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MK 19 Machinegun Grenade Launcher - Arma II ACE|ACRE Howto

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  • [GUIDE] MK 19 Machinegun Grenade Launcher - Arma II ACE|ACRE Howto







    === Pre-Reading-Part ===


    I will discripe the basic knowledge towards Humvee-mounted MK19's (NOT the Bradley-mounted ones!).
    Please be aware of the languagebarrier. Im not a native englishwriter.
    Thank you.


    === Ingame experience with MK19's ===


    (only stuff which happend as I played on the server, so this is what I experienced in the last 4 months)

    ---

    Someone: "Can we take the mk19 HUMVEE?"
    CO/2IC: "Nope!"

    ---

    Someone: "Can we take the mk19 HUMVEE?"
    CO/2IC: "You know how to use it?"
    Someone: "...yes"
    later in the mission
    CO/2IC: "WHO EVER IS SITTING ON THE MK19 GET HIM OUT!"

    ---

    Someone: "Can we take the mk19 HUMVEE?"
    CO/2IC: "You know how to use it?"
    Someone: "...yes"
    later in the mission
    Someone B: "BLUE ON BLUE! BLUE ON BLUE!"

    ---

    If we used it, it often was one of the first vehicles being shot down


    === Why do I write this? ===


    The MK19, mounted or not, is an impressive weapon for nearly every situation, but sadly I can't remember it being used in the past 4 weeks, as far as I played in the mission. And I think I dont have to call the reason why it is not used as often as it should :icon19:. I, personally, like the MK19 a lot when used correctly. So maybe I can share a little bit of my liking towads this machine with you. This is the main reason why I write this. The secondary one is, that I(!) never saw it being used in the right way in one of our missions, as far as I took place in it.




    The MK19 can be used in different ways, for example:
    - protecting convoys (middle security)
    - mobile light firesupport
    - protect special areas as FOBs
    - effective against light-armoured vehicles (HEDP can get through 2 inches of steel armour)
    - effective defense against rotary aircraft


    Ammunition:
    - M430 HEDP
    - M383 HE
    - M922 Dummy Cartridges (weapon function check, train crew) [Not sure if integrated in Arma II ACE]
    - M918 Training Practice Cartridge (the same muzzle velocity, signature, and sound as the HE round) [Not sure if integrated in Arma II ACE]


    Some Data:
    - Maximum range: 2212 meters
    - Maximum effective range for point target fire: ~1500 meters
    - Maximum effective range for area taget: ~2200 meters
    - rates of fire:
    * sustained: 40 rounds per minute (shoot all 1.5 seconds)
    * rapid: 60 rounds per minute (shoot once a secound)
    * cyclic: 325 to 375 rounds per minute (push the trigger, dare you stop!)


    M383 HE and M430 HEDP

    M430 HEDP:

    - Can penetrate 2 inches of armour if the shoot comes with 0-degrees and AFTER hitting armour 15 meters casualty-radius
    - If shot to ground or something else byside armour, walls or other, 15 meters casualty-radius

    M383 HE:

    - 15 meters casualty-radius




    How it should be used in ArmaII with Ace & Acre
    (The training was on 3 different days 2 hours a day; so see what you can use from the following stuff for TG-missions, I tried to reduce this to the minimum)

    circumstances:

    4 x crew
    2 x humvee MK19

    NUMBER ONE
    1 commander "football 1-1" (driver) [satchel charge, 343 radio + 117 or 119 radio, minimum fireteam lead layout, range finder, map, calculator pencil and paper(!)]
    1 gunner "football 1-2" [343 radio, minimum grenadier layout]
    1 Humvee MK19

    NUMBER TWO
    1 ammo loader "football 2-1" (driver, 2IC) [satchel charge, 343 radio, minimum rifleman layout, range finder, map, calculator pencil and paper(!)]
    1 gunner "football 2-2" [343 radio, minimum rifleman layout]
    1 Humvee MK19

    - Units callsign is Football 1 for NUMBER ONE and Football 2 for NUMBER TWO
    - they have their own shortrange radio channel, lets say 7
    - CommandNet LR is channel 26


    The callsigns Football 1 & 2 are only used for communicatio between the platoon units.
    ('Pin Actual this is Football, over.', 'Roger Football, this is Pin Actual, go ahead.')


