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  • Fog of War Game Resolution

    Time to discuss how to wrap this game up, it seems.

    Had an MSN discussion with Rusten, seems his intent is to get a Diplo with his allies, and he said he was otherwise just waiting for us to throw in the towel. I expressed my thought that an in-game resolution is always more satisfying, rather than voting to just stop.

    The UN has been built, and the Rusten alliance probably has the votes, once enough turns go by. So unless someone has a military operation that they are just dying to execute before the next diplo vote ... in the interest of both an ingame result and not investing more time on a forgone conclusion ...

    How about an armistice in place, Bernout sets the turn timer to 30 min or so, runs enough turns to get to just before the UN vote, no one actually logs in until Bernout gets the timer back to 24 for the turn that we get the next vote, we vote, and resolve the game in game in the next 24 hours?

    That means knowing which turn to set timer back for, and if we are not certain, then if there is a turn or two before vote of a long timer, idea is we just log in end turn and log out (no moves, to save time), which is what I mean by armistice in place.

    dV

  • #2
    Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

    Worth mentioning that China/Exploit has agreed to vote which should (without counting) give 75-80% or something of the votes -- more than enough.

    With the holiday coming up it would be a good time to wrap it up and the turns are long.

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    • #3
      Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

      Originally posted by Rusten View Post
      Worth mentioning that China/Exploit has agreed to vote which should (without counting) give 75-80% or something of the votes -- more than enough.

      With the holiday coming up it would be a good time to wrap it up and the turns are long.
      I understand the intent but just to be clear, this would be a solo victory for Rusten, correct? Unless he's formed a permanent alliance with someone there's no sharing of victory in this game.

      I don't really want to mess with the timer just to satisfy an in game victory condition. If the writing is really on the wall and everyone is ready to end it, then let's call a vote and be done with it.

      Bernout

      |TG-MD6|

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

        tbh i'm at war with so many people i don't know who to play before or after ;)

        Anyone who is around over Christmas should PM me to join a new pitboss game. Slots are limited so first come, first served.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

          Originally posted by Morgan View Post
          tbh i'm at war with so many people i don't know who to play before or after ;)
          Not to worry, I am sure it makes no difference at this point ... :D

          dV

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

            Originally posted by Bernout View Post
            I don't really want to mess with the timer just to satisfy an in game victory condition. If the writing is really on the wall and everyone is ready to end it, then let's call a vote and be done with it.

            Bernout
            Well, the long term writing has been on the wall for a long time now ... but I think we may be at the point where there isn't even any intersting gameplay left, at least not between now and the next diplo vote.

            Options:

            1. Call it now ...

            2. Bernout tweaks the timer to get an in-game resolution in about a day (which he seems disinclined to do) ...

            3. We let the game run time for 5 days, then do a diplo vote (log in, if no diplo screen, log out, repeat until vote)

            I marginally prefer an in-game resolution, especially since we are so close. So my preferences would be 2, then 3, then 1. I am happy with any of the three, however.

            If someone has a strong preference to play on for some reasonable reason, then I am willing to do that too.

            dV

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

              I too prefer to see an ingame resolution, if nothing else so that civstats will immortalize Rusten's victory.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

                Originally posted by Niklas View Post
                I too prefer to see an ingame resolution, if nothing else so that civstats will immortalize Rusten's victory.
                Well, if everyone made peace with everyone, and all of Rusten's allies shared passwords so that someone could cast all the votes when that turn comes up, we could pretty painlessly get this to an in-game resolution in a few days, maybe if Bernout were willing to make it a 12 hour timer just once, and leave it there?

                dV

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

                  I'd prefer to just play it out for 5 more days or whatever.

                  If we push the timer a bit (even if everyone just plays early), we can finish up before Christmas.
                  Elkad

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

                    My personal preference is to play it out until the diplomatic victory in game. I will be voting for Rusten as agreed to but I'm holding out a longshot hope that some of his allies won't vote for him.

                    The only reason the game has been a foregone conclusion has been that no one in Rusten's alliance was willing to turn on him even though it meant they would lose. (Says a lot about Rusten's diplomatic skills to instill such loyalty but I find it a little disappointing that some players aren't even trying to win at this point). If everyone in the world ganged up on Rusten, he could still be beat back leaving the game open for anyone to win.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

                      There are always other games coming in future so it pays off to show loyalty. ;)

                      I consider this a team effort, but there's no way to PA everyone -- the game only allows 1. I am very happy to have seen my allies ignore messages trying to sway them to the dark side the last few centuries -- it says just as much about them as my "diplomatic skills".

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

                        I agree that consideration for future games is always important which is why I would not ask anyone to violate the terms of any agreements that they have made but surely there is an out clause in your alliance.

                        If the terms of the alliance were such that they must vote for you even though it means they lose or that they can never leave the alliance then those terms should never have been agreed to in the first place.

