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  • Pilots ruining Bravo server?

    So lately I've been joining Bravo server and noticing 3-4 players at a time slotting as pilots during low populated domination games (5-7 players), usually resulting in 2-3 left on the ground to clean up the scraps of constant multiple non-requested A-10 strafing runs. Also, when they crash their aircraft or it gets shot down, they go and pick another aircraft to expend. Then, I see them at base with an AT launcher on their back...wtf? I'm pretty sure that's not what ArmA 2 is about, especially on a server ran by TG.

    Additionally, the fact that when a side mission pops up, it's objective and surrounding area is completely decimated by aforementioned pilots less than 2 minutes later, effectively ruining gameplay for everyone else that wanted to participate.

    This rant/gripe is pertaining only to the domination missions on Bravo server. I play on TG servers to escape this exact lone-wolf, non-sim behavior players exhibit on other servers, as TG seems to uphold a better standard of organization and maturity.

    I know I'm not the only one with this pet peeve. Is there anything that can be put in place to limit the amount or effect assault aircraft can have when there are less than 10 players on the server to preserve gameplay for the majority?

    TL;DR - Lone wolf aircraft and artillery are ruining gameplay in domi missions when server population is mid-low.

  • #2
    Re: Pilots ruining Bravo server?

    Awesome post mate, do me a favor and collect names and then post in the CAA thread, that way, our administrators can deal with them!

    It is like you said, you do not come here for that type of play, and you shouldnt have to be apart of it. Make the CAA thread, because you are doing your part as a TG member in just making this post, now finish the job by alerting the admins to the offenders!!

    +1 man!






    "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

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    • #3
      Yeah Ive noticed this aswell but I normally hear this.

      *beep* anyone able to establish comms with CAS?"
      *beep* nope lost contact, wait 1
      *beep* it got shot down while manualing some hyrads into the AO.

      Or gotta love the guys that take the AH6 and go rambo thr main AO. Kind of annoying really. Maybe editing the domi slots to have only 2 pilots might work better? 3 tops? (2 CAS, 1 trans)
      sigpic


      Do you really want invincible bears running around raping your churches and burning your women?

      Intel i7 3930k @ 4.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 2x GTX 570 1gb, OCZ Vertex 3 120 gig SSD

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      • #4
        Re: Pilots ruining Bravo server?

        There's a simple way to fix this.

        Take command.

        If you see this going on, get on sidechat and ask - is there a CO?

        If not, follow it up with 'right I'm now the CO, all assets RTB immediately' reassign on the ground to better suit your needs, of someone complains that's how we play and if they don't follow orders give them fair warning, but if they don't listen you are good to have an admin, or have yourself voted admin to kick them, preferably followed up by a post in the admin forums for them to keep an eye on.

        First post from the dead ftw ;p

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        • #5
          Re: Pilots ruining Bravo server?

          Absolutely, we follow the chain of command here. Side chat is allowable for situations like this and server admin type duties. If there players not responding & doing their own thing they are welcome to do so somewhere else. Now, sometimes radio coms break down due to ranges. That must be taken into consideration. If you are unable to get voted admin then your only option would be to post in the CAA thread or find an ArmaAdmin in TS.

          Another note: if you get voted admin you will also be held to account for being fair & decent (ie: warnings & attempts at conciliation are always taken first).
          http://www.tacticalgamer.com/arma-so...rocedures.html

          Now back to your posts & get organized on the double. ;)
          |TG-189th| Unkl
          ArmA 3 Game Officer
          Dean of Tactical Gamer University
          189th Infantry Brigade Member
          SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
          "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

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          • #6
            Re: Pilots ruining Bravo server?

            IMHO we need something better than domi to prime with. It's not exactly a milsim, nor does it prescriptively enforce sim-type behaviour. For me the problem is with the mission and not with the players. What would you rather the pilots do exactly? Sit at base and wait for someone to tell them what to do? They might as well not play. Domination doesn't encourage teamplay unless a group of people decide to play it that way.

            Emergent behavior dictates that a few entities does not a hivemind make. If you catch my drift. It's simple though, if you call a pilot on comms and he's unresponsive or belligerent then it's an issue. Though it's probably unnecessary to prime without the teleport/parajump options. Those of us who invested in joysticks/the hour it took to figure out how to keep something in the air don't exist as a personal taxi service!

            I also note some resentment over 'stolen kills'? Mando missiles (script or addon) forces much greater coordination between air and ground to hit targets, and it also GREATLY increases the effects of AA (Flak or missiles) making the lifespan of your average lone-wolf pilot about 100% shorter! Strong case for adding it to bring the sim component to flying as well.

            Either that or we should add Mando + GLT Missiles + F16s so everybody (a la old Top Gun mission) can fly until the server fills up and we get the stupidity out of the way. Might also produce some better pilots.

