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  • Reloading

    Perhaps the amount of free time I have is exposed when I suggest a mod that enforces manual reloading in Arma. For those of you who don't know, manual reloading (in regards to Arma) is a term that I made up for a technique no one uses! :D Manual reloading is when you open inventory, stuff your empty mag into your pack and pull a new mag into your gun's magazine slot to reload. I unbound my reload key this afternoon and played around in the editor. Have to say, manual reloading adds a bit of chaos to the virtual firefights we're used to.

    I can think of three practical uses for a mod that would enforce this. One, it would ultimately force people to spend their rounds wisely. Two, it would stop people from reloading on the move (since it would be impossible). Three, it would behoove people to find GOOD COVER before returning fire, instead of dropping where they are.

    Thoughts? Has this been thought of already? Too much tacticool realism?
    Last edited by Hummel; 01-20-2016, 05:45 PM. Reason: learned how to count

  • #2
    Re: Reloading

    Also, dragging empty mags into any inventory space deletes them, so I guess you might as well throw them on the ground (or, if that causes frames to drop, don't).

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    • #3
      Re: Reloading

      I'm not sure about that. I kind of agree, but only to some extent. Let's start with why I do agree:

      It takes about 3 seconds to reload most weapons in ArmA (regardless of stance). It would be a reasonable time if you were on a range, had the magazine prepared (either in an open-top pouch or on a table), and were just practicing reloading. You may be even faster. However, in combat situation there will be a lot of stress and confusion, you may have both full and empty mags so you want to pick the right one, your magazine pouches would probably have a buckle or other type or retention to keep the mags from falling out so you have to undo it first, you also want to secure the old magazine, all that while wearing a ton of gear that restricts your movement... so it all adds up. And I fully agree that vanilla reloads are too fast.

      Why I don't think that opening your inventory and "manually" reloading is a good idea, is primarily because of loss of immersion. If you are in a virtual firefight you are trying to concentrate on movement, firing and communication. Even though it is not real, it feels quite intense and then... you open up a window to move some icons around in order to reload your gun (combat drag-and-drop?). I know it's a game, but from my perspective it is best to minimize interaction with the UI to get the best experience.

      So my solution would be to simply increase reload time. Hopefully there is some kind of script that can slow down animations, which would be perfect. I think it would be reasonable to have a 6 second standing reload, 7 second crouching reload and a 10 second prone reload. We could even get deeper into it, and further reduce reload speed based on stamina, wounds, movement etc., but I feel like it might be too much.

      One place where I would agree with reloading through the inventory menu is when you are trying access ammo in the backpack. Additionally, on top of your 6-10 second reload you would have an additional 5 second animation.

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      • #4
        Re: Reloading

        Originally posted by Lord Shenanigan View Post
        Why I don't think that opening your inventory and "manually" reloading is a good idea, is primarily because of loss of immersion. If you are in a virtual firefight you are trying to concentrate on movement, firing and communication.
        I disagree. In combat, you usually aren't maintaining battle awareness when you're reloading (depending on how familiarized with your gear you are). You're looking at your gun, your pouch if you have one, you're looking for a new mag to choose, and you're looking at your gun while you insert a new mag. If anything, this adds importance to moving to get to cover so you can reload with relative safety. Even more so for communicating, because now it takes you much longer in this scenario to reload -- So, I dare you NOT to yell out "I'm reloading!" when you have to mess around with your inventory.

        One place where I would agree with reloading through the inventory menu is when you are trying access ammo in the backpack. Additionally, on top of your 6-10 second reload you would have an additional 5 second animation.
        If I were to scale the hypothetical mod down to that, I would have the reload button open a GUI which says "Reload from vest/Reload from pack" when you have ammo in your vest and pack. I agree with the timing.


        I also thought of another practical use for this -- It would add more incentive to carry a sidearm. Instead of fooling around with interface, scroll and pull out another weapon.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Reloading

          3 seconds seems ok for reloads from vest or belt. The marine grunts in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2_qo5_wSa8) seem to have about that time down.

          I wouldn't object, in theory, to a delay in getting ammo from your backpack, but that sort of thing tends to head into the weeds fast. As long as we can revive people from bullet wounds with a combination of a Jedi Mind trick and a salt shaker mime routine - all other "realism" concerns can get in the back of the line :)

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          • #6
            Re: Reloading

            Originally posted by Hummel View Post
            I disagree. In combat, you usually aren't maintaining battle awareness when you're reloading ...
            I've never been in a real firefight but I don't think that is a good idea. If you are going to stop and reload you don't want to lose track of what is going on around you. Also, you don't have to look at your pouch because you should know where it is. Looking at the magazine also doesn't make much sense because they all look the same; instead, you pick the right one based on which pouch it's in and its weight (full vs empty). You should probably look at the magazine right before inserting it into the weapon to make sure it is not covered in mud, damaged etc., but it's just a quick glance.

            Originally posted by Hummel View Post
            If I were to scale the hypothetical mod down to that, I would have the reload button open a GUI which says "Reload from vest/Reload from pack" when you have ammo in your vest and pack.
            That would work. Or maybe have separate keybinds for reloading from vest and backpack.

            Originally posted by Hummel View Post
            I also thought of another practical use for this -- It would add more incentive to carry a sidearm. Instead of fooling around with interface, scroll and pull out another weapon.
            Good point. I can't even remember the last time I used a sidearm.

