Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

First Impressions & ACRE help

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • First Impressions & ACRE help

    The admins have been increasingly been dealing with issues that have been pointing in one common direction. This is to 1st time to TG players joining the Takistan Patrol Ops on Bravo server. The problems arise when they don't have ACRE installed and the coaxing and instructing all need to be done on side chat to help them out. Now let me back up a little here before moving on...

    We only have one shot to make first impressions and as such having guests joining our missions is a blessing. However, we must be prepared to put the best friendliest face forward in order to do this job properly. As things have being reported, this isn't going as smoothly as we all would like. So, in order to protect the reputation of the server in the eyes of potential new players we have decided to pull this mission while we examine possible solutions.

    In the meantime, there are the two versions of Patrol Ops that are set on Lingor & Fallujah if I have gotten the correct information. Plus, we have a plethora of custom missions waiting to be played as well. Now we have a decision to make....

    Can we get it together to harness the value of having pubbies join and talk them through the ACRE set up & bring more players in. Alpha does this work day in & out and our community is seeing the growth because of it. Now on Bravo with this Patrol Ops mission on Takistan we can use it to the same effect. Or we can edit it to make ACRE required. Or we can just use the other versions that require custom content.

    If we choose to put it back on there must be the understanding that we do so to seed our playerbase, we do so with the common task of welcoming those who join and communicate with them with all means neccessary so their first encounter with TacticalGamer is welcoming and kind.

    The decision is going to rest on the admins discretion as always, but you are the ones who need to be involved and take ownership of leading, helping and supporting new players that join us in this way. The admins are here to support these efforts and TGU is gearing up with some really awesome content (I`ve seen some of the lesson plans...exponential growth in the last two weeks)....but it is only as good as the player base takes the support & runs with it.

    Let us know whos ready to go & whos ready to let everyone else do the work.
    |TG-189th| Unkl
    ArmA 3 Game Officer
    Dean of Tactical Gamer University
    189th Infantry Brigade Member
    SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
    "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

  • #2
    Re: First Impressions & ACRE help

    If you don't mind, Unkl, could you please explain why the Takistan MSO is causing the issue? I'm confused as to why a single mission is to blame, I thought it was all missions on default maps?

    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: First Impressions & ACRE help

      The other 2 Are not working according to bug reports....

      Best to remove them aswell.

      Let me know it you want to me alter the taki patrol ops MSO so that it needs addons.

      As for my opinion .. hmm I remade it quite a few times for it to be a seeder friendly mission .. if this has altered NPs ill redo the mission so it needs addons.
      The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: First Impressions & ACRE help

        Originally posted by Unkl View Post
        ...
        The decision is going to rest on the admins discretion as always, but you are the ones who need to be involved and take ownership of leading, helping and supporting new players that join us in this way. The admins are here to support these efforts and TGU is gearing up with some really awesome content (I`ve seen some of the lesson plans...exponential growth in the last two weeks)....but it is only as good as the player base takes the support & runs with it.

        Let us know whos ready to go & whos ready to let everyone else do the work.
        This seems more of a people problem than a map problem. I understand without the ACRE requirement it leaves the door open for additional issues, and this post is obviously a reflection that those issues are reality, not theory. With all respect, I don't think the map is the issue. A few mature people helping a new player and calmly, rationally explaining how we play at TG should suffice. We've all posted in various threads about helping out the new guys, etc etc, I guess its a sad state that as players we can't remedy this on our own.

        I'm reminded of the phrase "This is why we can't have nice things..." Call me disappointed or frustrated, deflated, or maybe just confused. But i'm having a hard time understanding how after so long we can't figure out as a community how to consistently handle new players joining Bravo the "TG way" (If I have to define "TG way" with some adjectives I guess I'll list; courteously, respectfully, consistently and professionally...)

        The above isn't personal or directed at anyone individual or group, its just my views on the state of things relating to actions taken.
        Q: How many members of Congress does it take to change a light bulb?
        A: None. There is nothing wrong with the light bulb; its conditions are improving every day. Any reports of its lack of incandescence are delusional spin from the liberal media. That light bulb has served honorably, and anything you say undermines the lighting effort. Why do you hate freedom?!?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: First Impressions & ACRE help

          I think you should keep the patrol ops on takistan as it is like the default map to play whilst waiting for the server to fill up and because patrol ops really is kinda vanilla compared to most custom maps.

