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TG ARMA - Please read

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  • [INFO] TG ARMA - Please read

    Ok people I'll try and keep this down to a manageable size however I have a lot to cover. I am going to try and clarify how works, why we do things the way we do and what the expectations are.

    Hopefully this will clear up some of the misunderstandings that appear to exist and lead to a better understanding all round.

    I'd recommend that you read this if you intend to participate in the TG Arma Community, if you have questions that you'd like answers to or if you simply want to gain a better understanding of how this long running Community works.

    Now over the past year there have been several issues, both small and large, that have cropped up where it is apparent that many do not understand what TG is, how it is run and why we do things a certain way. This lack of understanding has led to a lot of conversations at cross purposes, conflict where none should really exist and some frustration and extra work that is often unnecessary.

    What is Tactical Gamer?

    TG was formed a long time ago to provide a haven for mature, teamwork orientated gamers to enjoy games in an environment that promoted and fostered the type of play they sought. It has fostered that environment through the carefully written rules, standards and processes it has created and through the Primer being pivotal in setting our direction and tone. Metaphorically the rules are your map, the Primer is your compass. Follow that and you will find the right path.

    Now I hope that most people are familiar with the Primer and it is not central to this discussion so I will leave that for another time. What I do want to address is the how and the why of what we do to achieve the environment that TG was created to provide.

    TG was created and is owned by one person, Apophis. It is run much like a Limited Company and people are appointed from within the community to oversee various areas of operation. It provides services free of charge to people who wish to participate. The ability to enjoy these services is dependent on one thing and one thing alone, a willingness to adhere to the existing principles that the Community has established, ie the Primer, rules etc. Those principles extend into the processes we have put in place over the years to ensure the smooth, consistent, running of the Community.

    They aren't optional, they are the Price of Admission as it were.

    Procedures like Contact an Admin were set up some ten years ago and have stood the test of time. They evolved from a much darker age when disputes, inflamed differences of opinion and mob rule were occasional unwanted visitors to the forums. A time when much unhappiness was spread around. As such it was deemed that a process was needed where people could talk to Admins direct and in confidence, a method that gave players a direct line to talk to the Admins that ran titles and know they would get a good hearing, would be treated with respect, listened to and given a solid answer. It has oversight too. If anyone has a concern about how things went in a CAA discussion or simply wants to talk about matters further they can in turn speak to the relevant Game Officer, if the previous conversation was with an Admin, or come directly to the Site Administration. It's a well thought out and regulated process, put in place for the benefit of the playerbase and the Community.

    Now most debates are perfectly suitable for the forums, as long as people maintain a civil disposition, respect their fellow community members, understand they are not the only person involved or affected and follow Admin direction where required. Where it does become problematic is where people get a bit over excited. We all care deeply about our hobby but there are a lot of people here and you are never going to have 'your way' all the time.

    There are many reasons why posts get locked or moved into Contact an Admin. These range from the tone, language and the potential to cause more harm then good in their current format. In addition good ideas got lost in the noise. People got shouted down before they had a chance to fully explain their suggestion by those who don't like the 'sound' of an idea. People in the past have used the forums to try and create a wave of opinion to force a change that want to see etc.

    In many instances these kinds of issues cause a lot of bad blood, often unintentionally, as text is a cold, hard medium lacking tone of voice and often context. Often the issues have been discussed before at length and a decision made, therefore there is no need to go over old ground again and again.

    Sometimes unfortunately people post simply to vent frustration, make an ill judged snide remark or simply wade into an argument because they don't agree.

    Well, the forums are Tactical Gamer's public face, our shop window and guess what, we like to keep that space clean, mature and free of unnecessary conflict. You don't have to agree with that, hell you don't even have to like it, but that is the way it is and will always be.

    If you feel really strongly about a contentious issue, guess what, you can talk to us direct and together we can see if there is a way we can solve the problem and reach a positive outcome with the minimum of blood spilt, because that's what we should be aiming for every time, correct? A positive resolution to an issue that benefits the community.

