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  • Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

    Hi guys.
    First of all i want to make clear that I'am aware of Domination being a Seeder-Mission to populate the Server. So there are no missunderstandings =)
    I know that some people dislike Domination because of the type of Missions (Main AO: Enemies always at the same spot etc) and the type of playing (sometimes just running around, everybody is flying, parajumping and non-tacticool in general.)
    But i also realised that Domination is one of the most-played missions on this Server. There are people who dislike it, and people who like it. Of course i don't prefer Domination about real COOP missions, but maybe we could try to make Domination more likely for everybody who plays it (because its played really often, if there are less players etc).

    Maybe everybody can just write what he likes and dislikes on Domination; (try to describe it!)
    -What do you like/dislike on the current Domination? (what could be improved?)
    -What kind of settings/parameters do you want?
    -What maps do you like?
    -What vehicles do you want to have (Bonus vehicles?)
    -What do you think can be done to improve tactical gameplay?
    -What do you think can be done to make the missions for "dynamic"?
    -How can we do all of these, but still have a working Seeder-Mission?
    -Maybe another Seeder Mission which is similar to Domination?

    This way we can try to make one of the most-played missions better for everybody, and make it more Tactical to fit into the Communities way of playing.
    I know that there are also people who want to "ban" Domination from the Servers completly, but Domination is still a well-played mission on the Server. Its perfect to train people in Air-Assets, Commanding and all the stuff you can't try out on a real missions.

    I hope we get some good Positive and Negative points on Domination, so we can try to improve it and make it more fun for everybody =)

    Greetings
    Andy


    PS @Admins: Is it possible to edit the thread, so everybody can Repli, without and Admin approve every repli?
    Last edited by Andy; 03-17-2012, 08:35 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

    The issue with modifying domination is that every time there is an update to it by the creator you lose all the changes you made to it to customize it to how you would like it. The decision has to be made by the community as to whether we take the latest version and stop there and start modifying it so it is special to TG and that's it. Great idea but your asking people to do work that they could quickly say heck no to and then what?

    TG does a darn good job at playing domination like it needs to be played without having to make any changes to being more tactical or adding new toys. You are also possibly asking TG to add more MODS to their list of stuff everyone has to download and telling the admins to constantly manage the status of those MODS to make sure we have the latest versions.

    There is nothing wrong with the version of domination that is played and it serves it's purpose just fine the way it is. If you feel there is a issue with the way TG play's then that is a totally different topic that is not related domination what so ever.
    Last edited by viper1986; 03-17-2012, 09:06 AM.
    FORMER 22ND RRR/FORMER 1ST JTOC/ ALWAYS A TACTICALGAMER


    Spartan 4

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    • #3
      Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

      Well, as it was asked... got a few things I'd personally like to change. Also, damn Viper, give the lad his head back! You just bit it clean off! Scared the hell out of me, and it wasn't even directed at me. Healthy debte, is all. Also, re: "make any changes to being more tactical or adding new toys", I'm more in favour of removing some of the toys.

      And! And! Re: editing Domination for our own usage... Chernarus Domination is a TG edit by Scarecrow, because (as far as I know) there wasn't an ACE / ACRE version currently available.



      Likes
      1. Good for learning / practicing leadership skills on small side missions.
      2. Good for practicing new tactics etc without too much impact. i.e. it's not a 'real' mission, you haven't just wasted your one chance if it fails.
      3. Different ways of getting to an objective - hele insertion, drive by road (personal favourite), paradrop etc.
      4. Basically, the amount of experimentation you can do on the map.


      Dislikes
      1. Not so much dislikes, as things that could be improved. See that section for more detail.
      2. Lack of synching with ACRE / TS3 - a big sign or something that tells people they need to be on TS3 and have ACRE.
      3. Maybe edit the mission startup so that it requires ACRE, otherwise it kicks you out. Same way missions dropkick people for not having the right sections of ACE / maps.
      4. Chernarus Domination: Starting location seems to emphasise use of choppers as transport over everything else.
      5. Chernarus Domination: The MHQs can only hold two people - driver and gunner. Needs to hold more.
      6. Lingor Domination: Lack of variety of side missions. Heard someone say once that there were very few. Not played Lingor Domi enough myself to test.
      7. CLAfghan Domination: It doesn't have one.
      8. Fallujah Domination: Seems to have dissapeared from the mission list.
      9. Zargabad Domination: Also not sure if Zargabad has a Domination. Never seen it, but never really looked. If it DID have a Domination mode, I guess you'd have no choppers (due to small map size) and land vehicles only. And isle defense would need to be mainly foot patrols.