          My personal opinion since i learned the basics of ace on patrol ops :)
          sigpic|TG-6th|ghadlan
          [unit][armor]

          Sure I have flown plenty of choppers, I have just never landed one.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: First Impressions & ACRE help

            Maybe we can have a guide/post on the ARMA section combining the ACRE/TS sync guide as well as the Bravo guide using Sixupdater. That way, everyone can explain, and those with less patience can simply link the forum post as well. Therefore, more people can be of help, while still allowing more patient types to walk through over TS.


            |TG-Irr| Lonewolf80

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: First Impressions & ACRE help

              I hope I say it right; what I see in this action, is that you guys grap that tow at the absolutly wrong end.

              Out of mind, I can remember 7 times in the last 2 weeks, where player joined Bravo without being on TS (<- thoose guys allready had ACRE and ACE!)
              They got informed about the fact that they need to be at TS-Channel and signed up on the forums[and that ACRE and ACE needs to be installed, because we can not read minds if they had or not]. I where always ingame and on the map Patrol OPS MSO 426, basicly because its one of the most used and best maps TG has! Why do I know that they had ACE & ACRE already installed? Easy: No one can install it in under 30 seconds and without restarting his game. 5 of them joined TS and got rid of their red questionmarker. Joind Bravo Cannel and behaved nice, got introduced in the basics, which they need to play at grunt ==> Nice playing and nice missions. Just to, I think the clantag was [JIT] or [JPII], where not responding, got their weapons and started fireing in the air -> someone called admin -> kick.

              And yes, Butlers questions is a good one, which should be answered :) I'm excited to read it.


              Removing this map, actually cost TG already 1 player 15mins after the map was missed and his question got answered by adminteam. He informed command about the fact that his will to play out of some reason rapidly dissapeared and he left the server. well... good start to find a solution.
              And I think about the same, because: when I join Bravo of TG, I come here to a) take place in an event and have fun playing tactical or b) playing MSO Patrol Ops 426 and have fun playing tactical.


              short:
              You guys do not have a "new-player-acre-ace-not-installed-side-chat-information"-problem
              You guys do have the problem of wrong information, what is not a sin in any way, but kind of sad.



              greetings
              world

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: First Impressions &amp; ACRE help

                Tactical Gamer is about working together as a team, and helping each other. We need to do a good job of welcoming the new guys, because it fits with these ideals, is helpful to our reputation, and increases our player base.

                As I see it, one of the main issues with introducing people to ACRE/ACE on Bravo is the fact that you don't have voice coms because of ACRE, unless you are at base when they spawn in.
                So people join and have no one around, and have difficulty reaching anyone. When they do reach someone, it is through typing on side chat, which is not a good way to walk someone through tech support issue for three reasons; in part because of the limits of typed communication, in part because the whole server is watching, and in part because people on bravo generally know they shouldn't be using side chat and so keep it terse- which is the opposite of what a new player needs. (Terse is not welcoming, and not good for explanations.) But we don’t want team chat all over the screen the whole time.

                I am assuming our goals, in no particular order, are: 1.) Want to welcome people. 2.) Want to avoid disruption in the game for players. 3.) We want to avoid too much use of side chat. I am not endorsing any of these as my view, nor saying which is more important, I am just taking note of them and working from them as starting points. I am also assuming someone joins Bravo and is not in TS, so someone in bravo has to help them, both with mods and basic ACE skills.

                Here are some options for how to deal with the problem:

                1.) One Person Drop Out: The instant someone joins who is not in TS, they are required to respawn at base and begin getting that person squared away. The "welcomer" then uses in game direct chat, and in game direct typing to explain bravo to the new player. The upside: The new person is welcome, and the whole squad does not have to watch side chat. The downside is obvious: the welcomer does not get to play, and the squad loses one person for the foreseeable future, which when you are talking about 5 or 6 people on the server, is a big loss. There is a technical problem as well, the respawn timer is long 300 seconds/5 minutes. So even if I kill myself the very second a new person joins, I will not be back at base soon enough to greet him, and I have 5 minutes of staring at a black screen.