    The 3rd person issue

    CAA is not about secrecy, though there are times where confidentiality is useful. Take the debate over 3rd person. What if you were one of the people that wanted to play on Bravo but were unable to because of motion sickness type issues. CAA would be a nice place to raise that question wouldn't it? Judging by some of hysterics I have seen in the forums over this issue I imagine anyone who would have liked the option to use this feature is pretty loathe to admit it now. They have basically been described as having 'special needs', as being likely to exploit the advantage 3rd person allegedly gives them, as contributing to the degradation of play on the server towards a less TG way of doing things. Seriously?? If that discussion was had about you in public, those comments made, how would you feel? This is a Mature Community, think about others.

    Why doesn't TG do things by popular vote?

    This issue comes up once in a blue moon and I expect many of you will double facepalm when I tell you the answer.

    TG is a persistent entity. It's values and core concept do not change. To ensure that consistency we have a set of rules, guidelines and procedures. Those have been paid for in the blood, sweat and tears of many players, Admins, Game Officers and Site Administrators. They evolved out of chaos and brought order and purpose.

    So why no popular vote?

    Ok let us imagine a scenario where a large group of players join the community en masse, the Nu Clan. Now the Nu Clan play on the server every day, for months. They swiftly become the majority. The Nu Clan have their own ideas on how the server should be run, how the forums should be managed and what should and shouldn't be happening at TG. They take it to a vote. Our existing players, many who have been here years, who arrived because of what TG stands for, are outvoted. Rules are changed, content is changed, decisions are made, none of which is in accordance with our stated goals and objectives. The Community becomes 'theirs' in effect. It no longer looks anything like TacticalGamer.

    Now, bear in mind that TG was created and is owned by someone, Apophis, who works continuously to maintain the Community he designed. Why would he hand it over to someone else to dictate how his Community is run? Why would the Administrative staff continue to work for a Community that is unrecognisable from the one they joined? Why would people that have financially supported the Community for years, based on their desire to support the product it provides, continue to support it, when all that is torn up by a few people strolling up and having a vote.

    The obvious answer is they won't. The person who owns it wouldn't allow it. The people who make things happen would stop. The supporting members who pay for things to happen would stop, well paying.

    Look around you. See many other On-line Communities, supporting multiple titles, have existed, survived and flourished for over 15 years. Nope, neither do I. There is a damn good reason for that.

    To quote the chap who started it all.

    TG is not a democracy, never has been and it never will be. TG is run under more of a corporate structure than anything. As we have a very niche focus within the gaming world, running the community as a "democracy" would remove the ability to maintain the focus that we want, and instead change the purpose behind the community based on the current player base. Since we are looking for a VERY specific type of player, we need to maintain that focus in order to keep Tactical Gamer the way it was created to be.

    This model has allowed us to succeed and flourish for well over a decade. Most other communities/clans of this type don't last even half that long as the result of complicated governance models. I've chosen not to play that game.
    The future

    I manage the Community and as such I am going to take a long hard look at issues like communication between players and the Administration, work out what is missing, what needs improving and where resources need to be focused. That will take time and effort. I will also be talking to all the Admin Teams and Game Officers about these matters to ensure that everyone is able to communicate effectively.

    As we are a community there are few things I need you, the playerbase, to do in the meantime.

    If you want to have more open debate on the forums about issues that affect you and your fellow players remember that the manner in which you have these debates will dictate whether or not they are productive. Want to discuss something, do it calmly, respectfully and bear in mind that others may not agree.

    Learn to accept that some things simply aren't up for public debate. Standards of forum conduct, forum moderation, Admin issues, discussions about other players etc. That's where CAA comes in if you want to have that discussion.

    To those of you that have never used the CAA forums before, please stop spreading nonsense about the process. It's almost painted as some sort interrogation behind closed doors in an 'undisclosed location'. That's so far from the truth it's laughable, the Admins don't do that, that's my job.