      Improvements
      1. Reactive amount of AI at side missions. Once you've got more than a certain amount of players, side missions become steamroll.
      2. Alternately, better AI on the enemy AI in general. ZeusAI / UPSMON?
      3. Chernarus Domination: Island Defense is a horrible monster - mainly because they drive along roads that are usually shielded by trees on either side until you're right on top of them... and dead.
        1. On the other hand, without Island Defense it's boring moving from place to place - little to no risk involved. Needs to be something to make you travel carefully.
        2. Possible solution might be armored non-AA vehicles and foot patrols?
        3. Maybe MANPADS on some of the infantry. Maybe.
      4. Chernarus Domination: Starting location seems set up to emphasise use of choppers as transport.
        1. Fix by moving helipads further away.
        2. Move troop transport trucks closer.
      5. Chernarus Domination: Re:MHQ transport functionality. Can we switch them to another version of the same vehicle that actually has room for troops? Very rarely see them used, possibly for this reason.



      Wish I had the coding / mission editing ability to do some of these things myself.

      Pepper

      "If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly." David Hackworth

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      • #4
        Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

        Thanks for the first input, guys!

        Of course there are new versions of Domination from time to time.
        But that doesn't means to update it EVERY time. Making a TG-Edit for all Dominations would be good, because you can edit it, how everybody wants it.

        I know Custom Edits, where they have one Domi for each map, and edited them how they like it and how its realistic. In real life i.e. you have more then only 1 Black Hawk, 1 Chinook, 1 Apache and 5 HMMWVs (of course depending on the size of the base)
        They placed "TS3" and "Rules" sign at spawn (which is important i think), they added more vehicles, so you could actually do bigger convoys. They added some "base decoration" like fences, bunkers, gates, Patrols and alot of Vehicles, which makes the base a lot more realistic. You feel like you are at a huge base, and not like you are alone.
        Also it adds alot more possibilities to it. If you edit Domi and add some more stuff, you can do like "everything".

        You can implement nearly all feature of Arma and ACE. You could use UAVs, CAS, real Artillery (with people calculating it, loading the rounds etc), you could do real convoys and all that stuff. This is what i'm missing at the current version.
        Also I don't want to improve the gameplay in general. If i play Domination with you guys, its organized and really good tactical gameplay! Thats not what I mean! What i mean, is to do possible improvements on the Map, to have more [tactical] possibilities, and maybe show the people "Guys, please play tactical here! Its not a Derp-Domi!"

        Also I personally miss the Clafghan, Fallujah and some other Maps Domination (which are actually working and not broken).

        The point of this topic is to improve one of the most-played missions (again, NOT the gameplay, that is really great! Thats the reason why i'm playing on your Server :) ).
        I personally threat Domination like a "real mission", because you have the same possibilities and maybe even more (with the right people organizing it).

        Thats why i'm asking you guys how you want to play Domination, and what could be changed to make it better. Its a often-played missions, with alot of possible improvment, which could help to have more fun and tactical gaming.
        Of course most of you are happy how it is at the moment. But i'm sure there are also some people who would like to have some things changed, like me, to improve the gameplay.

        It still is a Seeder-Mission, but it could be a better and more fun Seeder-mission!

        Also i want to make clear, that i don't want to (and of course can't) force any changes or something like that! I just want to hear the opinions of the people playing it (or not playing it), and maybe we can do some changes, on base of what the people are saying here (Likes, Dislikes, Improvements)

        Greetings
        Andy

        PS: Takistan Domination is bugged, from what i've heard. Also some Parameter Settings on Chernarus/Takistan Domination aren't working. Is it maybe possible to fix them?
        PS 2: With quotes like "[...] which could help to have more fun and tactical gaming [...]" I don't mean the way of playing, i mean the tactical possibilites Commanders and Squadleaders have!
        Last edited by Andy; 03-17-2012, 01:09 PM.

