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Commanding Combat Patrols

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  • [INFO] Commanding Combat Patrols

    This started as a response to Garthra's "Good Going" post in the ARMA archives, but I felt it may have better coverage if I made it a topic.

    Here is Gartha's post.

    Thanks for a fun Saturday night. I had a great time as Misfit 1.

    I would like to wish a hearty Good Game to everyone involved in the Patrol Ops 2 mission last night. (Clearing from Rasamon down towards Feruz Abad with CQB tactics. To the men of Misfit (Bravo) you did excellent work in a long hard infantry fight. Biggs, Axis, and later Mark, you were all fine FTLs. Really helped me out to have you as my right hand leading Misfit.

    Special thanks go out to the medics, who earned overtime on this one, with so many wounded I lost count, and so many supplies used we had to do two medical resupplies. Dimitrius, great leadership as always as Overlord. OPS, thanks for the wonderful armor support as Ironside 1. The air support, (courtesy of LowSpeed and Liquid,) was plentiful and effective at bringing in JIPs, go pilots. I guess the only people I left out are Delta/Rapier. I am sure you were out there putting lead down range too, I just wasn't close enough to see it for the most part. When I did work with part of Rapier later in the mission (Sesks and Zilfondel if I recall) you guys were a great help.

    Despite everything: a slow start for Misfit, numerous technical issues for new players / technical support, massive turnover as the night wore on into morning, numerous enemy encounters, several downed choppers, and the steady erosion of numerous casualties which can kill morale, despite it all, we did it. We adapted and achieved our objectives.


    Here is my response...

    It was a fun time. I hope to be a part of many more patrol ops that are just as fun.

    When I start these missions, my plan is literally to patrol Takistan and clear the area of militants. So far, we've only been able to make it to the Mosque, south of Bastam, but as we do more of these, and the player base begins to glean efficient tactics and maneuvering from their veteran peers, we will, in turn, be able to cover more area during out time.

    I'd like to point out one other thing. I realize it takes some time to organize in the beginning. Up to 20 minutes in certain cases. I also realize there are those of you who complain about the amount of time it takes. My response to you is, that's ARMA. I can't organize a mixed group of veterans and newer players in five minutes. If you were all veterans, then it would be different.

    I'd like to also point out, by one hour into the mission, when the teams know their members, the convoy is defined, pilots have their orders, support and medical are tasked, bullets have been flying, and the action is well on its way... nobody complains about how long it took to get us into a place were we were ready to face the unknown.

    I look forward to more of these. It's a challenge for a commander like myself or OPS or anyone else who is usually volunteering to lead you lot. The challenge is to three fold, in its most refined form.

    1. Get the players in their squads and designate command structure.
    2. Organize assets and the plan in a timely manner, hopefully under twenty minutes, NOT including time on the map screen, which I use for COMSIG and Assignment questions only.
    3. Making it feel like every single man/woman under you is depended upon, which ultimately, makes their role worth living up to, their time feeling like it was well spent, and bolstering their faith in their immediate leaders, the commander, and, always, Tactical Gamer.

    A good operation should make the players count the minutes until the next one. The best operations we have are not because of command structure, which is only a fraction of the overall enjoyment, it also comes from the players ability to operate in a manner that fits the intended form, i.e. rifleman, Squad lead, grenadier. We had a good time Saturday night because everyone played their part to their fullest. I like to believe that motivation came from within, but more likely, it was gleaned from their peers and encouraged by their leaders. TGU should be mentioned here as well. I notice a lot of you taking courses on infantry, artillery, signals, etc. That must also be recognized as a contributing factor as well.

    We are not full time soldiers, time, training/drilling and diligence could solve that completely, but in the interim, we can organize and help each other out instead of complaining and disliking those among us who still have work to do.

    For those of you who are new and are reading this then I have one bit of advice for you: If you have a question about the game, ask yourself this question instead, "Should I take this curiousty to the commander, or can I ask someone in my squad, or my squad leader instead. That guy/gal looks rather engaged at the moment." If you truly believe that no one but the commander can help you, then please ask, but think about it first. "Is this the right time/person to be asking this question."