    CAA has worked for 10 years, it still works now and will continue to be used. If you have a query and want to talk directly to the Admin Team that works for your benefit, try it. Failing that just approach them in TS. I have spoken to quite a few people from the Arma Community at length recently, loved it. I was able to help them understand things a little better and I learned something about them and the Community too. Most I have spoken to told me it wasn't that painful and I have even had people come back for a second beating, I mean helping. It was fun, I got to talk to someone as a person rather than responding to a post, it was a positive experience. I have already acted on several conversations I have had with Community members to a positive effect. That is what communicating with the right people, through the appropriate channels does.

    Lets all increase the level of maturity and respect when interacting with other members of the Community, be they fellow players or Admins. You can make TG a nicer place simply by being nicer yourself.

    I am making a commitment to you all right now to make improvements where I can, to improve communication at all levels within TG and along with my fellow Admins, Game Officers and colleagues at Site Level to do our very best to make your time here at TG the best of times. My door is open to anyone who wishes to discuss matters and the door to your Admin Team is always open too.
    Last edited by Wicks; 02-07-2013, 06:48 PM.

  • #2
    Re: TG ARMA - Please read

    Good read, thanks for the refresher on TG and helping us to remember why we came here and why we are still here.


    • #3
      Re: TG ARMA - Please read

      I used to think the CAA was an avenue for "ratting" out other TG'rs, but it's not. It's a tool that we, the players, can use to confidentially convey problems or sensitive idea's to the administration.

      There have been some calls to remove the CAA thread and I cannot think how that would help our community or situation in the slightest. Hopefully, those who have called for its removal will set aside their reluctance and give it a shot. In my experience, it's a great way to open a dialogue with management.

      It's not an interrogation room, there are no dimly lit tables, there is no audio or video recording equipment, and there is no one way window against any wall. The CAA thread is merely a conference room, set aside from the public halls and pathways of Tactical Gamer where civil, open minded, and even tempered discussion can take place. All topics are welcome, within civil reason of course. Taking an issue to the CAA doesn't mean you will get your way, but it does show the people who run this place that you're willing to trust that they know what they're doing.

      I know there are some who will always think that obfuscation of any discussion is tantamount to information control, but that is not the case in an environment that tries to maintain a certain amount of discretion with regards to personal privacy. To sum up what I just said; The Contact An Administrator forum is literally the middle ground where we can meet to discus issues without the asymmetric and exponential misunderstandings that can and do happen in plain ordinary text. Wicks hit the nail on the head. Text is cold, emotionless, and volatile if not read with the proper centilla of objectivity.

      This community is worthy. I've always been able to speak my mind and no one has tried to snuff my opinions out because of it, but I've used the facilities available to me to do it in the proper manner. TS messages, CAA, PMs on the forum, even Pokes in Team Speak. The Primer sets guidelines and spells out the limitations and boundaries for our gameplay actions, but inter-personal treatment is our responsibility to uphold. As is our respect of the environment that we get to be a part of. After all, if a member leaves TG because they didn't get their way, then in my opinion, they weren't ready to contribute to the community at large.

      TG is not held together by toothpicks and scotch tape, it's welded at the edges by pragmatism and re-enforced by proven methods which have helped it survive resiliently for over a decade and will continue to do so well into the progressive future.


      Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

      "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

      Friend of |TG| Chief


      • #4
        Re: TG ARMA - Please read

        Read. Hug your admins…for without them you wouldn’t have this place to game.


        • #5
          Re: TG ARMA - Please read

          My is Dredge and I approve this message. +1 Wicks. Everyone should read it twice.


          KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...


          • #6
            Re: TG ARMA - Please read

            Thank you Wicks. Your history of how things have evolved at TG is very helpful context - especially for neophytes such as I. Your commitment on behalf of all of the administration to continue to listen to the comunity and to work to improve communications in decision-making will, I am sure, keep TG a great place for gaming.



            Canadjun, eh?