            All that being said, good, if touchy post.

            EDIT: Or you know, available land vehicles on Domi would be sweet too. :P

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            • #7
              Re: Pilots ruining Bravo server?

              Totally agree with the OP, can we not have transport only helo's to discourage the selfish top gun wannabe's. It's not TG behaviour and these are TG's servers, they can go and play a flight sim if they're that bothered.


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              • #8
                Re: Pilots ruining Bravo server?

                Originally posted by 1n7r3p1d View Post
                IMHO we need something better than domi to prime with. It's not exactly a milsim, nor does it prescriptively enforce sim-type behaviour. For me the problem is with the mission and not with the players. What would you rather the pilots do exactly? Sit at base and wait for someone to tell them what to do? They might as well not play. Domination doesn't encourage teamplay unless a group of people decide to play it that way.
                It all depends on how you're playing it and if you have a strong leader who's also voted admin. Back in the day with Blackdog, Massaqil, and some other regulars they would have "tactical domi" in the wee hours of the night.

                6-10 people on the server? perfect. Someone is designated pilot. Mission is dictated by the FTL or SL. Everyone get an appropriate weapon and maybe some satchels. NOONE uses TP/paradrop or kick. Everyone gets in the chopper, chopper goes for low and fast insertion, touches off, waits/circles for recall orders or CAS if needed. Infantry does it's thing as ordered by CO/FTL/SL, pops smoke, chopper retrieves them, RTB, debrief.

                What's so hard about that? Besides actually getting people to recognize that Domi doesn't need to be a free-for-all sandbox where everyone needs javelins and M110 with explosive ammo? The beauty of Domi (and a bit more limited, Insurgency) is that you can craft it as a freeform mission any way you want it. We were basically doing Chad Hudsen and AWACS missions freeform through Domi. It just takes a firm hand and a confident leader who's not afraid to tell a jagoff to GTFO my squad/server if you aren't onboard.

                The only thing I dislike is Insurgency. It's okay and all but many, many times I've joined with Insurgency on and noone is on opfor and the game is just a huge disorganized turkey shoot unless someone turns the AI up, but people seem to prefer to have them fairly dumb. There's been many times where I'l pop in the server and it's Insurgency and the name of the game seems to be "Shoot me some AI, forget the caches" because most of the areas are green and there's 40 cache markers on the map and 0/7 caches destroyed, and everyone's concerned about making the entire city green.

                <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
                <04:16:25> "|TG-XV| Tralic": this channel is so gay
                DICE needs to make a comical boxing glove attached to a spring punch the player in the face 40% of the time they get into a helicopter or jet.

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                • #9
                  Re: Pilots ruining Bravo server?

                  Again. 6-10 people on the server should probably be loading up a 15 player mission with respawn/jip and not ragequitting or picking fights with each other because people aren't playing the way they see fit. And for the record, in 2 years of ARMA gaming I have never been that pilot who refuses to listen to orders but what I hear here are two different complaints: one is about people who can fly (or as was said above 'the topgun wannabes') and another about people not following orders or playing as a team. I've had experiences just as bad with non-teamplayers on infantry-only missions. And hell, sometimes it's the commander who buries the whole thing while the squad leadership is fine. I can only point out again that the title of this post and its tone imply that flying should be left off the server and pilots are all bad for teamplay.

                  I happen to like to fly. I do a damn good job of it.

                  Jack Bauer hit it right on the head though, there's a CAA thread for a reason. The problem is not with pilots but apparently with players. (And I agree they should be privately named and appropriately shamed for their crimes). Bringing broad and vague complaints like that which could hurt anybody's ability to enjoy flying by colouring player perception doesn't strike me as very constructive.

                  As an aside: There's a swimming/SCUBA mod being released -very- soon (from the sounds of it ACE2 compatible) that might make riverine/seaborne operations on Domi much more viable than at present. ;)

                  Edit (again): AbortedMan... the other night I think yourself, myself and a few other people called CAS (flown by Phlogios) I think appropriately on target while engaging what few limited infantry/vehicle contacts we could handle. He picked us up in an LB, dropped us (and the MHQ) off in a Chinook... I'd call that pretty good evidence in contradiction with your assertion but to be fair, I was buried in the editor last night/this morning so don't know what kind of antics people have been getting up to.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Pilots ruining Bravo server?

                    Originally posted by 1n7r3p1d View Post
                    .....What would you rather the pilots do exactly? Sit at base and wait for someone to tell them what to do? They might as well not play. Domination doesn't encourage teamplay unless a group of people decide to play it that way.
                    In a word...yes...we expect pilots to follow orders of the commander. No qualifications beyond this are necessary. If the pilots are lone wolfing they'll be kicked if they don't come in line with what the commander orders or what the group needs.

