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Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light button?)

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  • Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light button?)

    I was looking at the WWS reports for our raid last thursday, And i've decided to open this up to discussion with my fellow paladin healers. (And any other healers that would like to weigh in.)

    Generally, as far as paladins go, Yotion takes the top healing spot, followed by Luna and myself. In the past, Luna and I were usually switching back and forth in second and third... then there was a long while where she was always ahead of me. (This due mostly to the fact that I refused to play Whack-a-mole. After a while though, i decided that I would download a click-2-cast mod, and started catching up to Luna again.)

    Pre-TBC, I prided myself on how low my Overheal was. I used to sit squarely under 20% OH. Mind you, I was generally using nothing but Holy Light, (my big slow heal) and we were generally fighting bosses that would reduce our tanks to low HP piles of Goo every three seconds.

    Nowadays, I use almost nothing but Flash of light. (which is cheap, casts quickly, and heals about 1800 to 2700 damage. I'm at work, so i can't check all the specifics (And can never remember those numbers when i'm away from my computer) but i'm pretty sure FoL costs about 189 mana, and I get 60% of that when I get a crit. (my crit chance is less than 30% right now. It used to be higher.) I still get quite a few crits though, and I have a fair amount of Mp5. So i can go long fights without losing any mana whatsoever, as long as I DON'T use my big heal. When i start using that, my mana goes down in large chunks, and doesn't recover.

    Generally, I wouldn't ask this, because i'm confident that I know how to play my character, and would argue that any discrepencies in the charts would have to do with me being distracted, or slow, or whatever.

    Thursday night, however, I focused entirely on my healing. I did die in the last fight against Na'whatshisface, but that wouldn't explain the large discrepency between mine and luna's healing. (Let alone mine and Lotions.)
    And I doubt that Gear is the reason either, since Lotion used to have gear that was on par with mine.

    So, Yotion. What's your secret? I understand that sometimes we'll be healing different targets... obviously our heals and presence will be different if you're healing the main tank, and i'm healing the raid, but I'm obviously not performing as best as i could be if i'm 7% below Luna, and... um. i think i was 10% below you.

    (If other healers have suggestions, feel free, but keep in mind the pally healing mechanics are infinitely more simple than yours. We can heal one person at a time... We don't get any splash heal bonus like you guys do.)


    So, let the discussion commence!
    _________________



    I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

  • #2
    Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

    Hey manny, I obviously can't talk for yotion or luna, but...I know a budd (who is also a healadin at the time of this), but he was healing t5 stuff and was ridiculously outhealed by people with roughly the same gear as him, and he's got solid situational awareness and reflexes. He noticed however that a lot of the time (since he was using standard blizzard ui) that he was wasting a lot of time trying to find people that were in range to heal. He got healbot or something and it helped a lot. I assume you use grid, but do you have the mdo for grid that displays expected incoming heals? I know as a healer on that najentus fight it helped a tonne for me b/c I'd see if the person was already being healed up and whatnot so I didn't waste my oh so precious tankadin healing mana.

    Basically, have you thought of using some useful addons, and if so are they as potent as they could be?


    Aestryd 80 Prot Pally / Epimetheus 70 Feral Druid / Yuusei 74 Enhancement Shaman
    Camsmule 70 Fury/Prot Warrior / Tamrissa 70 Affliction Warlock / Aegyn 70 Holy Priest
    Shyff 70 Arcane Mage / Indrus 62 Combat Rogue

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

      Hrmmm well, I don't have an easy answer to my healing madness. I am a rare breed in that I don't use any healing mods. I click a name and choose my heal alternating on the need between flash and the big boy (AOE heals are OP) :) When I am main tank healing I can spam my flash the entire fight without stopping and without even coming close to running out of mana. My big heal uses about 7% of my mana per cast but with my mana/5 running around 240 buffed while casting I can get it back fast enough to mash away on it when needed as well.

      My simple approach on healing is the hiearchy of tanks first then "certain" dps then others as needed. On trash, when someone is hurt I cast a heal, not knowing if someone is casting a heal or not as it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things as I care absolutely zero about overhealing as my mana pool is irrelevant on trash. Some healers focus on certain people in the raid so I keep an eye on the situation with them as we advance with the knowledge that they are "babysitted" of sorts.

      I enjoy the challenge of using zero healing mods as it keeps the game fun. I would have changed specs or gone to a main dps class long ago if I were to go to the easy addon whack-a-mole mode.

      I do use pallypower for buffs and decurse to help with the cleansing as they do come in handy.

