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  • To renew or not to renew...

    ... that is the question that bugged me this afternoon.



    From my healing calculator. YMMV. :)

  • #2
    Re: To renew or not to renew...

    One thing to note from experience is that in Karazhan, there are a lot of "random damage" abilities, where a mob will turn, do some damage and then turn back to the MT. These are very good situations for renews (Mallet Throw comes to mind right off the top of my head, or the random bolts that the guys in the Library throw) because damage returns to normal location afterwards.

    Big issue is knowing when its random damage and when its pulled aggro. That takes a bit more getting used to :).
    Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

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    • #3
      Re: To renew or not to renew...

      Originally posted by Sajier View Post
      One thing to note from experience is that in Karazhan, there are a lot of "random damage" abilities, where a mob will turn, do some damage and then turn back to the MT. These are very good situations for renews (Mallet Throw comes to mind right off the top of my head, or the random bolts that the guys in the Library throw) because damage returns to normal location afterwards.

      Big issue is knowing when its random damage and when its pulled aggro. That takes a bit more getting used to :).
      Grid helps with the aggro question - as it shows you who has the aggro - so if it bounces back to the main tank fast you know that a renew is your best option. Personally - unless the mob is nearly dead, I always renew. Stacked renews/hots from multiple healers can save a ton of mana from regular heals.

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      • #4
        Re: To renew or not to renew...

        Project Reality Mini Mod is calling you ....listen...you can hear it in the distance.....

        PRM
        PRM
        PRM





        (Pardon me...I couldn't help myself...We could always use a player like Jep on our servers but all kidding aside...I'm just kidding...I couldn't resist.)
        sigpic
        |TG-1st|Grunt
        ARMA Admin (retired)
        Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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        • #5
          Re: To renew or not to renew...

          I can't stand PRM. Maybe PoE... :p

          The issue with renew is that in comparison with a heal bomb (greater heal), it's just not that mana efficient (even with points in mental agility and improved renew). But it is time efficient- using it in conjunction with other heals gets you out of the FSR sooner so there's more time to regen at your full rate. So if you're in a situation where you're spending too much time in FSR, cut the renews and stick to the more efficient greater heals.

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          • #6
            Re: To renew or not to renew...

            Well I am probably the odd-ball here but I personally don't care for greater heals - especially when healing an entire raid. There just isn't always time to get that big heal off and keep everyone else up too

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            • #7
              Re: To renew or not to renew...

              Knowing what type of heal to use in any given situation is one of the keys to being a good healing. Flash heal has its place, as does GH, but knowing the difference between the time for which usage is absolutely key.

              As my tanks will let you know, I mix my heals a great deal, in certain situations you have to flash heal (dancer packs, Valet's) but on most boss fights, timing a well placed GH (I start casting GH on most bosses while the tank is still full health, then cancel the heal if its not necessary) is by far the most mana efficient. However you have to know when to throw mana efficiency to the wind and keep people alive.
              Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

              | | |

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              • #8
                Re: To renew or not to renew...

                Obviously. Mathematical models such as this are aids, not strategy/class guides. There is more to healing than maximizing mana efficiency.

                But it helps. ;)

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                • #9
                  Re: To renew or not to renew...

                  Originally posted by jepzilla View Post
                  Obviously. Mathematical models such as this are aids, not strategy/class guides. There is more to healing than maximizing mana efficiency.

                  But it helps. ;)
                  Makes you seem smart too! All I know is when something's health goes down, you press a button and it stays alive.


                  Noob shaman ftw!

                  Brought to you by General Mills... Ragnar-Os! The only cereal with the Molten Core!
                  BY FIBER BE PURGED!! TASTE THE FLAVORS OF SULFURON!
                  TWO SCOOPS, EXECUTUS! TWO SCOOPS

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                  • #10
                    Re: To renew or not to renew...

                    Originally posted by Halten View Post
                    Makes you seem smart too!

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                    • #11
                      Re: To renew or not to renew...

                      I believe there are 3 classic healer models that people tend to gravitate towards.

                      1) Stabilizers - Infrequent big slow heal bombs to prop hp up once it has gotten low (lets play the 1% game!)
                      2) Flashers - Frequent small fast heals to keep hp topped off (OMG! 80% health! Heal me!)
                      3) Hot botters - Spaming HoTs on everything to keep everyone up with infrequent fast and slow heals as the situation requires.

                      Priest main healers usually are 1 or 2 with off healers given the option of 3 (just slap renew on everyone and keep it up). Paladins can also vary between those who are stabilizers (holy light bombs) or flashers (flash of light spam). Druids tend to be more towards hot botters due to class construction (lifebloom, rejuv, regrowth), but some also just spam healing touch to be stabilizers.