                    The answer is to take command...as another poster has already indicated. If the pilots don't fall in line take names and contact us on CAA or find an admin on TS or in game. We'll make sure they get the message as they see the banhammer come down.

                    The other thing is guys....when the server is seeded someone take control and start up those coop missions so we don't have to deal with who does what in DOMI.
                    sigpic
                    |TG-1st|Grunt
                    ARMA Admin (retired)
                    Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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                    • #11
                      Re: Pilots ruining Bravo server?

                      Ok so I just logged on Domi to prove you guys wrong and spent half an hour running around alone or with an intermittently disconnecting squadmate, got TK'd by the apache twice. On the upside, there was a nice person flying the littlebird who helped me get back after the first death just in time for the second :D

                      However, it was channel 1 dominated by artillery calls/chatter that kept me from telling the pilot to waveoff so it was more a comedy of errors than anybody's individual fault.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Pilots ruining Bravo server?

                        Humm, looks like this is a prime time to sharpen your leadership skills and take the bull by the horns and organize the server. You have a voice playing here at TG, take note of the offenders and take it to the CAA. It's the only way to deal with people like this.

                        Take the lead, do not follow! :)






                        "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Pilots ruining Bravo server?

                          Please understand that I am not against pilots, flying, CAS, or transport roles. My goal is not to throw anyone under the bus and name names for the sake of a ban at this time. Since there was no rule or policy posted on the server about a minimum player amount needed to fly attack aircraft I simply wanted to create awareness of the issue. A simple "no flying attack aircraft with less than 10 people on the server - unless CAS requested" added to the chat ticker would probably alleviate the eagerness to go Rambo A-10 on the AO or side mission...it's the availability and somewhat unregulated access of these aircraft being used when they shouldn't be that I feel is the issue.

                          I can only point out again that the title of this post and its tone imply that flying should be left off the server and pilots are all bad for teamplay.
                          This could not be farther from the truth and I am surprised you would assume such absolution. I love calling in CAS when it's needed. I know you know what I'm talking about when I say lone wolf pilots, and the ones eager to just destroy everything with a cluster bomb...or "support" infantry by requesting an A-10 is better suited to take out one fleeing AI machine gunner.


                          Edit (again): AbortedMan... the other night I think yourself, myself and a few other people called CAS (flown by Phlogios) I think appropriately on target while engaging what few limited infantry/vehicle contacts we could handle. He picked us up in an LB, dropped us (and the MHQ) off in a Chinook... I'd call that pretty good evidence in contradiction with your assertion but to be fair, I was buried in the editor last night/this morning so don't know what kind of antics people have been getting up to.
                          Again, I'm not saying EVERY pilot is ruining gameplay, nor is Phlogios, I had fun that night, but there were some A-10 antics that were annoyances and let downs to my 3 man fireteam in the AO and side missions, we voiced our thoughts immediately and we went on our way.

                          I realize taking command if there isn't already an acting CO is probably the best solution and would fix all this, as other posters said. Thank you for the suggestion. I mistakenly assumed that was reserved for certain players only.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Pilots ruining Bravo server?

                            I take the blame for that apache teamkill (intrepid), yes it was wrong of me but me and my pilot had been doing domi by ourselfs for about 5 hours or so and just played with the apache noone on the ground at all until the very end of the last main objective we had 1 or 2 infantry that neither me and my pilot knew about that entered the AO when we where mopping up the stragglers in town, note we didnt know about friendly inf in town until i zoomed in on a heat signature and saw the 117F radio backpack. Only people on the server except me and pilot that we knew what they where doing where trying out the MLRS artillery piece and the otherone was on call for the M119 Howitser cannon we thought the main objective was all hostile.

                            There was so much artillery talk on the radio my pilot could barely hear me, his gunner sitting within whisper distance so i understand why intrepid couldnt call us off

                            I take the blame and any punishment but we where just playing with the apache to make the time go faster, makes the ~5 hours of seeding feel like 1-2 hours
                            Last edited by Tarmpaket; 05-31-2011, 02:15 PM.
                            Spartan 10


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                            • #15
                              Intrepid, I didn't pick up anywhere near the negativity you did from the op. This is definitely a lone wolfing issue, that's highlighted by some actions by some pilots, and not a pilot issue.

                              I think potting rules in place that say something like "don't use a10s with fewer than 10 purple on the server" would definitely be a case of over legislation. We'd end up with 100s of rules for every little situation, when all we really need to do is enforce the "follow CO commands" rule.

                              Also, I'd say if the server is mostly empty, and no-one's stepped up to be CO, taking an apache out, or calling arty, to experiment or fill time is all fair play.

                              - Sent via tapatalk. Please excuse the typos.


                              [Spartan 9]

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