                2.) Or 1.(b) Boot Squad Leader. Assign one person to be the squad leader of an empty squad at beginning of the mission. He will wait for JIPs, orients them, welcomes them, builds the new squad from JIPs, and coordinates their linkup with the commander. This is in essence the volunteer function described in Option 3, except that a person is drawn from among those playing the mission, and is assigned at the beginning of the mission as opposed to dropping out mid mission (as in Option 1). Part of their job would also be to coordinate with command regarding how JIPs join the main force, and ideally lead this new “boot” squad into battle. The benefit of this method is it maximizes the welcome factor- the same person that got you squared away with your mods and helped you get the basics of ACE/ACRE is the person now leading you on your first mission. It does not get any more friendly than that, and as a new person, you feel you have a friend by the end of that mission. The squad leader could reassign that duty over time and pass it around.

                3.) Volunteer Welcomer from Outside Bravo Server: Have people who are not playing Arma II, but would normally be sitting in TS in another channel while they do something else IRL do it. Example: Often I am on TS for some time working on something besides ArmaII or I am on the forums, or reading for school, etc. I could sit on TS and bravo while I am doing this, and as long as someone poked me or said something when a new guy logged onto bravo, I could welcome. Have someone as a standby welcomer, either joining bravo as soon as a person not in TS joins the server (this model means the Welcomer would have to notified by the players in Bravo), or already be siting on the bravo server at base. It would be a volunteer assignment. The volunteer would be a designated welcome wagon, and exist in game soley to help new people on the server, not help with mission completion, and do at minimal JIP coordination. The idea is that they can have their main focus elsewhere for most of the time, like work, dishes, reading, or anything else. This way no one who is playing the mission has to drop out, and there is someone there to welcome/explain to the new people. Think of it as “I am doing some mindless work, and if there is someone jumping in, I can give enough time to get that person on TS and link them up with someone there, if not help all the way through.” It asks a lot of the volunteer, maybe too much, but it keeps the seeder potential, maintains the fun for people playing, and makes TG Bravo more welcoming.

                4.) Lock the Server to People Without Mods. Not welcoming at all, but at least saves reputation loss for TG. However, it also removes the main seeder potential of the map.

                5.) Use sidechat to orient the new players. At least tell them to get TS, and tell them to get on the help channel of the TS. It is not realistic, it is not ideal, but it is a way to reach out to new players and get people the basic stuff. The commander could assign someone to do this so that Command and the rest of the mission do not stop for one person.

                Is there another option? I welcome someone to post a better idea.

                I am willing to be the one who drops out and assists, and have done this before on Bravo.

                The conceptual problem is clear, there will not always be someone on who is willing to stop playing and train new guys, as it can take 20 or 30 minutes to square a new person away in terms of mods and then more time to teach them the basics of ACRE. Get them squared away ready to move out is more time. Playing time is limited, and people do not have that time every day.

                The conceptual solution I think is looking at it as an opportunity to develop leadership skills and introduce new people to TG. Thinking of it as a chance to gain leadership experience and give back to the community is why I want to do it. I would certainly be willing to do this (option 2 or option 3). Yes, time is still limited, but we can spread it around between us. Volunteers are rare, but not nonexistant. Many players volunteer time in mapmaking, in administration, in producing lessons, and other things for TG already. We have a base of players who, more than likely, are willing to do this.

                My recommendation would either option 2, or option 3, or a mix of both. I am willing to volunteer for it any time I am on.
                The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: First Impressions &amp; ACRE help

                  Garthra... you're da man :D
                  constructive critismn at its best!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: First Impressions &amp; ACRE help

                    It's a good foundation to construct a long standing building, I like it, Garthra.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: First Impressions &amp; ACRE help

                      Glad the work day is done & I can get back to you all here.