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        • #5
          Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

          I've been on Chernarus domino a few times when we were attacked by a sizable AI force. Shot down our helis several times, killed some AI gunners... And we couldn't shoot back because you get kicked. =\

          Although in general I like Chernarus more, Taki is better for domino, particularly performance-wise/fps. The extreme hills and valleys the roads run through offer excellent ambush terrain, which unfortunately doesn't happen too often. It would be great if there were (more) ambush teams, enemy AT or recon teams at the edge of the AO. But when the AI does perform an ambush, it can be deadly. Urban combat is also usually faster AND more enjoyable, as the enemy doesn't have as much concealment that it can spot you through, like grass and trees.

          Lastly, Taki normally gives me a feeling that I'm in a larger campaign, whereas Chern. feels more like a bunch of random side missions via helicopter.
          "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."
          -Einstein

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          • #6
            Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

            Likes :-

            Easy game style great for seeding


            Dislikes :-

            Teleporting
            Paradroping
            Everyone's a one man army With no class restrictions
            Player map markers
            Grass off ability
            Broken side missions
            The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

              @zilfondel: The problem with AI attacking base... I agree with you. This problem *could* be solved by creating a "real" base-environment, instead of just placing vehicles and repairpoints pointless on the airfield so that they are "easy-accesable" for everybody just joined. You could add a real sand-bag-wall around the base with gates, towers with AI-gunners, AAs and ATs, you could place the rapairpoints on more "safe" and realistic positions and the vehicles and tanks could also be in a hangar on something more safe, instead of just standing in the middle of the Air Field. This are some improvements which *could* be done to make the base looking more realistic and also more safe, because of AI defeding it and Sand-Bag-Walls providing Cover for the people inside and prevent enemy Elements to enter the base (which happend before, and is very annoying, because you can't defend yourself because of auto-kick)

              @BL1P: I fully agree with your Dislikes. These can be disabled completly (there is a settings txt file), without the need of changing them in the Parameters every time.


              @Moderators/Admins: Is it possible to make the Thread open for everybody, so that the posts don't need to be approved by Admin/Moderator?
              Last edited by Andy; 03-18-2012, 01:15 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

                This is a good thread Andy.

                There is nothing wrong with starting the conversation. Thanks for posting.

                Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

                "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

                Friend of |TG| Chief

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

                  Originally posted by BL1P View Post
                  Likes :-

                  Easy game style great for seeding


                  Dislikes :-

                  Teleporting
                  Paradroping
                  Everyone's a one man army With no class restrictions
                  Player map markers
                  Grass off ability
                  Broken side missions
                  Yeah I agree with you,I don't like domination that much,because there isn't much cooperation between squads.
                  Yeah,the avatar is supposed to be like that :D

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

                    What'd be nice would be haing the parameters set by default to what Bravo uses. Time saver!

                    Pepper

                    "If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly." David Hackworth

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

                      Originally posted by daniele20 View Post
                      Yeah I agree with you,I don't like domination that much,because there isn't much cooperation between squads.
                      I'm sorry you have had that experience. From my own experience, there have been many times where everyone on the server has been working as a team on several occasions with great results accompanied by feelings of accomplishment. Conversely, there have been times when it is not organized.

                      Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

                      "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

                      Friend of |TG| Chief

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

                        -What do you like/dislike on the current Domination?
                        I'm on the same page with Athanasa
                        1.Good for learning / practicing leadership skills on small side missions.
                        2.Good for practicing new tactics etc without too much impact. i.e. it's not a 'real' mission, you haven't just wasted your one chance if it fails.
                        3.Different ways of getting to an objective - hele insertion, drive by road (personal favourite), paradrop etc.
                        4.Basically, the amount of experimentation you can do on the map.
                        I'd add a few options - Different map layers; one map that STARTS with a full vehicle set. I'm talking everything and 2 or 5 of them.
                        - How else could we practice combined arms warfare?
                        - It be nice to be able to try out a sweet convoy with troop trucks, armor, MCV, etc. Throw in a AH6 for aircover and we got a awesome force to bear.
                        - Or we can practice rolling in an Armor column and attacking targets.
                        - Personally, I like taking the SOV Humvee with the Mark19. Get a few of those bad boys up and take down any soft targets that get in our way ;)
                        There's lots of things we can't do in Domi simply because it takes so long to unlock the available assets. I'd really like it to have that 'sandbox' option to play with once in a while.