    The Crew

    Commander
    - He ist the Unit Fireteamlead
    - He usually do the longrange comms
    - He is Fire-Leader (no one fires a grenade until he says so)
    - He is responsable for crew & equipment
    - He has control ober the possibility to destory the equipment (with satchles times 2) when his unit has to fallback and the cars are damaged and cant be used for fallback or they would slow down the fireteams fallback movement.

    Gunner
    - Scanning for targets when not on mk19
    - Protecting Commander and Loader when not on mk19
    - His MK19 is his responsability - keep it working, reload if needed, even when there are a few rounds left
    - report rounds being shoot and left ammo after every firemission to ammo loader

    Ammo Loader
    - when crew at firemission, he is rear security
    - he writes down the amount of shot rounds
    - he writes down the amount of firemissions done
    - he tries to keep the available ammo on both Humvees on 50%|50% especially when there is a rapid area target firemission.



    Example of how the Unit could be placed in Arma II ACE|ACRE when acting as firesupport unit for infantry
    (Patrol OPS II Takistan is maybe a good example)

    - Make sure your six is cleared allready ()
    - Do NOT place the unit in terrain 100% offended towards the enemy position even when the AO is far (800m and more) out
    - make sure that the humvee itself is located in cover of some walls, stones, the richtop it self or other stuff and just the gun can look over the called cover
    - place the front of your car in fallback direction, look at the picture for discreption! Important for immidiate fallback!




    Example of firemission:

    circumstances:
    MK 19s are placed at good fireposition
    All troops are disembarked
    guns are loaded


    CommandNet: "Football this is Pin Actual, firemission."
    CommandNet: "This is Football, ready for firemission, send grid-figures."

    CommandNet: "Target-grid is, line 1, zero-two-eight-niner, line 2, eight-eight-three-one. Correction. line 2, eight-eight-two-one. Wait... target is a static enemy squad plus armed jeep times two. execution times now. How copy Football?"
    CommandNet: "This is Football, good copy for firemission on one times static squad and armed jeeps times two. execution times now."

    CommandNet: "Roger Football, pin Actual out."

    ShortNetFootball Commander: "ALERT."

    Commander searches for target, gets the range and some points in the area for discribing target [degrees + 'Lone tree', vehicle wracks and so on]

    Number One and Two gunners are mounting the mk19's
    when ready, mounted and mk19 is checked

    ShortNetFootball TEAM: "NUMBER ONE, Ready."
    ShortNetFootball TEAM: "NUMBER TWO, Ready."

    ShortNetFootball Commander: "NUMBER ONE, NUMBER TWO, Firemission."
    ShortNetFootball Commander: "269 degrees, 890 meters."

    ShortNetFootball Gunner: lays gun in direction, sets his MK19 to nearest range possible and repeats: "TWO-SIX-NINER degrees, EIGHT-NINER-ZERO meters. GUN LAYED to NINER-NINER-ZERO meters."

    ShortNetFootball Commander: "Target is: one enemy Squad and Armed Jeeps times two, TWO-FIVE meters north side from road going east to west, target locked?"
    ShortNetFootball Gunner: Searches target, checks his range again and shouts: "UP"

    ShortNetFootball Commander: "1 round for adjustment."

    ShortNetFootball Commander: "FIRE."

    Gunners shoot
    Commander sees that rounds missed targets 20meters too short.

    ShortNetFootball Commander: "ADD TWO-ZERO meters, 3 rounds for Effect. Traverse fire left ONE-ZERO right ONE-ZERO. On my command."

    Gunners are adjusting "UP"

    ShortNetFootball Commander: "FIRE"

    Firemission eleminates target

    ShortNetFootball Commander: "Cease and continue Alert."

    Commander checks area through binocs scope or something else and sees no more movement

    Commander reports success of firemission to Pin Actual, while Ammo Loader writes down the number of current firemission(lets say its the third on), the amount of shot round and gets the left ammo count from the gunners. There are no new Firemissions from Pin Actual, so Commander quits comm.

    ShortNetFootball Commander: "Terminate the Alert"

    everyone disembarks.