    At least that is the way I see it.

    These are the musing of just myself; discussion or indifference is welcome.

    And please, come join us during our combat patrols, they combine unknown enemy forces, constant progression, use of all elements of the battalion(support, medical, operational, infantry) and some Serious trigger time.

    Afterthought: I second all of Garthra's sentiments, excellent work Saturday night.

    After-Afterthought: There should be no preference between doing a mission vs our combat patrols, this just happens to be what we did Sat night. Some of the greatest battle scenes we have ever painted were on the canvas of a well thought out mission with members of Tactical Gamer as the acrylic.

    Last edited by Dimitrius; 11-26-2012, 01:55 PM. Reason: To fix the duh.

    Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

    "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

    Friend of |TG| Chief

  • #2
    Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

    All that i can say as a pilot is that Combat patrol ops is the best enviroment to practice all aspects as a pilot transport, CAS and specially battlefield awareness. Thx for having this missions


    • #3
      Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

      I support this post, in content, nuggets of wisdom, and tone. (And not just because it includes my earlier post!)
      Dimi raises several good points as I see it, which I will restate my agreement with here.

      1.) Ask questions to the lowest ranking person you can. Be it your buddy team member, the Fire team lead, Squad Lead, and if no one else is possible, only then Commander.

      2.) We are getting better over time as a community! Let's keep pushing.

      3.) We should focus on how we can help each other learn new skills, tactics, and concepts, rather than simply bemoan that they lack of expertise. We all make mistakes, get sloppy, etc., and we all have areas in which we are still learning. So let's keep helping each other out! Furthermore, let's not pretend that only new players have things they can improve on. I still find myself saying "contact" instead of "enemy sighted/spotted," and could do with a refresher on the signals course. We all have weaknesses that we can work on and other players can help us with. As in real life, there is always more to learn in ArmA.

      4.) TGU is here to help you learn. Supporting members can request private lessons, and we will try to keep classes/practices coming regularly as much as instructors have time for.

      5.) Organization time is not dead time, it is time that prevents you from being dead. Remember, the thing that prevents real armies from taking hours planning each manuver is their shared SOP and constant training on that SOP. We don't have that, as we have day jobs besides training for Arma, so we need to take time to make sure everyone is on the same page before moving out. The way most people can help us get out of base fast is get your own gear sorted ASAP and then help others.

      Excellent ideas here Dimi, thanks for posting them.
      Last edited by Garthra; 11-26-2012, 03:29 PM.
      The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"


      • #4
        Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

        I must say that was a very good night to be a medic,as well as my first time on Bravo, I was completely out of medical supplies, besides one morphine and a few epi (oddly enough, I never ran out of bandages), when we had that second resupply, and was about half out during the first, the first was also when i learned a bit too much about rotor blade collision with players... I will never make that mistake again XD.

        All in all it was really fun, the playercount dropped by about half by the end, but it still went well despite the drop in numbers, we had great leaders (props to Dimitrius for reorganizing us after we captured the mosque) and great soldiers who all did well, and i had a really fun time.

        Also i like what you said Garthra that "Organization time is not dead time, it is time that prevents you from being dead." and i strongly agree with you on that, being organized definitely prevents confusion later, which in turn saves our virtual lives. You did a great job leading Misfit.

        I really enjoy Bravo and you'll be probably seeing me there quite often now, as I had a really great time!
        My terrible youtube:


        • #5
          Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

          We want all players to join us and see how we do things, but we Need players who want the same thing we want.

          Which at the end of the day, is a killer military simulation that lets us do more then just run and gun.

          Welcome to TG, Waffletime.

          Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

          "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

          Friend of |TG| Chief


          • #6
            Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

            hey everyone,

            I wanna give critique here, if it is not asked, or not in that detail, let me know instantly by PM.
            I have not taking part in this event above.