                        The other issue would be that we would need appropriate targets for different vehicles/assets. If we want to use armor, then hopefully we'd have some enemy tanks on the map to engage. If we go with the full combined arms, we are probably looking to engage the main enemy AO with tanks, hard fortifications, infantry, etc. If we're taking a couple troop trucks and SOV's, then an area with mostly infantry/UAZs would be ideal.

                        Yes, there is potential for the assets to be abused and people running off to do their own thing, but thats where we get people into the fold and get them to play with us - otherwise they can find another server to play on.

                        Again, 'sandbox' would be great to have as an option.
                        Q: How many members of Congress does it take to change a light bulb?
                        A: None. There is nothing wrong with the light bulb; its conditions are improving every day. Any reports of its lack of incandescence are delusional spin from the liberal media. That light bulb has served honorably, and anything you say undermines the lighting effort. Why do you hate freedom?!?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

                          Domi, as stated, is great for training and testing out tactics and equipment.

                          Likes:
                          Easy (easier?) to get things rolling
                          Ability to test out different equipment
                          Relatively short missions for when you only have limited time
                          Ability to change squads on the fly/as needed
                          I can always have my beloved M14!

                          Dislikes:
                          Lack of vehicles for testing
                          Lack of artillery
                          Lack of mission variety and lack of randomness of enemy composition

                          Improvements:
                          More vehicles (ground, armor, and air) so we can practice convoys and multi bird insertions
                          More sidemissions
                          Some Randomness to enemy composition
                          Manual Artillery and mortars (in chernarus domi, there are no base plates for the mortars)


                          "You have to go out, you don't have to come back."

                          Dredgeisms: "NO! GoNooowwwBARRELROLL!" - "There WILL be NO desync!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

                            @TThirdSin: That is exactly what i mean =).
                            To have "all" assets available from the beginning, and of course in a realistic count (not only one HMMWV M2 and one HMMWV TOW, but i think you know what i mean =)

                            BTW: I have already written a post with my Likes/Dislikes/Improvement list. But if i klick "post" it tells me
                            Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting.
                            But short posts i can send without problems...
                            Is it possible to disable this approve-thing, so i can post without that?
                            I will just "edit" my list in here:

                            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                            Now, here come's my Dislike/Likes/Improvements Post!

                            -Likes
                            • Open World
                            • Good for new Players (for training, commanding, trying out Weapons Systems and Vehicles)
                            • Side-Missions (they are not "hard", but with the right Commander they can take hours and can be very fun and realistic!)
                            • Tactical Possibilities (you have the complete map to operate, and you can use all features of Arma 2 and ACE)



                            -Dislikes (not really dislikes, more like improvements)
                            • Main-AO is not really "dynamic" (its the same setup always)
                            • Many [public|new] people join "Domination" with the expectation of non-tactical gameplay (they just paradop in, fly CAS without Comms, doing Lone-Wolf-actions | Maybe rename it?)
                            • Base-Layout (no Sand-Bag-Walls, not enough vehicles | Doesn't look/feels like a realistic base)
                            • Parameter Settings (teleport, parajump, everybody can fly, 3rd Person, Artillery Operators etc | Change parameters)
                            • Side-Chat



                            -Improvements
                            • Rework the Design of the Base (make it look like a real-life Base. Add Gates, Sandbags, Walls around base, realistic position of repair-points, medic tent, barracks, armory etc)
                            • Replace the vehicles. Don't just place them in the middle of the air-field. Try to find more realistic positions.
                              1. Jets/CAS Helicopters at the Hangars (CAS Area)
                              2. Transport Helicopters on Heli-Pads on the Airport ramp/apron (just googled it, don't know if its the right word)
                              3. Vehicles in shelters/garages
                              4. Tanks in shelters/garages
                              5. etc
                            • Change the amount of Vehicles to a realistic amout in comparsion to the size and the setup of the base. i.e: 3x Black Hawks, 2x Little Birds, 2x "Angry Birds", 2x Chinooks, 1x C-130, 2x Huey Attack, 2x Huey Wreck, 2x Apache, 2x A-10 etc | same for the vehicles)
                            • ban side-chat use (Don't use Side-Chat for Communications if the radio is broken or you get no contact. ACRE is there to add realism. If you use Side-Chat you don't need ACRE)
                            • Change the Parameters (disable parajump, MG nest, Medical tents for Medic, Artillery Operators, disable Bonus-Aircrafts/vehicles (in real-life you don't get "special vehicles" if you kill insurgents. You have an Apache, or you don't have one. ONLY pilots should fly, thats why you have them.)