            • #7
              Re: TG ARMA - Please read

              the explanation to the question, "So why no popular vote?",
              is an unreal scenario.
              there is no nu clan.
              nobody said that the popular vote should be written into the stone, forever, so it can be revoked in special circumstance , e.g. to when the nu clan arrives.
              nobody said that everything should be subject to the popular vote.
              it could be about server settings only, about maps, aber server rules, about procedures on the server
              and it still can be supervised by the admin team.
              you dont need to answer to that, I dont want a reaction to that, because I personally dont care, why it is not like it could be.

              about the CAA, I have used it some times, some occasion were the only way to talk about the subject, some were not even close to solveable through this.
              I am not taken seriously there, if I am the only crazy guy out there, who stands up for things or talks about things nobody else cares about,
              I dont want to be taken seriously, because it is useless to talk on about it.
              and it is some sort of interrogation. talking with each other without saying your intentions but trying to find out about the other ones.
              I dont want to complain about the CAA, it cannot be working great with the resources that are being used and the way the information is cut into.

              wicks, how can you find out about issues that belong to server things, CAA, admins, players?
              through your admins or the players.
              how can you find out about stuff that your admins dont have a view about, maybe because they dont play that often anymore on the same
              server as the subject is about?
              I dont say that this is the case.
              just imagine that you want the players then to contact site administration like you wrote above.
              this means that you imgagine everyone who has the feeling something went wrong about a common subject
              to wrote to you or somebody elses eyes. Besided that people who have the feeling that their opinions dont count,
              dare to contact that high up and it is highly unrealistic to talk about something that affects anyone, maybe not
              the deciders and to decide behind closed doors for the good of everyone.
              just imagine everyone would do as you described it, to post to the site administration when the
              game officer dont look to be convinced.
              you would have a whole lot more words, letters, misunderstandings and personal-subject-away-leading-stuff
              to answer, if you answer. if you dont answer, there wont be people believing in it anymore.
              additionally it would be a massive communication and time waste this way.
              and it is exhausting, isnt it?

              I think that people consider TG as the haven as it was formed as, but it is a company and as such it will
              prepare itself for the future to grow, to sustain, what a haven would never do. A haven or a clan is
              carried by those who built it or who contribute to it.
              ŽA company on the other side needs to prepare for the case that it is not carried by those who
              built it or contribute to it.

              do you think such an exchange of information, like it is done here, would have reached you through the CAA or would
              have appeared in it?
              I type my opinion here, because I cannot find out if I am alone with my opinion and this way I know that people might read it.
              and I dont want to discuss, it is enough to be listened to, for me.

              @ Dimitrius

              what do you do when there is something that you cannot do?
              when you cannot radio somebody on the other side of the map?
              I bet you try to find ways, learn, adapt. or you go the easy way and type in sidechannel.

              the same you can do with the cold text that can be easily misunderstood, what I agree with, though
              in voice it would have been much hotter.
              you can try to find ways, learn to communicat in text, give chatting rules, adapt
              or you go the easy way and just cut out the many words to the public, that no bad can happen because of it.
              what's the value of so called "tactics" and "teamwork", when I am better and faster alone?


              • #8
                Re: TG ARMA - Please read

                We have had many a long discussion through the CAA thread and we have adopted your recommendations and suggestions before. Not all things ended up with us seeing things the same way but it seems that we have a much clearer understanding now because of it. I appreciate your post above because you have been able to voice your concern in a way that is looking for a solution. Very well done.

                What is good especially about your post above is that there is no inflammatory words or intent. This is the kind of criticism and concern that will do us all well. Thank you.

                Now, the admin team isn't going to be able to give you everything you want. We balance a larger picture than even any one active group can represent. But don't be swindled into thinking the admin team doesn't care about your views and concerns. I personally have been happy to have your candor in CAA that could have turned upside down in a public thread and our back and forth discussion got drowned out by other side tracks. Lets continue to build on that and if the discussion is maintained at a mature civil level we can discuss matters here. The problem happens when the flamers flame and we have to pull out the CAA water truck.

