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  • Radio comms issue

    After playing alot of Celle which is pretty much a completely flat map I have noticed that on the other maps with more mountains we have no real effective system of handling long range comms that can't reach the receiver due to terrain. So far i have only seen comms issues being handled by choppers that happen to be in between the sender and the receiver.

    I thought I would post this thread as a suggestions thread so...
    Suggestions? Ideas? How can we solve long range comms issues due to terrain?

    No pidgeon carriers or kites accepted :)
    sigpic|TG-6th|ghadlan
    [unit][armor]

    Sure I have flown plenty of choppers, I have just never landed one.

  • #2
    Re: Radio comms issue

    on a mountainous map ACRE simulates real life so the only true way to solve a problem like that would be to move to a higher area to account for the distance and area, so the only way to solve the problem would be to have a sender and a receiver at a higher point in the map.

    if the satellite radio was working then that would be a more impressive way of handling this but for the moment the above reason is the only one that works.

    except for the pilots of course
    sigpic

    warning excessive amounts of caffine may apply... results may vary

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    • #3
      Re: Radio comms issue

      I am looking for creative solutions, gaining height and using pilots is an obvious one.
      sigpic|TG-6th|ghadlan
      [unit][armor]

      Sure I have flown plenty of choppers, I have just never landed one.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Radio comms issue

        If you're referring to Patrol Ops, one way I could think of is having the pilots stand on top of the air control tower in Takistan, or having Pilots and Command on the same group in Team Status and using group chat in replace of long range when needed to.
        Last edited by Puerto; 01-07-2013, 04:57 PM.

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        • #5
          Re: Radio comms issue

          The intent of this thread was to come up with creative ideas that can replace the current usage of text.

          ATC tower is a good idea.

          Edit: Ofcourse if the long range comms is meant between base and the bottom of the map then there probably is no other solution then using chopper as relays, even the relay station is not high enough to reach every part of the map.
          Last edited by ghadlan; 01-07-2013, 04:59 PM.
          sigpic|TG-6th|ghadlan
          [unit][armor]

          Sure I have flown plenty of choppers, I have just never landed one.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Radio comms issue

            BLip has donea great job of using relay stations the problem is that sometimes people dont even try to check commsig and use text instead, Blip and other guys including my self made extensive testing of the relays, the only thing that I can recommend is to actually deploy the other relay to use it

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Radio comms issue

              This is an issue I have thought a good bit about due to its significance to arty.

              Unfortunately, I do not see any easy work around. If the map maker is kind enough to insert a relay, this could help. I agree with Liquid, proper use of the relay can solve a lot of issues. So can being willing to try simply things that Crazi mentioned (getting to high ground, or relaying through air assets/other ground forces). These are both good solutions. So we have 1.) Use relay put in by mission maker, if possible. 2.) High ground or relay through a player. And my personal favorite, proper planning before forces separate can help when radios fail us. I am going to write a bit on number 3, that is ways we can avoid dependence on radios alltogether.

              Planning is Critical
              The commander must be cognizant of the terrain and the likely possibility (or impossibility) of communication over such terrain. If loss of communication is likely, alternative plans can be made. Here are some real world solutions which I think can be applied to Arma.

              Flares/Smoke
              At night flares can be used to signal over a significant distance. (Team A will fire Red Flare to indicate they are in position. Team B will respond with a Green Flare when they are in position and ready. Then Team A will open fire and the attack will start.)

              Time
              Or attacks could be coordinated by time as was often done in WW2, or in special forces operations where radio silence and zero illumination is important. For instance, the commander anticipating being out of contact with both arty support AND a second ground element, could brief at base like this: “ It is now 7:50 game time. I anticipate departure from base by 8pm. The air support runs/arty should begin at 8:20pm and cease at 8:29. No fire support should impact at 8:30 or later. At 8:30 both elements should consider themselves weapons green and be aware friendly forces will be entering the city."