                            Thats my personal opinion.

                            On Domination i like the "Open-World" missions. You have the complete map to operate in. You need to decide on which way you get to the mission, and how you get back to base, all the logistical stuff.
                            You have yor homebase, you start your mission there, and after some hours of fighting you return to it. For me its an awesome feeling if you are approaching to base, after you where in combat for the last hour. You disambark, and you are going to the armory first, rearming, talking about the mission... a little bit like "roleplay" (just a little bit). I like to have a homebase instead of starting a mission in the forest, and instantly returning to the lobby after the objective is done (or loose). (Doesn't mean I don't like these missions!)
                            I like to have bases which look and feel realistic. The setup should be realistic and *not only* useful and functional.
                            A reason for why i want to have more vehicles and stuff is, because it simply adds alot more tactical possibilites (also it looks more realistic). You do not need to take the chopper always. You could also form up a convoy with HMMWVs, Strykers, Trucks and all that stuff. You could use multiple helicopters to insert Main-Forces and "Special Forces". You could use Armor-Squads and bring in vehicles for transport. You could use real-artillery, with people calculating it, loading the rounds, firing and doing all the communications themselves (instead of clicking on the map and everything is going automatically).
                            This is what i love on Domination... even if the missions are not that hard. If you have a good Commander (like Dimitrius and Luke) the missions can be as realistic as a "real mission", and could be exactly the same fun. The amout of "tacicalism" you put into Domination is always the decision of Commander [and/or players]. If you don't want to play it tactically, you don't play tactically. But if you want to play it tactically, it can be really awesome!
                            Even if Domination is a Seeder-Mission, it doesn't means you need to teleport, parajump or fly yourself (thats why you have Pilot-Slots). It is still a mission to populate the Server (and its doing this job very well), and also a very well-played one.
                            Also i would recommend to rename Domination, because there are [public] players who just join "Domination" to fly an Apache, paradrop in and do their lone-wolf actions, which could be very annoying for the tactical players (if suddenly an A-10 or a parajumper destroys your carefully planned mission).

                            Also i want to mention, that the few installed Domination maps (Chernarus, Lingor, Takistan) are all bugged (they have several bugs with the ACE-Wounds System, the ACRE-Radio-System and some other bugs). Is it maybe possible to fix them [and make them playable]? Also i want to suggest to install some more Domination maps, like Fallujah, Clafghan etc. People [or atleast me] don't want to play always on the same map [Chernarus].

                            Finally I want to insert a quote of "WarFairy". I found it somwhere here in the Forums...
                            [...] On the seeder/mission point, people join the server because they like what they see. They are seeder maps because they attract people. They attract people because people like them. So why do we always want to change that? [...]
                            What I want to say is, that Domination is a mission the people like, that is the reason why it is a "Seeder". Its not *only* there to populate, people play it like a real mission, and not like a "waiting room" for bigger missions. We can try to make Domination better and more realistic, like we would do for all the other "real missions".

                            Greetings
                            Andy


                            PS: I talked about "more realistic" Base setup. I have no idea of scripting or changing Domination maps, but maybe i could build an "example" base on takistan or any other map, to show you what i mean, and maybe its possible to edit/copy it into an existing Domination map?!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Domination (BRAVO ACE/ACRE Server)

                              Originally posted by Dimitrius View Post
                              I'm sorry you have had that experience. From my own experience, there have been many times where everyone on the server has been working as a team on several occasions with great results accompanied by feelings of accomplishment. Conversely, there have been times when it is not organized.
                              I agree, every time I'm on the server I always see organized events, which is why we spend 20 minutes at the base routing a plan.
                              Every time I'm on a team or I am leading a team I always keep close radio contact with command and anyone else, to speak of our every move, every step, and every sight.

                              My likes are as follows,
                              Open World,
                              Missions,
                              Teamwork,
                              Players,
                              Realism.

                              Dislikes are,

                              Bugged Lingor.
                              "War is not about what's right, It's about what's left"
                              "There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing Innocent people"
                              "If we don't end war, War will end us"

                              Comment

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