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  • Fire team cohesion

    One of the problems that we have by having gotten used to visual aids to keep our fire team together is having lost which 3 other players is your own team amongst the other player units. This is part if the game in my view and I believe the solution is coms and discipline.

    Coms because your team leader should tell you what direction he is headed out on. He waits a few seconds and runs a few meters that way then walks. This is called rubber banding. Then everyone knows and can check their compass and follow him.

    Discipline because no one should move until the move is ordered and you fall in covering your sector. The leader may designate someone else on point but otherwise you wait for him to move & follow.

    With that in place and practiced its easy to keep your team together.

    This is some of the basics and TGU will be adding in more in this thread and others.

    See u in game.
    |TG-189th| Unkl
    ArmA 3 Game Officer
    Dean of Tactical Gamer University
    189th Infantry Brigade Member
    SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
    "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

  • #2
    Re: Fire team cohesion

    Thank you sir, direct and to the point. Even I grasped it quickly, now to add it to my growing number of post it's around my monitor.

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    • #3
      Re: Fire team cohesion

      This game and community aim to simulate the real thing. And this is one of the hardest parts of leadership in the real military. One of the hardest things a real TL or SL does is keeping track and accountability of all of his men.

      This is A LOT harder than people realize, especially at night.

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      • #4
        Re: Fire team cohesion

        I cant imagine how hard this is in RL. However, I do know that this theory gets put to the test at first contact. Don't even get me started in urban environments.

        My recent experience is that players have played loosey goosey with FT cohesion for too long. While this can populate a server with "do what u feel man" players, it doesnt help us with our overall aims. These players are mature gamers but some have been unwilling to either do one of two things...

        A) Insist team members follow team structure and follow the leaders movements.

        B) Communicate to higher what their situation and intentions are. This is essential to having a COC (Chain Of Command) that CAN keep an overall view & strategy.

        Its not my intention to call anyone out. I've been guilty of this style of leadership. Its just counter productive.
        |TG-189th| Unkl
        ArmA 3 Game Officer
        Dean of Tactical Gamer University
        189th Infantry Brigade Member
        SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
        "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

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        • #5
          Re: Fire team cohesion

          It is very hard to maneuver a squad in RL. I've been fighting my A3 controls a bit (Walk-Run-Sprint & Combat Stance) but can do a better job communicating in group. Another item to consider is always have SL or FTL hold a meeting with just his folks before moving out, on the map. I'm a newcomer here and see this about 50% of the time. This is a great mature group of players, will strive better to meet A & B. Thanks for the leadership.
          sigpic
          CMWARTIME

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          • #6
            Re: Fire team cohesion

            Good points I always thought TL or SL should be calling out speeds aswell.

            walking , combat , fast.

            It is always a pain trying to watch your TL who is an exact twin to every other TL btw. but not only that to guess which speed hes in and if hes about to go right or left at a new speed. Whilst watching for enemy's at the same time.

            The best TLs to follow in a formation for me always picked a speed and direction then stuck to that until they called a new one.

            The game problem of everyone being same height, same weight and wearing the same uniform was only solved with SThud. (unless ya want the magic floating ugly hexagons :) )
            The path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd.

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            • #7
              Re: Fire team cohesion

              I do not know if it is due to this thread, but today I saw superior discipline. It was refreshing and super easy to lead what seemed to be professional soldiers tonight. Consequently, super awesome fun gaming today filled with intense firefights and insane amount of tactical action.

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              • #8
                Re: Fire team cohesion

                So....I need to "feel" the need for discipline I guess.
                sigpic

                Canadjun, eh?

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                • #9
                  Re: Fire team cohesion

                  Over the years here at TG, I've helped write many of the original SOPs we adopt for ArmA gameplay. Unkl brings up a good point here that I too have been frustrated with.

                  My take away is a simple solution -- the TL/SL calls the movement and the element members repeat it.

                  This is important because unlike in RL, you don't have the benefit of many of the highly sensitive situational awareness clues. So if you're covering the six, you're not going to hear footsteps or have the peripherals to notice the element started to move again.

                  So, the lead should start with "Moving" ... followed by each member repeating the command. If this is done in Direct, even the last guy will receive the message as it's passed down the line.

                  The same practice would apply for stopping/holding or stance -- including any change in direction or maneuver.
                  sigpic
                  I run my $#@! new school style with old school roots...

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                  • #10
                    Re: Fire team cohesion

                    At night, even under nods, we do this.

                    "Highly sensitive situational awareness" is ruined at night by nods and peltor's. We rely on cue's such as audio sound-offs and things as easy as paying attention, and not getting lost in security.

