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  • I've been reintroduced...

    Just picked up BtS...

    SOoooooo.. TGers, where the hell are you? One would figure Civ4 would be a more accepted game.

  • #2
    Re: I've been reintroduced...

    How is BtS? Should I get it??
    I heart TG.
    xoxo

    ~Sugar~

    "Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline." ~I saw this in Zephy'rs sig and I love it.

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    • #3
      Re: I've been reintroduced...

      Well.. for me, I've been out of Civ4 for a while due to the myriad of bugs it had at release, as well as my computer not being up to the task back then. Now that I've got a new system this was the perfect time for me to get back into the loop.

      Anyways, I can tell already there's a LOT of new underlying strategy to this expansion... with coorporations and espionage. Nuff said there. End-game seems a lot more balanced now with a few more viable directions to go. Albeit, I assume corps and esp. throw a wrench in that somewhat. There's a lot more units to choose from later on down the road of course (although I havent gotten that far yet)

      The leaders have been totally tweaked with respects to their traits. They're somewhat similar but ever so slightly changed. Also, more balanced I think. Not to mention there are now a MILLION to choose from, each with their own ideal strategy.

      The mods that come with the expansion are totally different games in their own right. "Final Frontier" feels like Galactic Civilizations kinda. Whole different game. That combined with the super cool new campaigns that you get almost take away the need to custom mod at all.

      Overall, Civ4 was/is considered the best strat. game ever made. BtS does nothing but add to this IMO. If you were bored with Civ4 (dont see how though), now you've got something else to chew on.

      Kind of a no brainer. Get it and join us. (playing a game right now with sloppyjoe actually) :)

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      • #4
        Re: I've been reintroduced...

        Quick question here, this is a standalone expansion, yes? Or would I need to buy the Warlords expansion first? Very interested in the whole espionage/corporation concepts, but not interested in buying 2 xpacks.
        [squadl]
        "I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

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        • #5
          Re: I've been reintroduced...

          Originally posted by SmokingTarpan View Post
          Quick question here, this is a standalone expansion, yes? Or would I need to buy the Warlords expansion first? Very interested in the whole espionage/corporation concepts, but not interested in buying 2 xpacks.
          You only need vanilla Civ IV to run BtS.

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          • #6
            Re: I've been reintroduced...

            Originally posted by |TG|SugarNCamo View Post
            How is BtS? Should I get it??
            If you enjoy Civ IV, then I would recommend getting BtS. If you don't feel it's worth $30, then you can wait till next week and see if you can get it from Circuit City for $15. Note, the ad posted may not be available in your area.

            http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=507446

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            • #7
              Re: I've been reintroduced...

              Originally posted by FriedFish View Post
              If you enjoy Civ IV, then I would recommend getting BtS. If you don't feel it's worth $30, then you can wait till next week and see if you can get it from Circuit City for $15. Note, the ad posted may not be available in your area.

              http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=507446
              To me, it's well worth $30. Like I said, it's really a whole new game in itself with the mods and scenarios. There are people who only even play "Final Frontier" on it.

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              • #8
                Re: I've been reintroduced...

                I really like it. AI is a lot smarter to add to the challenge. Spies are another great added twist.

                Burning spies is cool.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I've been reintroduced...

                  Originally posted by Sumluv59 View Post
                  I really like it. AI is a lot smarter to add to the challenge. Spies are another great added twist.
                  I fooled with spies last night with 2 TGers (we were all learning). It's really a pretty neat system. You have "espionage points" that you earn per turn, which can be altered just like research and commerce. You can then take those points and WEIGHT them towards a particular enemy you've met. Every enemy civ always has at least 1 point always weighted... so you cant take them all and put them towards 1. Once your weight is set you then gain those amounts of points/turn towards each civ, etc. Concurrently, individual cities can contribute espionage (each has their own meter as well).

                  This system REALLY makes sense, as it gives the illusion of having to put forth time/effort to really get to know your enemy. And the more enemy you know, the more spread out your efforts automatically become and the less effective you are against one only.

                  We're gettin ready to take out Charlemagne in our MP campaign, so I jacked all my weight onto him for later on. Over time, we'll collect intel on him (esp. points) and then kill him from the inside while we attack from the outside. It's a powerful strat (I added +10 unhappiness for 10 turns last night). I feel it's a bit too powerful, and will probably be nerfed pretty soon though. The Spy menu is ridiculously expansive also. LOT of stuff to choose from.