            @ Dimitrius

            the gearing mission, of course, it is arma, but there is a lot of stuff that I dont see happening either.
            a short personal critique on your leadership: you do micromanage.

            as a squad leader looking up to somebody else I cannot make sure my squad being well equipped, the structure and the basic understanding be set,
            when I am out of fireteamleaders, who help me accomplishing that in time.
            making it a time event will not help with that.
            squadleaders or fireteamleaders need to convince each man to follow in a different structure then they might know.

            in my opinion it is not to accomplish a certain way towards the objective, the briefing that everybody understands,
            in my opinion it is very important to give people their own piece of cake, a responsibility, a sector, a purpose,
            that they have the feeling of accomplishing something by themselves or failing at it.
            of course this is very different to give to somebody who has no idea about doing whatever you may task him, thats why
            you need some people around you, you know what to expect from.
            and these people need to learn from those who support the idea of your leadership ( at best of any leadership ).

            that doesnt mean that I dont like people volunteering for a leadership position who have no experience in that at all.
            If I see curiousity from being under him, I will catch that situation and give advice, mostly not in the nicest way, but it is still advice, a present, that you dont have to take.

            If people dont get told what is killing time, in detail, by anybody, then they will not know about it.
            people always ask most the guy who they respect, like, hear talking mostly, because they think that he got the ultimate wisdom to answer it.
            Some do it because it is just simple and some do it, because they need the answer from the one guy that they want to follow in that sitation and they wanna do it right.
            of course people can start asking only the guy next to him, but it will not be satisfying always and might bring confusion by people, like me,
            who have different opinions about something.

            thats enough, good night
            what's the value of so called "tactics" and "teamwork", when I am better and faster alone?


            • #7
              Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

              My response to you, my dear friend. Is...

              Take up leadership the next time it is offered and show us how you would have it done.

              This is how I do things.

              Otherwise, that's the great thing about opinions, Everyone is entitled to one.

              Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

              "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

              Friend of |TG| Chief


              • #8
                Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

                I greatly enjoyed playing with you guys this past week, and have had immense fun.
                I feel like I'm actively learning and progressing in the game and community, and I just wanted to give everyone props for being an awesome group of people!

                I do have an interest in leading at some point, but for now I want to continue learning all that I can, and then slowly moving up in responsibility.


                • #9
                  Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

                  Tim welcome to our community. I look forward to gaming with you.

                  Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

                  "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

                  Friend of |TG| Chief


                  • #10
                    Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

                    A little bit on who should be doing what roles by BL1P :)
                    Following on from what kOepi123 says about experienced players taking certain roles.

                    With the fantastic work being done by the TGU training courses.
                    As an example....We can now select Squad leads and FTL by the fact that they have done the TGU signals course and should be proficient in radio communications.
                    Or that they have passed the Basic infantry course Or the Leadership course Or the Artillery course etc etc etc.
                    These facts should be taken into account when the teams are created at missions starts.

                    People who have taken the courses should be Leading and by example passing on the skills they have been taught by TGU.

                    Im am not saying that Only people who have taken the courses should command or lead etc etc.
                    I am just saying they have shown a greater interest in learning and in the community. Thus this can be used when selecting Coms, SLs, FTLs, Pilots etc all the way down the line.

                    About Combat Patrol Ops :)

                    I have some hopefully Interesting Mission features coming soon with the New version of PO:MSO.

                    A small teaser would be that SnipingCoward and Myself spent about 10hrs working on the civilian and Terrorist interaction system used in PO:MSO Yesterday.
                    And if i do say so myself its looking allot more immersive atm. You will be able to search and Disarm civilians who are carrying weapons or ordnance thus rendering them none aggressive from then on.

                    Also one of the version that will be released is aimed at The dimi Combat patrol Ops style of mission settings.
                    40 man infantry only based PO:MSO with only 3 types of mission possible to call and mission calls locked to only commander.
                    High CQB Pop as default with dangerously high levels allowed compared to Normal PO:MSO.

                    BL1P OUT :)
                    The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd.


                    • #11
                      Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

                      Sry my Engl, dont wanna hit anyone.