    --- to be continued (convoy protection & active engagement with infantry on foot) ---
    This is very hardcore, so pls check what of this we could use next time we use MK19's... I mean... its a game.

  • #2
    Re: MK 19 Machinegun Grenade Launcher - Arma II ACE|ACRE Howto

    Very well put together Pax, was all of this your own writing?

    Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

    "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

    Friend of |TG| Chief

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: MK 19 Machinegun Grenade Launcher - Arma II ACE|ACRE Howto

      This here
      Ammunition:
      - M430 HEDP
      - M383 HE
      - M922 Dummy Cartridges (weapon function check, train crew) [Not sure if integrated in Arma II ACE]
      - M918 Training Practice Cartridge (the same muzzle velocity, signature, and sound as the HE round) [Not sure if integrated in Arma II ACE]


      Some Data:
      - Maximum range: 2212 meters
      - Maximum effective range for point target fire: ~1500 meters
      - Maximum effective range for area taget: ~2200 meters
      - rates of fire:
      * sustained: 40 rounds per minute (shoot all 1.5 seconds)
      * rapid: 60 rounds per minute (shoot once a secound)
      * cyclic: 325 to 375 rounds per minute (push the trigger, dare you stop!)


      M383 HE and M430 HEDP

      M430 HEDP:

      - Can penetrate 2 inches of armour if the shoot comes with 0-degrees and AFTER hitting armour 15 meters casualty-radius
      - If shot to ground or something else byside armour, walls or other, 15 meters casualty-radius

      M383 HE:

      - 15 meters casualty-radius
      Is from two different souces, one times the FM 3-22.27(FM 23.27) from the usarmy (ammunition) and the other source is http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK-19_M...engranatwerfer (some data) the rest is tht what I can remember from tier1 training sessions and what I discussed erlyer together with andy(like 2 months ago as we did the tier1 training together)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: MK 19 Machinegun Grenade Launcher - Arma II ACE|ACRE Howto

        You're an asset to our community, sir. I have a love-hate relationship with the Mark 19 because of the blue-on-blue factor. But when used correctly, it can be very useful.

        The Mark 19 cannot be used like the M2 50 Cal.

        Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

        "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

        Friend of |TG| Chief

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: MK 19 Machinegun Grenade Launcher - Arma II ACE|ACRE Howto

          === How to get a range ===




          Well... using my rangefinder for sure... what else ;D
          Oh sorry, gimme a second I forgot to load the battery...


          One of thoose things costs about 25000$ dont you belive every soldier has one of it, like here in ArmaII.
          So how can you get the range byside the mildot system, which is not that accurate at ranges 500m+ ?





          This is the situation. So what to do?
          math... yuck

          - every grid represents 100meters/yards -
          But its pretty easy, go ahead and count the grids on the map up to the north until you hit enemys position level.
          This is:
          a half grid (50m)
          9 full grinds (900m)
          a half grind (50m)
          = 1000m northern

          now count the boxes from your location towards the west until you hit the enemylevel again
          This is:
          3/4 grinds (75m)
          4 full grids (400m)
          a half grid (50m)
          = 525m western


          These kind of think should be done by 2 teammembers so that there is a little bit of security. I know tht this is childrenstuff but when there are bullets flying around your head, peoples dies and you have to hurry ... lets say: its better to have 4 eyes than 2, watching on the same thing.


          Now you go like this:
          a^2 + b^2 = c^2

          a^2 = 525m^2
          b^2 = 1000m^2
          c^2 = is the range we want to know

          calculator says: 1275625m
          now we need to get rid of this "^2" of "c"
          take the radical of 1275625m

          calculator says: 1129,4357m

          well... fire and adjust!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: MK 19 Machinegun Grenade Launcher - Arma II ACE|ACRE Howto

            I think better use maptools to find range, its faster and easy. And not 25000$, calc. Also with maptools and kompas u dont need GPS, DAGR - just good map, eyes and intel how use it to find ur location up to 8num +/-1m.

            ACE devs not removed T-E aiming from Mk19, so it can be used like mortar on big range :)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: MK 19 Machinegun Grenade Launcher - Arma II ACE|ACRE Howto

              I agree on that rangefinder issue, why judging distance if we have a range finder, cost like 20 k US Dollars each.