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                  • #10
                    Re: I've been reintroduced...

                    There is a counter intelligence of some sort to go along with the spying? It would seem unruly to introduce an offensive only mechanic.


                    - -

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                    • #11
                      Re: I've been reintroduced...

                      Originally posted by Vulcan View Post
                      There is a counter intelligence of some sort to go along with the spying? It would seem unruly to introduce an offensive only mechanic.
                      Generating more espionage points than your opponent will increase his espionage costs across the board and will also help catch enemy spies in your territory. A friendly spy can help protect a city or tile by doubling the cost of enemy missions in that tile. Once you get Democracy, you can build the Security Bureau building which will also help against enemy espionage missions. I don't see any way to stop the passive missions. Also keep in mind that this is the initial release and changes and tweaks may come with a patch.

                      Here's the Civilopedia entry for Espionage:

                      Espionage

                      Espionage Points

                      Using the Espionage Slider, players may assign a percentage of their trade income towards the production of Espionage Points. On the Espionage Screen, these points may be assigned to leaders that the player has met. These points may be used to perform various Active and Passive Espionage Missions. Active Missions require the player to spend Espionage Points and have a spy in the territory of the opponent they wish to perform the mission against. Passive Missions will take effect as the player accrues more points against a specific opponent. Having more espionage points accumulated will increase the cost of your opponents' missions towards you and reduce the cost of your missions towards them.

                      The Courthouse, Jail, Palace, Castle, Security Bureau and Intelligence Agency all increase the production of Espionage points. The Nationhood Civic also provides an Espionage bonus and the Security Bureau Building increases the point cost of enemy missions in your cities.

                      Espionage Screen

                      Espionage Points may be assigned to specific opponents on the Espionage Screen. If you do not assign points to specific leaders, they will be evenly divided between all known civs. By increasing the "Weight" item next to each opponent's portrait, you can assign the portion you would like each opponent to receive. Increasing the weight next to an opponent's name to "1" will assign all Espionage Points to that opponent. Increasing one opponent's weight to "2" while keeping two other opponents' weight at "1" and another's at "0" will give the first opponent twice as many points as the second and third, while the fourth will receive none. You may assign Weights in any fractions you like, up to 99. In this way, you can finely tune the portion of Espionage Points you would like assigned to each of your opponents. Below "Weight" is a number that shows the cost modifier for your Espionage Missions against this opponent. This number is based on the total number of Espionage Points you have spent throughout the game against this opponent. If the number is below 100% that means you have spent more on Espionage than your opponent, and your missions may be performed at a discount. If the number is greater than 100%, it means your opponent has spent more on Espionage than you. This will increase the cost of your Espionage Missions directed towards that opponent. The bottom item on the list states exactly how many Espionage Points you earn per turn towards that opponent. You can also see the Espionage Points you have against all players and the points they have against you by hovering the mouse over their score in the main interface. On the right half of the espionage screen is the list of all the Espionage Missions and their costs. You may click on an opponent's portrait to see a list of all their visible cities and the cost of missions in the selected city. Costs vary according to a number of factors, including the size of the city, its distance from your civilization, and religions present. If the cost of a Mission is blank, this means that the Mission requires more information to determine the exact cost, meaning you must move a spy into enemy territory before the mission cost can be determined.

                      Spies

                      Spies may be built by a Civilization that has researched The Alphabet. Spies differ greatly from most units. Completely invisible to enemy Civilizations, Spies can enter enemy territory to perform one Espionage Mission per turn. Active missions are tile sensitive, meaning you will have to sneak your Spy onto the enemy improvement or city you wish to affect. Performing a mission costs a certain number of Espionage Points and will cause an indicator to pop-up for your opponent over the location of the mission, informing him of the act (but not necessarily of your Spy). If the mission succeeds, the Spy may survive to perform more Missions, or she may be caught and destroyed. If the mission fails, the Spy will be destroyed, but no Espionage Points will be consumed. The cost of these Espionage Missions decrease the longer a Spy remains stationary on a tile, but every turn a Spy remains in enemy territory, there is a chance that she will be caught and destroyed. The chances of being caught increase with your opponent's Espionage spending, with the presence of a Security Bureau and if your Spy has recently performed a mission against that tile. If the Spy is caught, there is also a chance that its owner will be revealed. In addition to performing Espionage Missions, Spies also make excellent intelligence gatherers. They can use enemy roads and enter the cities of opponents with whom the player is at war, allowing the player access to otherwise unreachable information. The downside is that spies have a chance to get caught when they end their turn in unwelcome territory, even if they perform no active missions. Unwelcome territory is any territory belonging to a rival with whom you do not have an open borders agreement.