                      Personally I gravitate towards the stabilizer role since I like droping occasional Gheal1 spells for 1.5k hp and sometimes up rank to the big heal for 5k. I only rarely toss in a renew when I know I'm going to have some difficulty using a lower rank heal to keep someone up and when I do have a renew up I either down rank somemore (Gheal2->Gheal1 or Gheal1->Heal4) to make sure I don't top off (if at 100% your renew tick does nothing) or I set it and forget it. Of course if its myself that has taken damage I usually toss myself a renew or hit binding heal on my target so I get some hp as well.

                      BTW, there used to be only 2 classifications of healers until patch 2.0.1 opened up the third with stacking HoTs. The only time being a Hot Boter would be effective is if you have multiple HoTs (druids) or you're working in purely a support role. If you're going to stack your HoT with heal bombs then to get the most out of it I really suggest you down rank from what you use and use the HoT ticks to make up the difference. Also aim for healing to only 90-95% so your HoT ticks do some healing and aren't wasted.
                      My sanity is not in question...
                      It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


                      Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



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                      • #12
                        Re: To renew or not to renew...

                        I disagree with this Tarenth, as I really do believe any main healer worth his or her salt doesn't gravitate to one of those, they react and use any method necessary based on the current situation. I prefer to GH, but without hesitation will move to chain spamming if DPS on the target increases to quickly. Any healer who doesn't have that capability is doing themselves or their party/raid a great disservice.

                        I am a HoTStabilFlasher and proud of it.
                        Last edited by Sajier; 05-10-2007, 06:36 PM.
                        Sajaman/|TG-Irr|Sajier - WoW Resto Shaman, BF2/BF2142 Assault/Medic

                        | | |

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                        • #13
                          Re: To renew or not to renew...

                          Originally posted by Sajier View Post
                          I disagree with this Tarenth, as I really do believe any main healer worth his or her salt doesn't gravitate to one of those, they react and use any method necessary based on the current situation. I prefer to GH, but without hesitation will move to chain spamming if DPS on the target increases to quickly.
                          grav·i·tate /ˈgrævɪˌteɪt/ –verb (used without object), -tat·ed, -tat·ing.
                          1. to move or tend to move under the influence of gravitational force.
                          2. to tend toward the lowest level; sink; fall.
                          3. to have a natural tendency or be strongly attracted (usually fol. by to or toward): Musicians gravitate toward one another.


                          A preference pretty much shows a gravitation. Other people will say they hate using gheal because its too slow but will switch to heavy healbombs without hesitation if the need arises. I also know a few druids who think repeated use of their healing touches is perverted and would only reach out and touch someone as a last resort. ;)

                          Its kinda like how healers are split between ranking their top stats for end game/group work.
                          +Healing? +Intellect? +Spirit? +Stamina? +Damage/Healing? +Mana/5 Seconds?

                          I personally like +healing -> +mana/5 seconds -> +spirit -> +intellect
                          +Healing because bigger Gheal bombs means more time before needing the next and I can throw out combinations like Renew and a much lower ranked heal bomb to do the same healing and save mana.
                          +Mana/5 seconds because constant mana is a good "JICSH" stat to get plenty of
                          +Spirit because it gives base mana regen out of the 5 second rule (which is what a stablizer tries to stay out of to get back the mana from their last big heal bomb)
                          +Intellect because if I'm getting back my mana at a rate near equal to how I spend it then I won't have to worry about a big mana pool (I had 6k mana in MC with Mirra in blues and full buffs yet rarely run out of mana while keeping up with other healers in effective heals ;) Of course MC is a crappy place to be proud of now, but its the only time I could switch off my hunter)
                          My sanity is not in question...
                          It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.


                          Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.



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                          • #14
                            Re: To renew or not to renew...

                            Well, I don't know if I agree, Sajier. Big, infrequent heal bombs are the most mana efficient strategy and should be what every priest does by default. You're casting your most mana efficient spells, and you're maximizing your mana regen. Experience definitely helps here though- the lower you can comfortably let people's health drop between healing, the less mana you consume. And the less mana you consume, the less chance of the dreaded 'Healer OOM' moment, mid-combat. Ultimately you should be aiming to do this as much as possible.

                            Every five seconds I spend not casting in combat is an extra 3000hp for the tank.

                            Frequent light heals, or stacking HoTs have their place, but I consider these to be extraordinary strategies for use only where necessary. Certainly there'll be situations where they're called for, whether because something has gone very badly or weird fights (like half the boss fights in Shattered Halls), but if you're doing either when you could be using your slow, big heal bombs, you're doing something wrong IMO.

                            Endurance, IMO, is the most important concern in healing.

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                            • #15
                              Re: To renew or not to renew...

                              Originally posted by jepzilla View Post
                              Endurance, IMO, is the most important concern in healing.
                              Heh...well, from a healing TARGET point of view...keeping your target alive is the most important concern. :) A healer with mana left but no tank is not a happy healer.

                              (Lest it be forgotten, my first level 60 character was a healing priest!! I came to tanking only when we discovered that TG needed a tank more than we needed a priest. This is back when we played WoW with quill pens, illuminated by candles!!:row__523:
                              Beep


                              Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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