ends.

    Maiden:
    -Pets are useless and so are traps for this fight due to the limitations on melee (holy wrath) and the constant damage (repentence to ranged and concecrates to melee).
    -Warlock tank needed to suck up the holy fire, and maybe fire resist/pots to mitigate some of the damage.
    -Holy pots should be given out to the tank or healers to mitigate the concecrate dance or unlucky holy wrath damage.
    -Paladin(s) try to keep Blessing of Sacrifice on one healer each and that healer should probably stay in the concecrate range. Concecrate damage will be peeled off the healer by the blessing and shared with the paladin which will in turn keep the paladin out of repentence. Once healer's mana is tapped out then switch blessing target with another healer while first regens mana slowly. Paladin could do a solo wisdom buff on the tapped out healer to speed it up if they felt up to it.
    -Might be a better idea to stack HoTs on tank before pull and let hunter pull maiden instead. A full load out will give healers the extra aggro room to start heavy heals right away while tank builds rage and aggro further. AoTH + Trinket using midirection on the tank and Aimed Shot/Multishot/Distracting (or Arcane) will generate an instant 5000-6000 aggro to the tank on the opening salvo. Hunter can then pop rapid fire and ride out the self buffs to stack as much damage as possible on the high and then feign death to drop aggro before going back to viper and regular shot rotation. This should give the tank enough room and heals to keep aggro and let healers keep them up easier. Other DPS should still hold back. If two hunters are present then stack midirection one after the other and DPS can start in right away. Pull would be conducted with everyone waiting at the walls in position (hunter can shoot from the wall). Misdirection is applied to the warrior, self buffs right after, then hunter starts to fire aimed shot while healers apply HoTs. 2 seconds after hunter starts (you can have hunter targeted and wait for the aimed shot cast bar to reach half way if you want) warrior runs towards maiden. Either the warrior will aggro by proximity or aggro by damage, but the maiden will aggro on the warrior and will need to be repositioned at the center. Hunter then finishes their load out and fight proceeds as planned.

    Moroes:
    -Silencing shot should be saved to interrupt heals since other anti-spell abilities are otherwise occupied.
    -Healer(s) need to be pulled away from other mobs so shackles are not dispelled.
    -Need to experiment with flare to see if it pulls Moroes out of stealth before garrot. Probably won't but it would be rather cool if it did because then we could create a 'safe zone' for healers.
    -Might want to also experiment with positioning people with their back to the wall or platform. Since garrot for rogues requires for them to be behind the target we could try to prevent that just like with the panther boss in ZG.
    -The moment Moroes vanishes and the moment he reappears someone needs to call it out over TS. Hunters can feign death during the vanish and drop from the list of possible targets, but if he vanishes before the cooldown is up we remain potental targets. Using feign death the moment he vanishes and popping up the moment he reappears will give us a smaller window of error. Alternatively we could experiment with using feign death and coming up while he's still vanished and determine if just being there is enough to get targeted.
    -Ice mages can ice block out of garrot, paladins can bubble out of garrot, paladins can blessing of protection someone out of garrot, dwarves can use stoneform to remove garrot, druid could rebirth someone killed by the garrot, rogues can vanish during vanish phase to avoid garrot, and hunters can feign death to avoid garrot. You could also use the Luffa trinket to remove it with a 50% success rate...if you didn't vendor it like me. :(
    -Order of preference needs to be established for paladin(s) to burn their blessing of protection ASAP when a target is garroted. Need to balance the need for burning it soon so cooldown would let them get a second target and saving it for a critical target.


    I think we need to work on Maiden a little more, but we just have to fine tune Moroes before we get him down. We were very close but failing to BoP the priest who was garroted first cost us the first run as they had to spend mana healing the damage from the priest.

    Moroes will probably be our next kill and I hope I'm there for it. ^_^



    On a related point it should be noted that the spectral servant outside the servent quarters gives a hint to what the random named beast boss is. Before we killed the spider boss he responded to the conversation option "big ones?" with a message about hearing a big spider in the shadows with the little ones. After we killed the spider boss his message changed to not having any experience with big ones, but hearing about them being there.
    My sanity is not in question...
    It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


    Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Karazhan AAR

      Couple of great points there Tarenth.