      Gear wise, it does play a small part but it won't make or break a healadin. Simply put, all healadins should have the best BADGE gear available as it will carry you into BT. Most, if not all, of my badge gear is superior to the drops in Hijal and SSC.

      Talents are a whole other ball of wax. Many discussions on talents have been made in TGpally chat channel and both have ups and downs. Essentially, the core holy talents are needed and most of the other ones are gravy and can be catered to your liking. It is nice when we have a good mix of talented auras and buffs to go around but this rarely happens.
      Lub it on!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

        Originally posted by Yotion View Post
        Hrmmm well, I don't have an easy answer to my healing madness. I am a rare breed in that I don't use any healing mods.
        Amen to raw, unadulterated skillz!
        70 Priest

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        • #5
          Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

          If this is based on WWS, wasn't trow's log the only one in the mix and we were spread out?...was Wintrow on the other side of the room from you Manny?...or does that mater any now with the increased combat log range.

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          • #6
            Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

            Do you downrank your spells?
            Do you /stopcasting before your heal lands if the target doesn't need it?
            Do you try to account for what other healers tend to do?

            I'm no pally healing expert, but the above are things I feel all healers should take to heart.

            Don't worry too much about your overheal anymore. As long as you aren't consistently hitting 70%, you're fine. There's just too much burst damage in BC too afford to more closely manage your overheal. You always need to be precasting just in case. I tend to sit around 35-40% with no mana problems ever and fairly solid healing numbers.
            70 Priest

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            • #7
              Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

              Originally posted by Wintrow View Post
              Do you downrank your spells?
              Do you /stopcasting before your heal lands if the target doesn't need it?
              Do you try to account for what other healers tend to do?

              I'm no pally healing expert, but the above are things I feel all healers should take to heart.

              Don't worry too much about your overheal anymore. As long as you aren't consistently hitting 70%, you're fine. There's just too much burst damage in BC too afford to more closely manage your overheal. You always need to be precasting just in case. I tend to sit around 35-40% with no mana problems ever and fairly solid healing numbers.

              I'm rather ashamed to say that I don't down rank my heals as often as i used to. For something like 189 mana, I can get a 2500 heal off in about a second, or i can spend 2.5 seconds casting and lay down a 7K heal for something like 800 mana. Since TBC started, I've found that Down ranking doesn't provide very good results (for me personally.) Mostly because none of my heals gain 100% of my +heal to begin with, so the lower levels of Holy light cost more than Flash of light, take longer to cast, and heal roughly the same amount of damage.

              As for stopping casts, I do that if it's a Holy Light cast. If it's a FoL cast, there's no point to stopping it, since I'll just end up waiting for the GC to bugger off instead of being able to cast again right away.

              And of course i'm paying attention to the other healers, as best i can while still being focused on my main healing target. Unfortunately, since we all seem to employ the same tactics (paladins, at least.) I'm not really gleaning any useful information from that. And priests and Shamans don't really help me much, since you're too busy rolling your face across the keyboard to heal 80 people with one spell.

              Aestryd - Believe it or not, I've been avoiding Grid like the plague. Call me old fashioned, but I like having big, useful raid frames. I play on a 21 inch flat panel monitor, so i've got the space to have big clunky bars laying to the right of the screen... Finding the proper range to be is Definately a huge problem for me if i'm raid healing. Even if i know where i'm supposed to be standing, I always seem to miss the person I'm trying to focus on. I will take a look at Grid and it's addon to detect incoming heals... but Xperl does that too. (In big boss fights, It doesn't matter, since I'm usually tasked with a main tank or off tank who's doing nothing but taking damage and receiving heals.)

              Orion - Not sure about the combat range, but even if i assume there are some errors due to range and varying results due to differing readings, This is a historic pattern. I used to be at the top of the pally heap (with only Sacredlord and his 90% Over heals) being above me. Nowadays, I'm number three out of three almost all the time. I'm not saying that i'm dragging the group down, but I'd feel alot better if i was setting the standard, again, instead of trailing along behind.


              As for mod comparisons, the only thing i use currently that could be considered an actual healing mod is my Click2cast mod... and That just shaves a second or two off of my reaction time, since I don't have to move back and forth between my buttons and my raid frames. As i've mentioned, it's 'Hey, that dude is getting healed already' function is pretty much there because i'm too lazy to turn it off.

              I KNOW that the main tank is getting healed. If he wasn't, I'd be too busy hitting my DI button to care about much else.

