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  • War Protocol

    We have some newer players joining us in the upcoming game so I thought it was worth creating a topic here to clarify the following statement from the signup topic:

    It is possible to take back to back turns and gain an unfair advantage over another player, especially during a war.

    I'm focusing in on war here simply because it can be the most contentious. But the idea of the above statement is simply that everyone does their best to keep things fair and level. This means both sides in the conflict need to be talking to one another.

    Usually during a war one person will go first in the turn and one person will do their turn after. By doing this we make it turn based and avoid doing 2 turns in a row. Now sometimes it just can't be helped. We certainly don't want anyone losing a turn because they were waiting for the other person. The bottom line is everyone does their best.

    Why are back to back turns so bad? We want to avoid situations like the following:
    • Getting 2 turns of unit movement in before the other play can respond.
    • Attacking a location twice before the other person gets a chance to counter-attack (or do whatever else).
    • Giving promotions to a unit early thus giving them extra health they wouldn't normally have had.
    • Any number of other things which I'm forgetting or probably hadn't even occurred to me. ;)

    Logging in multiple times during a turn can also cause potential problems. I was just reading some rules for a game on CivFanatics and they were actually trying to restrict a person from logging in more than once during a turn. This is certainly the ideal situation because it helps prevent someone from making a mistake or taking advantage of information that they would normally not have had available to them. For example: you go first in the turn, your opponent goes, and then you log in again to adjust build queues and do back of the line troop movement. ;) You also need to be really careful with queuing up movement orders for units if you are logging in out of turn.

    TG is a home for mature gamers. That combined with the sheer complexity of trying to come up with rules for everything are two of the reasons why the sign up topic was kept as vague as it was. I created this topic to help make people aware of the type of situations we want to avoid with the expectation that this will help the game proceed as smoothly as possible. :)

    If anyone else would like to add some no-no type situations to the list please feel free to fire away.

    Bernout

    |TG-MD6|


  • #2
    Re: War Protocol

    Originally posted by Bernout View Post
    Logging in multiple times during a turn can also cause potential problems. I was just reading some rules for a game on CivFanatics and they were actually trying to restrict a person from logging in more than once during a turn. This is certainly the ideal situation because it helps prevent someone from making a mistake or taking advantage of information that they would normally not have had available to them. For example: you go first in the turn, your opponent goes, and then you log in again to adjust build queues and do back of the line troop movement. ;)
    I think that this will benefit the one who's going last in the turn. And seems to me it's not fare. The one who's going last can always react and change order in the same turn. While the one who's going first always have to wait one turn to make changes. Which (also) can cause a disadvantage.
    This would mean I always want to go last ;-).

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: War Protocol

      Originally posted by GrizzlyDuu View Post
      I think that this will benefit the one who's going last in the turn. And seems to me it's not fare. The one who's going last can always react and change order in the same turn. While the one who's going first always have to wait one turn to make changes. Which (also) can cause a disadvantage.
      This would mean I always want to go last ;-).
      Hmm....I'm not sure I buy that except maybe on the first turn of the war. ;) You're always reacting to what your opponent did previously.

      Bernout

      |TG-MD6|

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: War Protocol

        Would most of you agree that the "Attacker" should go first? It seems like this would be the most realistic, and in most circumstances this is the person who declared war, right?




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        • #5
          Re: War Protocol

          Would most of you agree that the "Attacker" should go first? It seems like this would be the most realistic, and in most circumstances this is the person who declared war, right?
          This is correct, with one tricky point involving back-to-back turns just prior to the declaration of war.

          Situation: Year X. No war between Civ1 and Civ2. Either can go first.

          YearX.
          Civ1 takes turn.
          Civ2 takes turn.

          YearX+1
          Civ2 takes turn (no war...so it doesn't matter)
          Civ1 logs in, moves units into "attack mode" but doesn't declare war.

          YearX+2
          Civ1 logs in, Declares war, and attacks. Would be even worse if Civ1 was the last player on YearX+1 and then took his X+2 turn immediately.

          I would consider this to be an unfair "back-to-back" turn by the attacker (Civ1). My view on this would be that Civ1 would need to hold on the YearX+2 turn until Civ2 had a chance to respond to the YearX+1 moves...even though war hadn't been declared. You certainly don't have to tell him you're about to attack, but he should get a chance to respond to your "threatening" advances.

          Bern loves this particular scenario. It's caused him much joy and happiness in the past. ;)

          Snarlin


          Comment


          • #6
            Re: War Protocol

            Originally posted by Snarlin View Post
            This is correct, with one tricky point involving back-to-back turns just prior to the declaration of war.
            Seems to me the attacker (the nation that declares war) has the initiative and can decide if he wants to go first or last in the turn...at least to start with. Note that the turn order can change for any number of reasons so it's not like the turn order is set in stone for the entire war anyhow.

            Say I'm going last in the turn and can no longer wait for the other person to do their turn so I go ahead and do it. Now that means I did a back to back turn. It's up to the people involved to decide if I should just go first in the turn from now on or the other person will do a back to back turn and everything reverts back to the original order. That's my read on these kind of situations. Again, the importance of communication can't be stressed. We're all here to have fun so don't be afraid to talk to the other players. ;)

            Bern loves this particular scenario. It's caused him much joy and happiness in the past. ;)
            lol Under the old 6MD rules that kind of maneuver was allowed. Thus the danger of trying to spell out every possible scenario that a rule could apply to. Lesson learned. :row__536:

            Bernout

            |TG-MD6|

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: War Protocol

              In my opinion, you should always do your best to avoid taking back to back turns leading up to a declaration of war - at least for the turn or so before you DoW - and obviously during a war as well.

              The other time it can get a little irritating is in settler races, but that's much harder to police.

              I'm of the mind - and its worked well in the past - that every time you declare war, that you also post in the main thread for the game stating the current war turn order. And as more join the war, that can be updated to show new dependencies.

              I'm always in favour of a principles-based approach - with heaping portions of scorn and mistrust directed toward people that break the spirit of the rules. :D

              Comment

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