              Combination
              Continuing the previous example, these elements could be combined to good effect. For instance a commander could brief as follows: "At 8:30, the attack begins, following the supporting fire which stopped at 8:29. The CAS pilot should wave off at that time, and go back and get the Chinook. The infantry attack on Furuz Abad WILL commence at 8:30pm in game time. So all teams should be in position by 8:25 observing the target area, and planning their approach in depth. At 8:30 exactly Team B should open fire on targets of opportunity in the town from their overwatch to the south. When Team A hears the gunfire at 8:30, they will move in from the north. If Team A is compromised and unable to advance under B’s covering fire, due to lateness or casualties, they should use blue smoke to signal that. Chinook will fly into AO at 8:50pm for pickup, and look for Green smoke to mark LZ. If Chinook does not see green smoke, pilot should wait at safe distance until smoke is spotted. Red smoke at 8:50pm will be used to signal the Chinook pilot things have gone disastrously wrong, and he should RTB and return with CAS. If and when the A-10 returns, pilot should make one flyby without shooting, to gather intel on how the fight is going. This will also give friendly forces in the town a moment to notice the air support is nearby, and they should deploy blue smoke to mark friendly locations and avoid FF. Red smoke on hostiles to mark targets. Green smoke will be popped to signal the A-10 to waive off its emergency support, and that a Chinook is desired for extraction. Questions?”


              Conclusion
              We obviously need not resort to this planning. We can use relays (mission maker or another player). Speaking only for myself, I for one would get a tremendous kick out of this sort of planning and execution.
              It adds to the adversity and the tactical planning that is required. (Not to mention the added awareness and difficulty for air support and arty!) The lack of communication simply requires separate elements to exercise independent judgment, caution, and forethought.
              The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Radio comms issue

                Discipline would be utmost crucial in such a scenario, second guessing would be fatal, I'm lovin' it. Using what tools we have besides radios sounds like something that should be tested.

                @Puerto I guess set times on preplanned targets would be used, example: Recon team goes in first, spook out the enemy positions and head back to base and report in to the arty crew so they can begin planning firemissions for specific targets in time relation to the other teams coordinated attacks.

                1. 8:30 Artillery fires 3x HE on enemy BMP located near school.
                2. 8:35 Blue team moves in to secure the school.

                Would be really hard to get it right but it would also be really cool if we got it right.
                sigpic|TG-6th|ghadlan
                [unit][armor]

                Sure I have flown plenty of choppers, I have just never landed one.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Radio comms issue

                  I agree with Garthra that some things need to be preplanned and I think if teams had timed co-ordinations it could go really well but to plan this you would have to account for the "bad things" that may happen at any point such as an entire team being wiped out or an LZ being too hot to land

                  I prefer it back before war times when people would use large drums to send signals (don't you miss the old days?)
                  sigpic

                  warning excessive amounts of caffine may apply... results may vary

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Radio comms issue

                    The ACRE radios are set to work in a line of sight refraction (Bola, chime in if I'm wrong). Unfortunately, as most of you have noticed. ACRE doesn't have a working satellite communication (SATCOM).

                    To clearly differentiate between the two, here are the diagrams:

                    Line of sight


                    Satellite Communication



                    Now that the basics of basic between the two are taken care of, let's look at how we can work around the lack of SATCOMs in ARMA2.

                    As someone mentioned, the flat terrain does not require much tinkering to make the radios work (except power). But on more rugged terrain, we need to be a bit more clever.
                    Option A
                    Placing a re-transmit tower, object, magic relay station.
                    Option B
                    Using a dedicated pilot to relay messages from HQ to front line troops.
                    Option C
                    Using a dedicated radio team to act as a radio relay.

                    Yes, those options are not the creative ones but they work.







                    How about making it more fun for all? How you ask? well, let me open my magic bags of tricks.
                    Creative option A
                    Everyone (usually) starts out with AN/PRC-343s. So nothing we can do about its power levels nor range.
                    But with other radios that we use mostly (AN/PRC-118, AN/PRC-117F), we can boost their power levels only when it is required.

                    "But that's insane!" you say? no.

                    By keeping the power levels either on 500~1000 on 148, or 2500~5000 on 117F (tinker with the power settings). You can simulate radio issues at a more *insert air quotes here*...realistic level.

                    Also, it will help you all practice the full radio procedures. Instead of using abbreviate radio procedures. When required. Practice makes perfect, or something like that.