            Originally posted by Noyava
            3 seconds seems ok for reloads from vest or belt. The marine grunts in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2_qo5_wSa8) seem to have about that time down.
            They are fast, but that's under ideal conditions. They dropped their magazines in the dirt (it's a valid method, but only in emergency or certain situations) so that saved them at least 2 seconds. And they already had open magazine pouches which probably saved them 1/2 to 1 second. Most importantly, they were not in combat. The only thing they were concerned about was reloading their weapons.

            Originally posted by Noyava
            I wouldn't object, in theory, to a delay in getting ammo from your backpack, but that sort of thing tends to head into the weeds fast. As long as we can revive people from bullet wounds with a combination of a Jedi Mind trick and a salt shaker mime routine - all other "realism" concerns can get in the back of the line
            True. Although this conversation is about a hypothetical mod that could be used in a more realistic modset (e.g. ACE3 with advanced medical system = no more Jedi mind tricks), so I think it is something worth discussing.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Reloading

              Originally posted by Lord Shenanigan View Post
              I've never been in a real firefight but I don't think that is a good idea. If you are going to stop and reload you don't want to lose track of what is going on around you. Also, you don't have to look at your pouch because you should know where it is. Looking at the magazine also doesn't make much sense because they all look the same; instead, you pick the right one based on which pouch it's in and its weight (full vs empty). You should probably look at the magazine right before inserting it into the weapon to make sure it is not covered in mud, damaged etc., but it's just a quick glance.
              It was a long-winded way of saying you glace down long enough to take your attention from the fight, even if it's only a second. A lot can happen in a short amount of time.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Reloading

                Well purely hypothetically - I'd want to press R for a careful reload, place mag into pouch for later reload/use and check weapon correctly. Or double tap R to reload fast as possible and send my used mag flying. Cause if I'm getting shot at, I don't care about a spent mag. Not even a little.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Reloading

                  Originally posted by Noyava View Post
                  Well purely hypothetically - I'd want to press R for a careful reload, place mag into pouch for later reload/use and check weapon correctly. Or double tap R to reload fast as possible and send my used mag flying. Cause if I'm getting shot at, I don't care about a spent mag. Not even a little.
                  But, if you single-tap R, an empty mag is thrown into your pack and deleted anyways. Hence, you reloaded slowly for no reason.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Reloading

                    In vanilla, yes. Because what use is an empty mag? There is no mechanic for reloading mags from an ammo box or lose rounds. And don't even think about suggesting there should be :p

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                    • #11
                      Re: Reloading

                      of course not. the whole concept of throwing them out is to add seconds to your reload time. But I do think you should be able to re-pack partial magazines using ammo from other partial magazines, only it takes a long time.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Reloading

                        MCC missions have a mag repack script :)

                        Use Shift+WinKey to access your self interaction menu to use it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Reloading

                          Originally posted by Hummel View Post
                          It was a long-winded way of saying you glace down long enough to take your attention from the fight, even if it's only a second. A lot can happen in a short amount of time.
                          Well yes, but there is little bit more to it. If you stand behind a brick wall, shooting at distant targets you may just keep your eyes on the target and watch for any movement on the flanks as you reload; on the other hand if you are getting shot at and duck behind cover you may not be able to observe the enemy, but at least you can look around and take a mental note of friendly positions so you have a better understanding of the situation.

                          Originally posted by Noyava View Post
                          Well purely hypothetically - I'd want to press R for a careful reload, place mag into pouch for later reload/use and check weapon correctly. Or double tap R to reload fast as possible and send my used mag flying.
                          I've seen that in some game and I would love to have that option in ArmA (I'm not sure if there's a mod that does that).

                          Originally posted by Hummel View Post
                          But, if you single-tap R, an empty mag is thrown into your pack and deleted anyways. Hence, you reloaded slowly for no reason.
                          If there was a mod that does that it could have two settings: 1) casual: empty mags are automatically "fast reloaded" and thrown away to save time; 2) mil-sim: empty mags go back to your vest/pack (you could reload them later) unless you double tap R.

                          Originally posted by Hummel View Post
                          But I do think you should be able to re-pack partial magazines using ammo from other partial magazines, only it takes a long time.
                          There are mods/scripts that do that and I find it very useful. Especially if you go for couple of hours without respawn or resupply.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Reloading

                            I concur

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Reloading

                              Originally posted by Hummel View Post
                              of course not. the whole concept of throwing them out is to add seconds to your reload time. But I do think you should be able to re-pack partial magazines using ammo from other partial magazines, only it takes a long time.
                              Just think of vanilla as a buy now but pay later scheme then lol. You can reload fast now and then later you spend all your time switching between 2-4 round mags :row__689:

                              A mag repack script is definitely a nice touch. I'm not sure I'm sold on the inventory system of reloading. Seems a bit like adding some of the klunkyness back in that A3 has been working hard to remove. I do agree that reloads are so fast that it's not even worth calling your reloads and that is a shame. There isn't much incentive for using your buddy system when firing. But the inventory system would not be my first choice for a correction.

                              Good run up the flag pole however. Thanks Hummel.
                              |TG-189th| Unkl
                              ArmA 3 Game Officer
                              Dean of Tactical Gamer University
                              189th Infantry Brigade Member
                              SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
                              "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

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