                      I like 1st versions of PO:MSO coz it was not same as other missions we have before. But now with parameters 100% inf and 0% vehicles and respawn range 500 m (we play this params since last vers coming) its directly same as Insurgency. But Insurgency have some armor so ATs have fun too, big distances so HMG and snipers have fun too. Now in 50 m from base there is town full of enemies (>50) and 21 guys moving clear town/country and no need AT, HMG, Snipers, CAS, Arty. Only M4.

                      Its not close to reality in my view and not so fun as was before. No job for recon with RespRange=500m, no job for HMG, no AT, no mortars. Rly its same as Insurgency but w/o mounted nadelaunchers/DSHK/ZU23 on roofs and w/o enemy vehs/armor so Insurgency have more fun and need not only close range rifles. In my view its not milsim when 21 guy leave base with order clear country, each house and lose 5 inf and Bradley in base gates. Before we have 35 players (if im correct) to clear 1 town with inf, armor and AA inside. So it was plan how get in, find good OP, recon targets, take out vehs and completly clear from inf. But now there isnt strategy, only tactics how survive in forrest between towns while enemy can see through trees much better than players, look around every second coz u check this bunker 505 m away and it was empty, but now u make several steps and its could be full of enemies, they respawn in firerange.

                      Maybe its only me, but now i havent idea whats im doing here. In Insurgency u need kill enemies to get intel on ammoboxes to blow them up, but there is no task, only try survive for fun and nvm who u slot as cos u need only bullets. Its DOOM, Quake but not Arma in my view.

                      Sry again, dont wanna hit somebody. (I should be SM to have more undeleted posts?)

                      -Are you gangsters?
                      -No, we're Russians. "Brother 2"


                      • #12
                        Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

                        Believe me, being a SM does NOT make you immune from deleted posts....Speaking from experience. You have made some good points and are articulate to where I understand where you are coming from. Never be afraid to say what is on your mind especially if you continue doing it in this fashion, it is not a personal attack nor should anyone take it that way.


                        • #13
                          Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

                          @ chich
                          If you set the "mission type" params to Mixed Standard and leave everything else as default.
                          This version of patrol ops is the same as the 1st version of patrol ops but with no teleport halo flag pole and it has some cqb AI.

                          What dimi is doing is what was intended by the params is to change the whole mission style by altering the params.

                          Using this params altering method especially when v505 is released will let you play Normal PO:MSO or tank based cold war style or air only style or infantry only style.
                          Altering the params will play a bigger role in V505 on what assets you have at base and also what weapons you have access to along with what support the com can call for.

                          Let me miss quote Lincoln.
                          "You can please some of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time."

                          And in the imortal words of The Rolling Stones :-
                          "You cant always get what you want.... But if you try sometime, you just might find.....You get what you need.
                          The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd.


                          • #14
                            Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

                            I've had a lot of fun with the Combat Patrols; Infantry, Armour, little FTLing here and there. It has what I like most about ArmA, fighting where it matters more about your tactics and buddies watching your back than a quick trigger finger (But it does help :)). It would be nice to get an actual task to work towards other than survive every now and then.

                            Leading though, takes a special kind of crazy. It's something I doubt I will ever accomplish. It's not that I can think of the bigger picture, or organize a strategy, set up logistics. It's just when I get 4 people on 3 different radios panicking is when my brain laughs and says, "I'm out." So I am stuck going duh while people are asking for orders, reporting contact among others and my brain just sits there watching TV and goes, "Good luck with that."


                            • #15
                              Re: Commanding Combat Patrols

                              I feel your pain Axis I am in the same boat, I do not lead. I love the game as a grunt and never want to be any more than that . I had my time in RL and stepped up and took the lead, made rank, got medals and commendations but that was then and this is now. I commend those that take the lead in the game and do my best with these old eyes and slower reflexes to help them and my team to accomplish the mission. Mostly I just want to have fun and enjoy the only game that I play.
                              Last edited by ChiefBoatsRet; 11-27-2012, 12:49 PM.




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