                    On another level. The "squad leader" or the "section leader" should move with their squads/sections at all times. Just because you are the in-game Mission Commander as a squad leader. That does not mean you stay back of your own squad 1KM away and direct them. You need to prove your leadership even more as a squad leader (personal opinion). So stay close to your men, your buddies. No need for commanding behind a mountain.
                    Creative option B
                    Tactical planning for radio operations

                    Mission Commanders should really think about what will cause his communication to drop. Then find a work around and a secondary measure put in place.
                    Nothing is perfect, but going in unprepared...not so crazy about that idea.

                    Ask your squad leaders, chalk leaders, any leaders. To report in at every 5 mins (or more depending on the situation).
                    When passing a Phase lines, or any relevant points where it would assist your overall plan & doubles as your communication check points.
                    Have them report their LOCSTATs, SITREPs, in a timely manner at certain times of the mission. If they haven't called in. Either they are in trouble or they are out of range and needs to take appropriate actions to rectify it. Squad leaders, Chalk leaders, any leaders. If your Mission Commander is not reachable or his Radio Operator, then you know that you're either out of the limitation of your radio settings or that he is dead.
                    Be ready to say; "All stations, This is 11B1, I am taking command, out."*
                    *Let's call that a full radio procedure.

                    Creative option C





                    ... More to follow"
                    Attached Files

                    TGU Instructor TG Pathfinder

                    Former TGU Dean Former ARMA Admin Former Irregulars Officer

                    "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Radio comms issue

                      I find that firing a smoke 203 straight into the air can be seen quite far away.
                      Thank you for the response Lowspeed, ofcourse creative solutions are nice but solutions that actually work are even better.

                      Edit: When/If Ace decides to add batteries for the radios, I think we will be seeing alot of tinkering with the power levels.
                      Last edited by ghadlan; 01-07-2013, 06:47 PM.
                      sigpic|TG-6th|ghadlan
                      [unit][armor]

                      Sure I have flown plenty of choppers, I have just never landed one.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Radio comms issue

                        Last I heard (granted, it was a REALLY long time ago), text chat was to be used for JIP rendezvous (to simulate reserve units having prior knowledge of the situation) and for extenuating out-of-game circumstances like microphone broken. Oh, and a little bit of fun on vehicle channel for long chopper flights is okay.


                        There's been, in my opinion, too much use of side chat for planning and operations recently. Not like :(

                        Also, Garthra's and Low's suggestions ftw.


                        [Spartan 9]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Radio comms issue

                          Originally posted by LowSpeedHighDrag View Post
                          Option A
                          Placing a re-transmit tower, object, magic relay station.
                          Option B
                          Using a dedicated pilot to relay messages from HQ to front line troops.
                          Option C
                          Using a dedicated radio team to act as a radio relay.

                          Yes, those options are not the creative ones but they work.
                          "
                          Good ideas LowSpeed. Simple and effective.
                          The question foremost in my mind is "what will bring the most tactical fun to the server?"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Radio comms issue

                            there is no simple fix to a problem with ACRE radios (and on a higher note radios in real life) although in ACRE the radios can't fry your brains out (see PRC-117 with 20,000W running through it) if that were to happen and the power was that high you would be forced to hang the radio on a tree or some far away area and use it via telephone (and while your at it you could probably gain "super" powers or a tumor) and hopefully troops will be close enough to be able to respond and if not you could as lowspeed has suggested "plan out timed actions such as the destruction of a radar dish or vehicle at 19:00 hours and the troops entering at 19:10 hours" I myself (if I ever take CO) will now try to plan out ideas in advance and give troops clear and simple goals that once complete can be deemed successful and give ideas on what time things must be complete by.

                            Also I think everyone's ideas in this thread so far have been great

                            and someone tell B that I have learn't from my stupid mistakes
                            trial and error and constructive criticisms make better leaders

                            and thanks to everyone in BRAVO server for help making a mature and tactical environment about enjoyment and realism
                            sigpic

                            warning excessive amounts of caffine may apply... results may vary

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Radio comms issue

                              If a mission has a mobile re-transmit as well as a static re-transmit... Maybe the mobile one can be moved from base ?

                              :)
                              The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd.

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