      Maiden:
      The idea of using Misdirection on the initial pull of Maiden sounds like an very good idea, though I worry about the positioning that that could cause, definitely worth looking at. I hesitate to say stack HoTs before the pull just because of the issue of a tick hitting before the warrior does. Misdirection might help to combat that, but, that would be something that would need to be considered.

      Holy Protection Pots are a great idea.

      We were setting up to have Valik as our Holy Fire sponge, but just had initial aggro problems. Once we get a solid start, he will be the target of the vast majority of the Holy Fires. I do like the idea of having Fire pot on him to help out a bit.

      Moroes:
      The Garotte is not blockable by positioning, at least from what I have read. Even though it requires him to be at the back, from what I have read, he still will Garotte someone no matter the positioning.

      The BoP issue. You are right, I should have established that early. From now on, the first priest that gets Garrotted will be the BoP target.
      ----------------
      Great stuff lets hear some more!
      Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

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      • #4
        Re: Karazhan AAR

        Just got this off WoWWiki.com:

        Originally posted by WoWWiki.com
        A paladin can cast Blessing of Sacrifice on the tank during Repentance which will break Repentance when the tank takes damage (however as of 2/22/07 this appears to draw agro off the tank and onto the paladin, which may be a bug).
        And a couple other things:

        Originally posted by WoWWiki.com
        It's possible to sprint/charge into melee range after the tank pulls to avoid the Holy Fire.

        NOTE: Since the Holy fire only hits the closest player NOT in melee range, a great strategy is to have a warrior sit the closest while not in melee range, allowing him to use his Spell reflect ability to put Holy fire back on the Maiden.
        Reflecting the Holy Fire would be a great thing, plus a warrior could eat the damage pretty well.
        Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

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        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Karazhan AAR

          Interestingly, there are a wide varity of "movies" from various character points of view. It appears to be a fairly lengthy battle, though in these the aggro seems stay squarely on the melee. In looking closely at several of them from a caster's interest is the amount of dmg going up. One is with a lock doing 3k-4k per spell and dot's of 500-1000 per tick. I know none of our mages approaches those outputs, yet we can have hate issues. Additionally, without that level of damage the battle will clearly wage longer wherein all mana users will reach limits.
          Dewi

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Karazhan AAR

            There are ways to fight above our current gearing. One is with oils and flask. I would hesitate to use normal potions, except perhaps resist ones, since the effects go with death. Oils and flask effects remain after death. There was a time when they left if you left the instance even as a ghost, though this has been fixed. Foods are a cheap addition and though go with death they are cheap to make.

            Dewi

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Karazhan AAR

              If Blessing of Sacrifice works with spell damage then that's why I suggested using the highest rank on a priest and having the priest stay in the holy ground. Since BoS4 splits 104 damage and holy ground does between 200-300 every 3 seconds it would make it completely possible to just toss a renew up when low and have the priest sit out the remaining 100-200 damage after BoS. The BoS would give the paladin 104 damage, but it would also keep them out of repentence which would keep another healer up. In fact using dampen magic could cut that down to almost nothing meaning you'd have a priest free to heal through everything with little maintanance.

              If you want to put BoS on the tank then is should probably be BoS1 so the paladin takes only 45 damage per swing and wouldn't need to be healed as often or frequently. You could use BoS4, but cutting 104 damage from the huge hits would just be a drop in the bucket and might not be worth having to heal the paladin more.

              Another option is to just go all out and throw dampen magic on everyone and stick them in the concecrate. Since repentence does 2000 front loaded damage with the sleep and the holy ground with dampen magic does only 150-200 every 3 seconds then you might take less damage from the holy ground (repentence for 2000 every 30 seconds for 2000 damage or holy ground for 150-200 every 3 seconds for 1500-2000 every 30 seconds). There should be JUST enough room between people on the edge of the holy ground to avoid chaining the holy wrath.
              My sanity is not in question...
              It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


              Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Karazhan AAR

                The issue Tarenth with leaving a priest, or any caster in the aura is that it has a .5 second silence component meaning they can only cast instant spells.

                I have been going with the "priest runs in to the Holy Ground till repentance goes off then backs out" theory, and it worked, but I was putting too much trust in my BigWigs timer, and not waiting till Repentance went off. Its a slight randomization after the 30 seconds, up to 10 seconds afterwards. I think, knowing that, I am more prepared for it next time we do that fight.
                Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

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