              :P I love how i'm sitting here having to basically point out that i'm a talentless hack here. laaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.

              Well, assuming i don't get stuck at work tonight, we'll see what happens with the raid. I might just end up taking a good look at Manny's gear and seeing what I can do to change it up a bit to get better numbers in different places.
              _________________



              I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

                Manny- Grid + Clique made a HUGE difference for my healing when I figured out how to use them. Grid is useful for so many reasons, but to me, the most important feature is the range check. When someone is out of range for my heals, they get a colored border around them so I know I can't reach them from my current position. I don't spend any time anymore trying a heal, being out of range, inching up, trying again, lather, rinse and repeat. I know instantly if I should cast on a person of relocate first. This saves me heaps of time, and it doesn't compete with other decisions that need to be made in a split second.

                I, too, rarely downrank my healing spells. I've never found myself to really run out of mana quickly, and in most fights I tend to depend on more bang for my buck. If my fellow pallies have specific recommendations for downranking, I'm all ears.

                Originally posted by Yotion
                It is nice when we have a good mix of talented auras and buffs to go around but this rarely happens.
                Quoted for emphasis! (Even if he didn't mean to actually support my thesis of alternate pally raid specs and the benefits they bring to the raid... ;))

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

                  Manny - that's a great idea to check your gear and mix it up some to see if it has any real effect on things for ya. Some pally's live or die by crit and some go the more "guaranteed" route of mana/5 (I fall in this category, but both routes are beneficial).

                  Luna - I said what I did about auras because I think there is validity in variety but we need to make se we have our basics covered...which we have had for the most part :)

                  Just to throw this out there - I have never downranked any of my spells. ZERO. It doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe back in the old days it was useful but not currently with the way Blizz has developed the game mechanics.

                  Stopping uneccesary big heals - common sense

                  Overheals - irrelevant unless you hit around the 70% mark and even then it might be ok if you are solely main tank healing.

                  Other healers - learn the other habits and consistancy in who typically heals whom in the raid

                  Enjoy your play time and smile as you raid! Don't get too caught up on the numbers...we succeed as a team and fail as a team...who "scores" the most points is irrelevant.

                  I do admire your desire to step it up though...there is always room for this type of attitude and open discussion to help TG progress.
                  Lub it on!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

                    Originally posted by Yotion View Post
                    Just to throw this out there - I have never downranked any of my spells. ZERO. It doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe back in the old days it was useful but not currently with the way Blizz has developed the game mechanics.
                    Perhaps this is true for pallies; I have no room to argue that standpoint. But for priests, down-ranking is crucial in my opinion. I regularly use rank 2 GH and occasionally rank 1 GH. This is a key way to manage overheal and mana efficiency for priests. GH is pretty much the only heal I downrank (Flash Heal too, but I rarely use it).
                    70 Priest

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                    • #11
                      Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

                      Priest downranking is another discussion...take you and your smelly OP aoe heals elsewhere :) hehe
                      Lub it on!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

                        I really feel the need to point out that I miss being a supporting member. These sponsored Adds keep making me miss posts, since I see the banner ad, and assume that there's nothing below it so i just get out of the thread.

                        Yotion - I agree whole heartedly about our need to keep our bases covered. I'm still going to staunchly oppose healing paladins with ret talents :P I'm not saying that they're less effective, i'm just saying we should use the tanks need for Sanctity aura as an excuse to get a really great ret paladin into the raid. I've been paying close attention to the ret pallies in Other raids, and seeing the contributions they make has swayed me into believing that we could really use one.

                        I'm also not to stressed about the numbers. I don't look at WWS and then contemplate Hari-Kari. (Probably a good thing. the only sword I have to throw myself on is my good 'ol Quel Serrar.) I do want to do better though.
                        Truth be told, seeing my overheal so high makes me wonder if I'm needed as a healer, and whether I should look into becoming a Tankadin (or dusting off Delaney and begging Duck to Teach me how to warrior tank.)

                        Or, maybe I should step up and see if Manny can do the Ret thing.

                        But that's a decision that I'm obviously a bit leary of making. Since i'd have to make fun of myself even more.

                        Wintrow - I think we can safely say that Paladins and Downranking are a moot point. If i recall, Anything less than a 3 second spell cast only recieves 75% of your +healing bonus. (probably less for really short casts)

                        Greater heal is a 3 second cast, correct? So even with the reduced healing bonus from downranking for Greater healing, you're still getting almost your full +healing bonus. (which i'm sure is ludicrous for you.)