                      Missions

                      To perform an Espionage Mission, a player must move a Spy unit to the plot or city where they would like to perform the mission and select the Espionage Mission button. The Espionage Missions are:

                      Sabotage Improvement - Destroy an enemy improvement or route

                      Sabotage Building - Destroy a building within an enemy city

                      Steal Treasury - Steal a portion of your opponent's treasury, between 10 and 100%

                      Spread Culture - Increase your cultural influence in a city

                      Poison Water - Temporarily increase the amount of unhealthiness within an enemy city

                      Foment Unhappiness - Temporarily increase unhappiness within an enemy city

                      Support City Revolt - Send a city into revolt for one turn. This lowers enemy city defence, but does not remove cultural borders

                      Steal Technology - Steal a technology from an opponent

                      Sabotage Production - Destroys all hammers accumulated towards construction in a city

                      Sabotage Project - Destroys an already completed Spaceship Part

                      Influence Civics - Switch one opponent civic to match a civic you have adopted

                      Influence Religion - Switch an opponent's state religion to your state religion

                      Perform Counterespionage - Temporarily doubles cost of enemy espionage missions

                      Passive Missions

                      Passive Missions activate automatically as you accumulate certain levels of Espionage Points against an opponent. But as your opponent increases his own cache of Espionage Points, the Point costs of your Passive Missions increase in kind, requiring you to up your own Espionage spending to keep the effects. The Passive Missions are:

                      Can See Demographics - Allows you to see enemy demographics on the Info Screen [F9]

                      Can See Research - Allows you to see what your opponent is researching and how many turns they have until completion

                      City Visibility - Enemy cities are added to your visibility

                      Investigate City - You may enter enemy city screens by double-clicking on them

                      Spy Specialists

                      Spy specialists give a bonus to Espionage output and increase the chance of a Great Spy appearing in a city. The Courthouse, Jail, Intelligence Agency, Security Bureau, and Kremlin World Wonder allow the assignment of Spy specialists in a city.

                      Great Spies

                      Great Spies may occasionally appear in your city through the use of Spy specialists or Espionage-related Wonders. Invisible to all other units, Great Spies can explore rival territory, and will give a massive bonus of Espionage Points against a specific civilization if you expend the Spy in their city. They may also join a city as a super specialist, increasing science and espionage output of a city; or they may construct a Scotland Yard in a city, adding a significant bonus to Espionage production in that city.

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                      • #12
                        Re: I've been reintroduced...

                        Originally posted by Vulcan View Post
                        There is a counter intelligence of some sort to go along with the spying? It would seem unruly to introduce an offensive only mechanic.
                        The more spies, espionage points, buildings, and units you have in a city the more able you are to catch them in the act.

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                        • #13
                          Re: I've been reintroduced...

                          Perform Counterespionage - Temporarily doubles cost of enemy espionage missions
                          This is what i was after. So with this mechanic you could essentially have spies in all your cities and use them for Counterespionage constantly as a defensive mechanic.


                          - -

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                          • #14
                            Re: I've been reintroduced...

                            Originally posted by Vulcan View Post
                            This is what i was after. So with this mechanic you could essentially have spies in all your cities and use them for Counterespionage constantly as a defensive mechanic.
                            Indeed. But, I'm not sure you have to be in nme territory or not.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I've been reintroduced...

                              Originally posted by FriedFish View Post
                              see if you can get it from Circuit City for $15. Note, the ad posted may not be available in your area.

                              http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=507446
                              I sent my wife a link to that thread with some serious hints about an early xmas gift for me. I think I'll bring her some flowers tomorrow, too.
                              Become a supporting member!
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