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  • TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

    Start Vote: Wed, Apr 22
    End Vote: Wed, Apr 29

    All remaining players in the TTT game are asked to vote.

    It might be early but I thought as we hit our 8 month anniversary that I would be the first to get a vote started to see where we're at. All I know is from my position things are not looking good as I watch enemy Infantry overrun my neighbor.

    Note that even if the majority voted to end the game, I'd be willing to keep the server up for those who wanted to keep playing. It would simply be a license for the rest of us to turn our nations over to the AI and make a hasty retreat..errr...exit. ;)

    Bernout
    11
    Yes
    36.36%
    4
    No
    63.64%
    7

    The poll is expired.


    |TG-MD6|


  • #2
    Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

    I am not long for this game in any event, so for the benefit of those who might want to continue, my vote is to keep playing.

    dV

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

      dV, you didn't actually vote in the poll?

      I vote "No, keep playing". While some of you are behind, it's not a one-civ (or team) show yet....
      Elkad

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

        I'm abstaining from the vote, my position is so backward it's pretty much irrelevant to the game.
        I'm happy to keep playing it out if the game continues but have no problem if the vote is to finish.

        Out of curiosity how many teams started with their positions separated by ocean ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

          I would think it a pity if those who feel hopelessly behind, even were they in majority, were to end the game for those of us still playing for the win. This is definitely not a one-team show, it's just that currently we're the most active and visible of the teams that still have a chance. I appreciate the stance of da Vinci and IanDC to abstain rather than vote to end.

          IanDC, you were the only to be truly separated. Hoplo and Snake were also on separate landmasses, but they could technically reach each other, via a somewhat long detour past another continent. But it's quite clear that the starts were far from balanced, Bernout and Snarlin got it pretty bad too even though they are actually on the same continent.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

            Well if any team thinks they can beat Oyzar and Niklas, the show your hand, since they destroyed what was at the time the second placed team in the game. Now if they can do that to them, then other teams are no match for them, considering their technological and commerce might I do not see anyway how any team but Niklas and Oyzar winning. It is a shame that the alliance failed whe we had an opportunity to do some damage, but it was too late.

            I do have to say that this game has been too unbalanced with the team with the best land winning this game. I don't thnk this game will end but it is very close should oyzar and niklas decide to go after other teams that might have a chance of winning.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

              A couple of points.

              First, there is no abstaining. ;) If you want to wait until the end to see how everyone else votes that's fine. Or teammates could decide to do opposite votes and effectively cancel each other out.

              Second, I completely agree with CH which was why I decided to go ahead and call the vote to see what the group as a whole felt.

              We're at the point in the game where there are big jumps in the strength of military units. With Oyzar and Niklas seeming to have the tech lead, I can't see anyone being able to do more than dent them no matter what coalition of forces you put together. They have Destroyers out and about now; probably not long until we see Tanks and/or Artillery in the field.

              And unfortunately the lack of tech trading means there's little that teams like CH and Snarlin and I can do. If Oyzar and Niklas feel they need more cities and want to take either of us out there's nothing we could do to stop them.

              So in my eyes the end is inevitable and its just a matter of playing it out until it's obvious to everyone. That's fine. However, when you're one of the guys who's position is futile it's not really a whole lot of fun other than waiting for someone to put us out of our misery. As I said, I'm willing to keep the server up if there are some teams who want to play it out but I voted yes simply because there's little point in playing for some of us. Perhaps some other teams have a non-military victory in mind but if you're thinking of doing a combined attack against Oyzar/Nik then all I can say is.... good luck! ;) And if there are some higher tech teams wanting more cities...then why haven't you been in touch? :)

              Bernout

              |TG-MD6|

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

                Originally posted by Ebenezer View Post
                dV, you didn't actually vote in the poll?
                Apparently not ... my computer froze up on the forum just after I entered the vote ... so it must not have gone through.

                Fixed now.

                dV

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

                  Originally posted by Niklas View Post
                  I would think it a pity if those who feel hopelessly behind, even were they in majority, were to end the game for those of us still playing for the win. This is definitely not a one-team show, it's just that currently we're the most active and visible of the teams that still have a chance. I appreciate the stance of da Vinci and IanDC to abstain rather than vote to end.
                  I think one point of pitboss is to have a platform to play against other humans ... for the whole game. To some extent that has an implicit commitment to stick it out for better or worse, and it will inevitably be worse than better for most players.

                  Oyz/Nik are having plenty of fun I am sure (although with that big a tech lead, not sure that Vinmerica has beem able to put up any better fight than an AI would ... ).

                  Teams that are not yet at rifles or cannons are unlikely to have real winning chances.

                  The real question is whether the two (or three) teams that are next most advanced want to keep playing. If they do, then regardless of the weak positions of the others, I think we owe it to them to continue the game.

                  If no team thinks they can beat oyx/nik, then I am not sure there is much point in playing out a fait accompli ...

                  So from that line of logic, there are probably only 4 to 6 votes that really matter ...

                  dV

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

                    I want to play on!

                    OK, I'm on one of the more advanced teams ... EDIT: and I can fully understand that this game is much fun anymore for Bernout, Snarlin, daVinci, King Morgan, IanDC or SilentSunshine ...