                      @Butler - the reason all fingers were pointing to the Patrol Ops is just that this is the mission being played when this issue is being brought up. I've had many reports come through telling me that it appears to be a correlation. So in the light of saving our first impressions with new players we made the call to suspend the mission while we sort out as a community how we want to proceed. Thus this thread to include you all in our plan to go forward.

                      @ThirdSin - indeed I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Perhaps the issue is not related to the mission at all but an issue we need to deal with head on in the player base. Your attitude is bang on.

                      @Pax - the mission is not gone forever but pulled until we sort out what we want to do together.

                      @Garthra - awesome post. What a well thought out way to move forward.
                      |TG-189th| Unkl
                      ArmA 3 Game Officer
                      Dean of Tactical Gamer University
                      189th Infantry Brigade Member
                      SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
                      "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: First Impressions &amp; ACRE help

                        My two cents on what I do when this happens:

                        I'll let them know they need the mods thru side chat and give them the website address.

                        When they show up in TS up top with the big red question mark, I'll pm them and give them a quick rundown of what they need and where to find it (the links are in TS to registration and ARMA / ACE / ACRE setup

                        Sometimes I get no response and they leave because they don't want to go thru the effort, sometimes they do it all and have a great time.

                        What I have seen from other regular players in the TG server is a "Thats not my problem" attitude. I've heard a few times "oh, they are not on ts, kick them" or "i'm not helping them, its the admin's / squad leads / commanders job" I've been a part of a few missions where the commanders and squad leads (normally the more seasoned regulars) will spend more time working thru new people joining instead of running the mission because no one else wants to step up and help. Its a team effort that we all need to be apart of. We were all once nubs that someone sat down and explained everything to, so we all need to be willing to support.

                        Gartha has some good points and laid down a few good ideas in my mind. Its just getting the support needed from everyone.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: First Impressions &amp; ACRE help

                          I agree with Garthra, but removiming the mission is the wrong way of trying to make something right

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: First Impressions &amp; ACRE help

                            Thank you for the clarification. That being the case, I'd like to bring up that the same thing happens often with domination, however we don't play domination as much. I think the problem is indeed that seeder missions are doing their part, while the players are having a hard time with the learning curve (and by this, I mean setting up of ACRE and such).

                            From my point of view, I have noticed that the most difficult part of setting up new players is that there is no direct method of putting the JIPs onto the correct path. Multiple times I have been trying to help a new player, only to find that using side chat is near impossible, mostly because I can't tell them to go anywhere specific that is both easy for them to find and doesn't turn them away due to it's depth (the hitch-hikers guide is indeed, deep, and usually turns players away... usually to have them just demand the teamspeak address and ignore the need for ACRE).

                            I noticed lately that almost all of the new players coming into MSO and Domination have ACE and the required addons, however they do not have ACRE. Some of them have TS, others are willing the download it. The problem 98% of the time arises when attempting to talk them through ACRE / TS setup. There are many ways that I think we can expedite this process, and while the methods brought up above by other members are sure to work, I think the only good method that would bring about the most success is to create a post here on the forums (stickied, preferably) that would be dedicated to the step-by-step process of setting up TS and ACRE, with points in the middle for a user to skip to if he already has most done.

                            EX:

                            If you already have Teamspeak (the latest version) click HERE.
                            If you already have ACRE, but cannot connect in game click HERE
                            If you cannot join the Bravo Channel in teamspeak, click HERE
                            etc...

                            This way, from in game we could simply tell the new player to visit that thread directly, and then they could sort out what exactly they need in a straightforward manner, and follow the instructions. The two obvious plus's to this is that it would be easy to point to from ingame, and easy to follow.

                            I do realize that we already have the Hitchhikers Guide, of which I usually point players to. The only difference is that this guide would be specifically designed for JIPs who are in the game already, but having trouble with ACRE / TS (which, as stated above, seems to be the most common issue).

                            If you just read through all of that, I applaud to ability to deal with rants.

                            I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: First Impressions &amp; ACRE help

                              This way, from in game we could simply tell the new player to visit that thread directly, and then they could sort out what exactly they need in a straightforward manner, and follow the instructions. The two obvious plus's to this is that it would be easy to point to from ingame, and easy to follow.
                              great idea!

                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X