                Really appreciate you coming in from Site level and clearing some misconceptions up. Very helpful stuff and we are excited to have your help in all you do. Looking forward to the next few months and beyond.

                To all,
                I bet we all hope the tone and language of discussion takes a more constructive turn than it has at other times. We all want a thriving community and this takes working together. However, some gamers want hardcore extreme-milsim and some want a tacticalish game of golf using guns and AI. We lean further to the former but really strive for a range and variety at neither extreme. Exactly what that is will become clearer as we go through the next phase. The TG way seems very clear to many of us who have been here through multiple titles and may need to filter through the community a bit more.

                Anyway, I hope we see less of the venting and snide remarking and more of the thoughtful and considered posts that many of you have brought forth even when you were passionate about seeing things differently. More of that please.
                |TG-189th| Unkl
                TG PrimerArmA Game Officer189th Infantry Brigade Former Irregular
                Submit a Ribbon Nomination!
                "this is on par with groups you have to join to get the quality of gameplay and i really enjoyed it" - random dude
                "Remember when the threat has spotted you, smoke first then bring the explosive rounds to bear. When the threat has not spotted you its bang first and smoke after to extract." - Wicks


                • #9
                  Re: TG ARMA - Please read

                  @ Dimitrius: what do you do when there is something that you cannot do?
                  I improvise, using the tools that are available to me, within the limits of the environment.

                  Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

                  "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

                  Friend of |TG| Chief


                  • #10
                    Re: TG ARMA - Please read

                    Tactical Gamer is great, I like the way it is run. May it continue by these values so that it can remain great. Thank you Admins and players alike.



                    • #11
                      Re: TG ARMA - Please read

                      Thanks for the clarification read Wicks. I look forward to playing more and more and more Arma in TG!

                      |TG-Irr| sushi-sacha111

                      'A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.'
                      Winston Churchill

                      sigpicBasic Inf Project Reality BF2 Basic Tanking WoT


                      • #12
                        Re: TG ARMA - Please read

                        I guess I missed all the fun, but I think that mgmt has done an excellent job with TG. Over 1 years and I'm still with you guys, that says a lot.
                        "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."


                        • #13
                          Re: TG ARMA - Please read

                          Good read. I'm enjoying playing on the servers and the guys I've played with were always friendly, welcoming and happy to help out a noob.


                          • #14
                            Re: TG ARMA - Please read

                            Read and Understood!

                            That Being said, as a new comer here at TG if I may offer advice to other new comers?

                            This is a very experienced group of players who run THERE servers in a manner that suits THERE gaming style, which is TACTICAL and as close to REALISTIC as possible in this venue, there are games with a rigid command structure and some with a more freedom. I have played with some of the TG group and have had a great time on THERE servers. Those I have met and started to get to know are a great bunch. I look forward to many more great games here at TG.

                            In short my advice is: Show some respect, listen, learn, and enjoy a realistic military simulator, you maybe surprised how much this style of gaming will immerse you into the game to the point that you WILL duck and seek cover when that round snaps near your head, you may need to change your shorts. :) I personally think it feels very real.

                            P.S. Yes I may be old enough to be your Father ;) LOL
                            Last edited by .Ferret.; 03-17-2013, 08:32 PM. Reason: fixing errors in spelling etc.


                            • #15
                              TG ARMA - Please read

                              Thanks for your kind words, .ferret.

                              For those that are new to this title at TG. We also offer various classes to suit your needs. From Basic Infantry Course (BIC), Signals (Communications) Course, to more advanced modular courses that are suited to the simulation.

                              You can see the courses hosted within the ArmA General Forum, once it is available. Alternatively, you can request for a particular class also as a supporting member.

                              TGU Instructor · Irregulars · TG Pathfinder

                              Former TGU Dean · Former ARMA Admin · Former Irregulars Officer
                              "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold




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