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Should we add ACRE?

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  • Should we add ACRE?

    This is a feeler poll. We want to get a sense of where the community stands on the issue. The votes here do not mean definite implementation at this time but it will certainly help the TG admins in the decision making process.
    I'm happy either way as long as I get to play ArmA

    The poll is expired.

    |TG-73rd Member| Former TG Irregular ArmA Platoon Leader| Former TG ArmA Admin XO| TG Pathfinder - Spartan 1 |TGU ArmA Instructor |Former TG-18th Member| |Former TG-1st Member|

    "Its easy to argue about issues from afar. But until you have experienced the issue first hand, you have not seen all the facts."

    Carver you will be cut off for a long time before reinforcements can reach you "I am the reinforcements the main force is only coming to bring me body bags and to clean up the mess Im about to make" - General Carver

  • #2
    Re: Should we add ACRE?

    I've voted yes, but realistically I'd opt for a trial implementation period if it were an option


    • #3
      Re: Should we add ACRE?

      Voted yes, ONLY if class's are held before hand....

      "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis


      • #4
        Re: Should we add ACRE?

        I voted yes . It is really not that hard to use, it works better than when we tried it before. better comms.


        • #5
          Re: Should we add ACRE?

          Voted yes. Am familiar with it. Makes a world of difference in the immersion factor. I do think an orientation would be in order for everyone wanting to play with it. Chief is right much more stable now than before.

          Probably one of the best addons ...IMHO.
          "The unexamined life is not worth living". Socrates. "The unlived life is not worth examining". |TG| tiggr


          • #6
            Re: Should we add ACRE?

            Yes, as long as we have classes on A. radio discipline and use and B. how to use the damn thing. Nothing was more frustrating then having to spend 20 minutes while in the mission to explain to people how to use the keybind or that they needed to activate something in their options file.

            Reminds me of the one Chad Hudson mission that we almost needed to call 35 minutes into the stealth mission because the guy who had the ACE wirecutters couldn't use them because they never removed the quotes in their ACE config's name so they couldn't use the keybind.

            <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
            <04:16:25> "|TG-XV| Tralic": this channel is so gay
            DICE needs to make a comical boxing glove attached to a spring punch the player in the face 40% of the time they get into a helicopter or jet.


            • #7
              Re: Should we add ACRE?

              Of course we will have to have classes on the useage of the radios and such. First things first , building a core of players here at ArmaTG, that play often and want to help build our community. When I say Arma TG was almost dead, its out of sadness not anger. The number of players on our servers for months on end bear that out as fact. Rebuilding will take a dedicated group that are here on the servers, to seed ,to greet new players and show them the TG way of playing Arma, to help them get started, to answer their questions. If we want TG Arma back, we need to work hard at it. We need vanilla, we need ace+Acre and whenever it gets here Arma PR servers but most of all we need TG people to show the way.


              • #8
                Re: Should we add ACRE?

                ACRE 1.1.1 is no longer the current version, and from memory TG has very mixed results in wanting to adopt a Beta product. While the 1.1.1 release is mostly stable for most people it is no longer being updated, as Teamspeak will be moving onto a new sound engine in its oncoming releases for the TS3 line. What this means is as soon as that update happens, ACRE will no longer work with the 1.1.1 build.

                Also, this means that the current 1.2.x builds are actively being developed and not to be considered a STABLE or final build. Due to the changes in TS3 ... and the fact you need to run a beta TS3 client to even use the new and current version of ACRE. It is not a stable and or finished product. It is still going thru many changes, all improving the stability and feature set but, they are new features none the less and not what we were originally told that we would be holding out for. At current I do not think the current admin team has the means to support clients installing a Beta PRE Release Candidate TS3 client, for an actively developing program that is not at this point, considered feature stable.

                Now as for people being confused in how to use the product... I am a bit taken back, since there were no aditional keybinds or INI files that needed configuration to use.
                You had ... your normal push to talk for direct communication.
                You had ... your capslock key (once removed from von binding) which works for your radio.

                You had an additional set of two keys that were required one to open the radio so you could change the channel button. And the other to cycle between any radio you had in your inventory...
                These being CTRL+ALT+X (radio interface), and CTRL+ALT+C (cycle between radios).

                In all honestly this was just as many functions as using VON to communicate in game, if not much easier.
                Von required a Capslock key to broadcast (same)
                and required players to keep hitting the comma and period keys until they got to the proper communication channel. Which during gameplay could be even more confusing. The function existed to setup hotkeys to speak on each separate channel but then ... you would have to define upwards of 6 separate functions for those channels alone much less being able to use them at a moments notice, depending on the situation.

                Do I think ACRE has a place, yes, definitely, but as per all prior decisions the current and past admin team was not wanting the playerbase to have to worry about testing a beta product.
                The views expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of or of any other TacticalGamer ArmA Administration member, reader discretion is advised.


                • #9
                  Re: Should we add ACRE?

                  Hrmm.. If this new sound engine thing is likely to cause problems I'd be edging on changing my mind. I personally have very little drive to go through the multitude of issues I experienced the last time TG tried it again, maybe a 'wait and see' thing....


                  • #10
                    Re: Should we add ACRE?

                    ACRE gives basically two cool new features:
                    1. range dependent radio with custom channels (adhoc team building is possible in different areas) -> large deployments will require dedicated radio operators (very cool)
                    2. directional talk is possible with voice activation!!!!! (i just have a key to deactivate voice altogether)


                    • #11
                      Re: Should we add ACRE?

                      Given the condition of future TS updates, along with the ACRE team having to play catchup, my vote is no at the present moment on the grounds that we'll look at this again the next time there is a stable release in the near future.

                      "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. " - Albert Einstein


                      • #12
                        Re: Should we add ACRE?