                        I certainly would never hold it against someone who withdrew from an alliance once it became obvious that maintaining the alliance meant that they would lose. I am actively sending diplomatic messages to those who have been seduced by your dark message of despair and fanatical devotion to the point of suicide. I will struggle to show the light of truth to everyone. The truth is that this game is not over as long as everyone works together as a team to thwart your evil dominance!

                        I may not succeed since some will undoubtedly take the easy path and give up but I will not give up until I have tried everything I can to win. I take pride in fighting until the bitter end and I'm hoping others in this game do too.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

                          Originally posted by Exploit View Post
                          I agree that consideration for future games is always important which is why I would not ask anyone to violate the terms of any agreements that they have made but surely there is an out clause in your alliance.

                          If the terms of the alliance were such that they must vote for you even though it means they lose or that they can never leave the alliance then those terms should never have been agreed to in the first place.

                          I certainly would never hold it against someone who withdrew from an alliance once it became obvious that maintaining the alliance meant that they would lose. I am actively sending diplomatic messages to those who have been seduced by your dark message of despair and fanatical devotion to the point of suicide. I will struggle to show the light of truth to everyone. The truth is that this game is not over as long as everyone works together as a team to thwart your evil dominance!

                          I may not succeed since some will undoubtedly take the easy path and give up but I will not give up until I have tried everything I can to win. I take pride in fighting until the bitter end and I'm hoping others in this game do too.
                          Well I suppose until Rusten has 51% of the land, there is always some combination of remaining players that can stand up to him.

                          The question is whether the players here really are interested in restructuring the sides to create the kind of parity where each turn is the movenent of 200 modern units per civ, or more, and there is massive carnage on all sides. And if at any point that an advantage is gained, the sides shift again (so Rusten is beaten back, then who joins Rusten to take down the new leader?), then it is more of the same. This essentially gives little reward to offensive actions, so maybe Rusten turtles up and runs for space?

                          I suspect that many of us don't really want an endless modern warfare game of musical teams. We may have a preference for playing the early years of Civ. If the benefit of victory is to be ganged up on, in endless interations, that does put a different flavor on the game.

                          Now if everone wants to play this on with some realignment of the unofficial teams, to create some kind of parity, I will go along with that. But knowing many of the players, I don't think that is their idea of the most fun to be had from Civ.

                          dV

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

                            The UN vote makes for an excellent in-game method for everyone to express their preference for fluid alliances or not. If enough people vote along alliance lines then the game ends as designed.

                            To argue that some players may not enjoy the modern warfare aspect of Civ therefore the game should not be continued seems a bit biased, since some players may not enjoy the ancient era or the middle ages and yet they played through those to reach the modern era. Personally I enjoy pressing the big red button and raining nuclear destruction on my enemies. Having spent so much time building up hundreds of units, it seems a waste not to actually get to use them.

                            To argue that fluid alliances give little reward for offensive actions, begs the question why should offensive play be rewarded more than defensive play? Is there something wrong with turtling up and heading for space? Is offensive play somehow superior to defensive play? Domination victories are generally thwarted by little powers ganging up against a superpower and this is simply game balance and good play in my opinion.

                            Rusten is a long way from a solo domination victory however given the general attitude of players he looks destined to win a solo diplomatic victory at the next vote. If I were one of his allies I would be lobbying for him for a permanent alliance to officially share in the victory.

                            Actually now that I think of it, China should be asking for a permanent alliance with Rusten since it was our peace treaty that got this whole diplomatic victory ball rolling. Rusten expect to see my permanent alliance request next time you login. :)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Fog of War Game Resolution

                              Originally posted by Exploit View Post
                              Actually now that I think of it, China should be asking for a permanent alliance with Rusten since it was our peace treaty that got this whole diplomatic victory ball rolling. Rusten expect to see my permanent alliance request next time you login. :)
                              False. I had actually PM'ed my allies some days ago with the same request -- wanting to end the game before the holiday with a diplomatic vote, and they were fine with it. And we would have enough without you after I had taken some more double-digit cities, but now there's no need. :)

                              My 2 cents:

                              I understand Exploit's point of view and he's surely entitled to it, but this hasn't been a standard FFA game. They are usually divided into many blocks with more short term alliances between single players. In this game, on the other hand, it was clear very early that it would be between 2 alliances, and that is why I don't agree with your loser/winner within the alliance comment. It was always about which alliance would come out on top, not which player. You were either with us, or against us -- and that's why I consider this a team victory.

                              The fact that you joined as a sub late in the game surely influences your opinion -- you didn't experience the flow of the game from start to finish. You're still entitled to your opinion though, and maybe you would feel the same way even if you had played from start, but hopefully this could help you understand why I disagree and why my allies are as loyal as they are.

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