                    And I'm not sure either if some coalition might be able to do anything against niklas and oyzar, but I would like to try it :D

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

                      I will be voting to end the game. I take Bernout's view that with no tech trading the tech lead means most of us cannot even meaningfully participate in the end game. And Nik & Oyzar have already shown they can crush the previous number 2s. So they seem to be able to pick and choose. Military victory or whatever else they want.

                      But if Elkad/Munro or Chris/Ronnie want to carry on thats fine. But I hope those saying to play on are not just playing on for the sake of it. Lets see some action from them! I don't especially want to play another 100 turns or so just to see an unchallenged Niklas/Oyzar space or cultural victory.

                      After all we could start a new game instead :)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

                        Originally posted by da_Vinci View Post
                        I think one point of pitboss is to have a platform to play against other humans ... for the whole game. To some extent that has an implicit commitment to stick it out for better or worse, and it will inevitably be worse than better for most players.
                        I couldn't agree more. Few things irk me more than when someone signs up for a game, and then disrupts it by leaving when things start going bad. Bad sport. If you sign up to start playing, you realize that you may be one of the less fortunate, simply because there has to be someone (or even the majority) that is.

                        Regarding the rest of the discussion: We could roll over Morgan/da Vinci quite easily yes. We planned it for quite some time and struck at the perfect paradigm shift, just when our beeline for Infantry came to a close. We mortally wounded them on the first turn, and the rest has been a tough, drawn out mopping up. It hasn't been easy, certainly far harder than playing against even an AI who were our equal in tech, but the end result was inevitable.

                        My point though - the fact that we could do it once certainly doesn't mean we could do again at our whim. The industrial paradigm shift only occurs once in the game, and the road to Modern Armor is too long for us to be able to do it at that shift. We could very likely have done what we did to Morgan/dV to either Munro/Elkad or Ronnie/Chris instead. But not to all of them, and those two teams are both now past the point where it would be possible. Yes, we're ahead of both of them, someone has to be in the lead after all. But it's far from game over.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

                          It's game over for me and i suspect the rest of the world, their may be some close battles and a bit of a war but i doubt anyone can stop a Nik/Oz spaceship.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

                            Originally posted by Niklas View Post
                            I couldn't agree more. Few things irk me more than when someone signs up for a game, and then disrupts it by leaving when things start going bad. Bad sport. If you sign up to start playing, you realize that you may be one of the less fortunate, simply because there has to be someone (or even the majority) that is.
                            Well, like most things in life there is a balance to be found here. These Pitboss games are a long term commitment; as I mentioned previously, we recently hit 8 months for this game. Asking someone to stay around for months on end when they are not having fun or feel their efforts are futile needs to balanced out against the fun to be had by those on the other end of the spectrum. The key point is we are all here to have fun. Which is why for TG....

                            1. We have this vote to get a feel from all the players as to where the state of the game is; i.e. find out when the "whole game" has reached its conclusion.

                            2. We ask that you stay in the game until it is truly called a done deal.

                            I don't know if this addresses exactly the point that you and daV were trying to make but I thought it was worth explaining the philosophy of the current system anyhow. And as I also mentioned earlier, in this case even were the game to end I'd be willing to keep the server up for those 2 or 3 teams that wanted to battle on. Everyone else would be free to keep playing or turn their nation over permanently to the AI.

                            Speaking of voting, it looks like we just need votes from:

                            Ronnie1
                            Classical Hero
                            Methos
                            Morgan
                            Twinswinmh
                            IanDC
                            SilentSunshine

                            Since this is a team game, if a teammate is MIA then I'll allow the other teammate to vote on their behalf. Since the polling doesn't support that, just post here with the extra vote.

                            Bernout

                            |TG-MD6|

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: TTT Apr 22 Vote: End the game?

                              Originally posted by Bernout View Post
                              I don't know if this addresses exactly the point that you and daV were trying to make but I thought it was worth explaining the philosophy of the current system anyhow. And as I also mentioned earlier, in this case even were the game to end I'd be willing to keep the server up for those 2 or 3 teams that wanted to battle on. Everyone else would be free to keep playing or turn their nation over permanently to the AI.
                              No, it doesn't address the point I was trying to make. My point is that in all games, there will be some underdogs that have less fun - and in most games they will eventually be a clear majority. If you are saying that any game should be fine to call "done deal" when we reach that point then I strongly disagree with you. That means no game will ever reach a real ingame conclusion if a majority of its players have no chance at winning. Show me a single game where a majority of the player have a chance at winning right up to the end.

                              I realize we argued this at the point where you designed this particular rule. I think I simply didn't realize the consequences of it, and was thinking of it in the sense of the TGS game, where there was one clear runaway leader (and no, that isn't the fact for this game). So yes I agreed to the rule as stated back then, but I no longer do, after seeing what the consequences are.

                              I think a fairer end-game rule would be the following two things:

                              1) Change the vote to instead see how many players/teams think they still have a chance at winning the game and want to play for that. If only one team/player answers yes, award the victory accordingly. If two or more answer yes, the game goes on, for all players/teams.

                              2) If any one player/team wants to resign because they feel they can't make a difference at all, if all other players/teams are OK with that then let them turn the nation over to AI. If any other team feels it would be unfair or unfun to play on with an AI in that position, the resigning player should find a sub willing to play on before leaving, just like any other time a player needs to leave.

                              That would far better capture the spirit I want to play in, and the kind of commitment that I feel we have all signed up for when joining a game.

                              Comment

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