              I like the idea of using it as a mortar, the biggest disadvantage I see is the time that everybody is waiting to get it ready to fire.
              But I cannot give effective suppressive fire on open terrain, long distance with it. it has low box capacity and its more of an 3 dimensional weapon than an M2 so harder to aim with it for the first 500 meters.
              In a jungle I would go for that Mk 19.

              That there are happening friendly fire incidents should not be the reason not to take it out into the field, the issue is not the weapon.

              By the way the crosshair of the binocular are for judging distances aswell, you dont need to use maptools.
              what's the value of so called "tactics" and "teamwork", when I am better and faster alone?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: MK 19 Machinegun Grenade Launcher - Arma II ACE|ACRE Howto

                the biggest disadvantage I see is the time that everybody is waiting to get it ready to fire.
                When you have a trained crew and a good commander you have hitting rounds the target in less than 20 seconds. Mostly faster and more accurate than mortar, not as strong as a mortar, but hey, tell me another weapon with 15m cas-radius where you can put 60 accurate rounds per minute to a target or target area.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: MK 19 Machinegun Grenade Launcher - Arma II ACE|ACRE Howto

                  what I mean is this:

                  a Mk 19 will shoot fast like 800 feet per second and an M2 with 2600 feet per second.
                  for a point target like 600 meters away, with a fair space in between the targets, not hitting more than one target with one round, the projectiles travel within 2,5 seconds with a Mk19.
                  that means that you fire, wait 2.5 seconds, see the impact, adjust or verify target is destroyed, another second, thats a volume of fire at 48 rounds within 168 seconds.
                  for a point target like 600 meters away, the M2 Ball will travel like 0,77 seconds to the target plus one second to adjust, that is a volume of 100 rounds within 177 seconds.

                  for an area target shooting at 40 RPM, the Mk19 will manage firing for 72 seconds until the box is empty, the M2 will fire for 90 seconds without interruption.

                  so the M2 has a higher volume of fire for point targets and can give it longer than an Mk19 to supress with it.
                  On the other hand it can destroy more of material in the same time, which can be sometimes a benefit, when targets are bundled and you dont need to aim precisely
                  or the enemy is very close.
                  what's the value of so called "tactics" and "teamwork", when I am better and faster alone?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: MK 19 Machinegun Grenade Launcher - Arma II ACE|ACRE Howto

                    You shouldn't be trying to suppress with a grenade launcher in the first place. If you want to suppress, use a .50. If you want to turn that building into rubble or a bad guy into hamburger, use the MK19.

                    Nice thread Pax, like the visual presentations.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: MK 19 Machinegun Grenade Launcher - Arma II ACE|ACRE Howto

                      === How Mk19 could be used for convoys ===




                      circumstances

                      We have a convoy consiting out of thoose vehicles:

                      Victor 1 - HUMVEE M2
                      Victor 2 - HUMVEE M2
                      Victor 3 - HUMVEE Mk19
                      Victor 4 - Repair Truck / MedEvac
                      Victor 5 - Supply Truck / Command
                      Victor 6 - HUMVEE Mk19
                      Victor 7 - HUMVEE M2
                      Victor 8 - HUMVEE M2

                      Every vehicle has 1 fire team in it:

                      4 Saber 1-1 -> 1-4
                      4 Saber 2-1 -> 2-4
                      2 Football 1-1, 1-2
                      2 Medic + Medic or 1 TruckDriver
                      2 CO + RTO or 1 TruckDriver
                      2 Football 2-1, 2-2
                      4 Dagger 1-1 -> 1-4
                      4 Dagger 2-1 -> 2-4

                      22-24 Players in this example
                      (layout for saturday or sunday evening on Bravo)


                      Example for Firemission:

                      ALERT.
                      FIRE MISSION.
                      RIGHT.
                      FOUR FIVE ZERO.
                      TROOPS, EXTENDING FROM DESTROYED COMPOUND.
                      TRAVERSE.
                      RAPID.
                      ON MY COMMAND.
                      FIRE (order given after Football 1-2 & 2-2 are announcing “UP”).


                      Last edited by Pax'Jarome Malues; 12-05-2012, 11:40 PM.

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