                    When in a movement, try increasing your FOV. This is a trick I use to help me know what's going on.

                    That being said, I don't move unless my TL does, unless I'm trying to get a vantage point. I'm not going to pull security from a hole, but I'm not going to move 10 or more meters from my position either. And as far as comms go, Arma really cheats it usually. TL's and up have comms, everyone else must rely on their TL to pass information along, if they deem it important.

                    Usually, the TL will wait for a hold and then move to each one of his guys individually (we are always pulling security) and explain what is going on and answer any questions. And at every hold he tells us our sector of fire, using his IR laser.

                    I may be getting off topic, but the point here is that this type of deal isn't limited to the game, and I don't want people to label arma as "having bad situational awareness". It's actually more accurate then you think. But the solution is the same as it is in RL. Communication, discipline, and a TL who is in full control.

                    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

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                    • #11
                      Re: Fire team cohesion

                      I like setting a point man and following in the second or third spot as the TL. I also prefer column or wedge formations as it is easier to keep one other team member or buddy in direct sight at all times. The fatigue factor and weapons accuracy improve with frequent "rest" stops and team cohesion is easier to achieve when you can spend more time in direct communication. I think what we all have trouble with is the lack of peripheral vision and can it be much longer until virtual displays solve this problem (Oculus Rift and others).

                      Does anyone here play with an Eyefinity and does it address their peripheral vision issues?
                      Forewarned is Forearmed




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                      • #12
                        Re: Fire team cohesion

                        For me, Trackir is the lowest cost, highest return (hardware) mechanism to improve situational awareness. For flying I now call it essential, for infantry combat its very nice to have but does take some practice to deploy effectively. That said trackIR or wider FOV enabled by displays will allow you to see more, or see more easily, or quickly. The fundamental enabler however is still communication and discipline.

                        On the topic of movement however.... ARMA 3 has made it more difficult to communicate and match movement speed. There are many variants of stance and pace that will effect speed, fatigue based on what combination is selected. I can't tell you how many times I've seen guys trekking across the terrain crouched weapon up only to be dead tired and falling behind 2 minutes later. Standing, Crouched. Weapon up, down, or sights, Combat pace or not. Walking or not. I won't even get into the 'sub' stances (stand adjust). I wonder if it would be beneficial to isolate some of the most commonly used combinations and give them easy to communicate aliases.

                        For example.... for longer treks across terrain where threat level is low. Standing - weapon down - combat pace which results in a casual jog is best. Perhaps this could be formally defined and called out as "Casual Pace" or something like that...where by everyone knows exactly what permutation of stance and speed adjustment to dial to reach the target pace.

                        For another thread I'm sure.... But perhaps the TG admin team may want to think about 'standard' movement pro-forma specific to the new A3 complexities spelled out in a community document of sorts for new players (and the community in general) to learn an then adhere to in game. Sorry if this already exists and I've neglected to notice!!


                        An example could be something like.....

                        Move - 240 - casual pace = Standing, weapon down, combat pace enabled

                        Move - 240 - Cautious (can specify standing, crouched) = standing/crouched, weapon up

                        Move - 240 - sprint (easy!)

                        Move - 240 - CQB = standing, weapon up, combat pace (or sights up), walk
                        Last edited by CanaDave; 09-08-2013, 11:14 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Fire team cohesion

                          The military have the equivalent of marches to match rhythm among soldiers, perfecting both pace and cohesion to a certain formation. I suggest concise orders on speed, maybe a buddy system, perhaps a precise formation where units are close (to check on each other) or enforcing instinctive examination of where everyone is.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Fire team cohesion

                            thats a good one, unkl, ryker.
                            fighting against these basic problems for 3 years now?
                            echoing is a very good method.
                            what's the value of so called "tactics" and "teamwork", when I am better and faster alone?

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                            • #15
                              Re: Fire team cohesion

                              Personally I think one of the main issues is a lack of ability to identify individuals with nametags and squad markers off, I would generally think that in RL one would be able to distinguish squadmates by sight or voice, in ARMA and with limited signals(you have to be looking really close at someone's face to see if they're using coms) it becomes that much harder. Personally I don't think having the nametags come up under examination is too unrealistic(although I do agree that the squad member hud markers are a bit much). Another option if everyone is opposed to having nametags off is to have team leader markers on the map. I've seen several servers going for 'tactical realism' do it to great effect as it allows for fireteams to be cohesive, and a squad to be much more spread out than it would otherwise, and resolves some of the muddling together effect that you see.

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