                        Is there a reason why we would not be able to use last stable update?

                        "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis


                        • #13
                          Re: Should we add ACRE?

                          We could, but as soon as TS changes their system in upcoming betas the current version of ACRE would not work as Impluse said above.

                          "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. " - Albert Einstein


                          • #14
                            Re: Should we add ACRE?

                            Just to address a few things - and as I'm sure you know, don't really care about the swing of things either way ;)

                            1. We have had pre-release access (both beta and before that, closed beta private builds) of the new TS3 system for ~6 months now. This has been my main focus. The 1.1.1 was really just a 'small fix' push for ACRE - most of my time has been spent on 1.2 (new TS engine) for a long time now.

                            2. The TS3 dev's have actively worked with us, both in private and public, specifically to iron out all issues we have so far encountered. We currently have one (1) outstanding bug with the TS3 dev's which has not been fixed yet (out of ~30 over the past 6 months). This bug is....squawks are not spatialized when you spatialize a radio (e.g. squawks in both ears regardless). This is addressing the "catch-up" game. There really isn't one anymore. We get pre-release closed tests. The only lag will be auto-update lag on API changes when they happen (approximately 2 minutes for us to fix, depending on my upload speeds that day).

                            3. 1.1.1 is a pile of crap; straight up. We hit the upper limits of their old sound engine (as they did too, obviously). Our 1.2 push gave me an opportunity to completely redesign a large amount of sub-systems - mainly due to my access with the TS3 dev team; I was able to request API/implementation changes that better suited my model. And they actually implemented it. A large amount of the changes in this sound engine are specifically at the request of ACRE.

                            4. If your wondering how we have such exclusive access to them - you'll see an announcement tomorrow about why :)

                            5. 1.2.5 is our current stable release push. We are currently on 1.2.2 (with RC's currently in the works for 1.2.3). Between 1.2.2 and 1.2.5, we are doing strictly stability bug fixes and feature re-integration (no new feature introduction). This means we are simply re-testing and re-applying features from 1.1.1 back into the 1.2 branch line.

                            6. If TG chose - 1.2.5 is going to be our stable release in approximately 2-4 weeks. Additionally, once TS3 goes public with 3.0 (quote: "sometime in Q1 of 2011"), we are going to begin a ACE-style release push - with STABLE/RC releases as well as internal test builds.

                            7. As noted above and correctly by imp, it *does* require a new "beta" version of TS3. IMO, from a developer and (obviously) heavy user standpoint, its better than b36. But that's just my opinion, and running multiple teamspeaks *is* a pain. However, I think our installers have greatly improved and developed also since 1.1.1.

                            Now Also - just to address some of the misconceptions from users of the early releases ( < 1.1) and from a2ts (not my damn code).
                            1. There is no such thing as high player count issues. UO can attest to this. It does not exist. Period. (1.1 and 1.2)
                            2. There is no such thing as "lag" issues. ACRE even works when your server is falling over. (1.1 and 1.2)
                            3. 1.1 has hangs requiring special shortcuts to alliviate (1.1 only, fixed in 1.2)
                            4. There is no "you cant hear people" or "Things fall over bugs". This crap hasn't happened in ~6-9 months.
                            5. Again, forget a2ts. That isn't our code. We've ironed out all the issues. A lot of our performance fixes also fixed other features you are very familiar with in ACE (missile guidance, tows, etc)

                            So, just in conclusion (from a ACRE Dev standpoint for you) here's pro's and cons on all your current choices (IMO):

                            -- With ACRE 1.2.x --
                            - Most stable version of ACRE to date (no crashes, no hangs for all but 1 player, out of > 100 at our place).
                            - Utilizes new engine rewrite - more responsive and comprehensive
                            - Current supported version
                            - Better quality (performance and sounding) audio processing filters
                            - Currently on a stabilization release cycle. No new features - only bug fixes and stabilization
                            - Requires TS3 beta. Either a separate install, or an upgrade to the new version (Our installer provides a stand-alone build, or you have to edit files in the TeamSpeak 3 folder)
                            - In active development. This includes weekly releases of current new bug-fix sets
                            - We have not yet reached a STABLE build. 1.2.2 is pretty stable (cic 1 person crashes out of > 100), but it has not been around long enough to be re-tagged as full stable release build. Stability between 1.2.3 - 1.2.5 will be sporadic, until 1.2.5 (STABLE) release.
                            - Non-official release. Currently only used by our tester/heavy user communities. We have not pushed it to main public (BIF)

                            -- With ACRE 1.1.1 --
                            - Public latest release of ACRE, used widely by many communities
                            - Supports current latest public of TS3 (b36)
                            - Near-matching feature set to 1.2
                            - Known crashes and hangs. Requires custom "Set Affinity" shortcut to stabilize.
                            - Lower quality audio processing
                            - Unsupported and about to go EOL (end of life)

                            -- Without ACRE --
                            - No dealing with me or complicated radios
                            - The world explodes.
                            Last edited by jaynus; 02-22-2011, 02:28 PM. Reason: grammar

                            Task Force Proteus

                            The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but Im just not close enough to get the job done."


                            • #15
                              Re: Should we add ACRE?

                              I would not wish the 1.1.1 build onto anyone, for the reasons Jay has stated.

                              While it is the compatible version with the existing TS3 client that is out right now (non beta release candidate), it requires user intervention to make it work, and then it is only as reliable as he end user's machine.

                              Special exemptions need to made with how the TS3 session is ran to ensure stability on some systems (64bit TS3, with set affinity to one core.)

                              But, even then results are varied with a large number of fringe instances per machine.
                              The views expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of or of any other TacticalGamer ArmA Administration member, reader discretion is advised.




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