                        Paladins and their 2.5 second Holy Light only get 75% of their +healing bonus, and downranking that gimps us even more.

                        Since most of the Theorycrafting sites are blocked to me at work, I can only give you the numbers that I see while healing (I have about 1900 +healing, plus a talent that increases that a little bit due to my intellect) but here goes.

                        Holy Light Rank...9? I guess... costs 849 mana, heals about 4700 on a person without Blessing of Light, and who isn't a band-aid warlock or rogue. It can crit for up to about 6900. (my 7K and 8K numbers almost always come from targets that have light or talent increases.)
                        Holy light Rank... 8. (maybe 7... i never remember what rank i use anymore.) costs something like 780 mana, and heals about 3500. (with 5500ish crits)
                        In my mind, thats not a great trade off... considering I can throw out 2 Flash of lights for 350ish mana, and heal more than 5K damage.


                        Essentially, I think that if i don't do something drastic and respec Manny, I'll go hunting for gear. I used to be almost entirely Spell crit based, but as I started picking up tier gear, I lost that, and now i'm a sad, sad hybrid of crit and Mp5. I don't know if Crit is the way to go anymore, since we don't get 100% of our mana back from crits. Maybe I should aim for a mix of Haste and Crit?

                        Any thoughts on that?
                        _________________



                        I'm planning on respeccing to Irritation pretty soon. Granted, I'll lose the burst DPS from Pissing People Off Outright, but I'll get DoT's and higher damage through AoE's.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

                          Originally posted by Manny View Post
                          and who isn't a band-aid warlock or rogue
                          Druids have this talent now also...Nuturing instinct...20% increase to heals done to you while in cat. Now only if that worked in Bear, I'd be a God-like tank.

                          Also to note, Druid Tanks will screw up a healer's overheal% because of our sporadic dodges. I, specifically, am a dodge tank. I built up Dodge and threat and let my Stam stay average. I can easily reach 50% dodge when raid buffed and my idol procs. To healers that are pre-casting, they have no time to cancel a heal. It's just an added benefit that I dodged. If I don't however, their heal lands and all is well...another healer might need to top me off.

                          Don't know if that makes sense.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

                            I'm not sure why you'd go with spell haste as a priority as it seems most of the discussion so far has been about mana efficiency: is there a reason behind stacking spell haste aside from obviously being able to cast faster?


                            Originally posted by Manny View Post
                            I'm still going to staunchly oppose healing paladins with ret talents :P I'm not saying that they're less effective, i'm just saying we should use the tanks need for Sanctity aura as an excuse to get a really great ret paladin into the raid. I've been paying close attention to the ret pallies in Other raids, and seeing the contributions they make has swayed me into believing that we could really use one.

                            At the risk of posting off topic: Manny no one arguing the opposing view had an problems bringing in a decent ret pally, and I in fact stated a few points where a ret pally would a huge boon. However, since we don't have one and sanctity aura would make such a huge difference for the tankadins, I don't understand the staunch opposition to having a willing pally switch to sanc aura, or having ret talents. I do believe that the positives outweigh the negatives in our current situation.

                            Sorry for the off-topic post Manny and everyone else.

                            Resident dog with a bone,


                            Aestryd 80 Prot Pally / Epimetheus 70 Feral Druid / Yuusei 74 Enhancement Shaman
                            Camsmule 70 Fury/Prot Warrior / Tamrissa 70 Affliction Warlock / Aegyn 70 Holy Priest
                            Shyff 70 Arcane Mage / Indrus 62 Combat Rogue

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Paladin Healing Discussion (Or, How quickly do you mash YOUR Flash of Light butto

                              Spell Haste + Lurker Libram + 4 ranks lower on HL = 1.7-1.8s Holy Light for marginally more mana and significantly more HPS than FOL. Personally, with the new spell haste gems, I prefer those over crit gems, since most fights aren't long enough to really necessitate the crit anymore. That, and having "strange" cast time numbers allows for much easier un-syncing of heals. Of course, I don't play the role of healer very often.

                              Unfortunately, with the current state of endgame, Paladin healing is pretty much worthless as it stands. Sunwell bosses do way too much damage to allow FOL to be useful, and the raid damage is borderline absurd. When we do use healing paladins, we generally keep them on main tank duty, and for several situations it's a solo task, or solo + lifeblooms. Nevertheless, paladins really suck right now, and it's just mechanics. We need something to make our healing more versatile, like a 3rd type of heal or an armor buff proc, or something.

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