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  • Time for a rant.

    Before I type all this out, a disclaimer: I never have and never will experience combat. This is my understanding of how things are supposed to work, so if I'm wrong, correct me, and I'll shut up.

    I think most people who I play Arma with are wrong, from the rifleman down to the AR. Suppression DOES NOT mean that you take your time, find exactly who your target is, and try for 100% accuracy. That’s what SDM’s are for, and they do it well. The point of suppression is to tell your enemy “We know you’re there, and once we find you, you’re freaking DONE”. The way you do that is by shooting. A LOT. Once someone calls out a bearing and a distance (after receiving fire), everyone’s job is to shoot in that direction.

    If no specific person has been designated as an automatic rifleman, everyone should be suppressing except for the person who spotted the contact (who should be trying to kill the threat using point fire). In this way, an enormous amount of lead is sent towards the enemy, and you have successfully suppressed them, allowing someone (anyone) to pinpoint their location and take care of business.

    Too many times have I been with a team when we take fire, only to be wiped out because our aggression was non-existent. Not everyone can get the kill shot, but that’s what everyone hunts for. If everyone takes their sweet time, everyone dies. Plain and simple.

    “But where do you draw the line between suppressing fire and fire superiority?”

    When you stop hearing bullets crack on their way past your face (or when that noise is reduced), you know your enemy needs a new order of standard-issue trousers. At that time, those who are capable (or those who have been told) should switch to accurate point fire.
    This is an airsoft match (with live firefight audio dubbed over for some reason). This is what your suppressing fire should look and feel like on the receiving end.

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/qqgjg1rIKAk

    Simply put, if it doesn’t look like this from the bad guy’s POV, you’re not in a winning fight. Notice how BB’s are flying everywhere, and if you were a rational person, you would seek cover (in a firefight). This is how I understand suppression works. Regardless of whether AI are affected by suppression mechanics, it should still happen to increase the chance that one of those buggers get hit by a stray round.

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    Re: Time for a rant.

    This. 100%. I get asked all the time what Im shooting at and it is windows that a threat could come from when YOU are crossing a street. It is through the bushes when an enemy is in concealment.

    There is a lot to discuss on this point! Truth is we are sometimes limited by a few players taking on a mission made for more players and we need to conserve supplies.

    I can count how often I will run out of ammo but still supress like crazy. It does make coms harder...but that is secondary when you are receiving fire.
    |TG-189th| Unkl
    ArmA 3 Game Officer
    Dean of Tactical Gamer University
    189th Infantry Brigade Member
    SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
    "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

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    • #3
      Re: Time for a rant.

      I watched plenty of videos of suppression against AI which was added so many months ago, I was able to suppress an AI myself for several minutes without taking a hit at all in short range, I got bored and quit... but that's assuming the rounds hit close enough I suppose. I don't like the AR role but I sometimes jump on it just to do this, who doesn't want to shoot 2000 rounds in a fight? It's a lot like Unkl said though, the way we make missions is that we have to kill 200 ei and revive each and every one of us like 5 times each before we are rearming, except for in our 1Life missions, and that we choose missions too difficult in numbers
      Last edited by Xorilliz; 03-13-2016, 09:24 PM. Reason: *
      - Current ArmA Pathfinder

      sigpic

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      • #4
        Re: Time for a rant.

        I was one of the AR this afternoon, i carry a lot of ammo,enough to tire quickly. i fire when ordered and I do so until I don't see any movement or return fire then I scan and wait for contact reports. I am not attached to an ammo truck so continuous fire is not always possible but what I will do from now on is ask my leader what he wants for suppression because our ideas may not be the same. I can fire until I run out of ammo , I am here to please. I for one have never played Arma for anything but teamwork to complete the mission, I never have or ever will know what my K/D rate is. I don't play to collect trinkets and level up I am here for my team.

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        • #5
          Re: Time for a rant.

          This is what plays in my head EVERY time someone says "suppressing fire".



          With that out of they way... I do think its an effective tactic that isn't used enough. As to the mission flow not being good for it, maybe people require reviving so often if they got the ENEMY down first? I'll try it next time I'm playing (not dying) as I'm usually the first one down in a firefight.

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          • #6
            Re: Time for a rant.

            Here is the other thing...(now I'm not on my phone)...is that AI do react to incoming fire. Perhaps not as dramatically as they could but they do. You watch an AI running across open ground and they don't stop unless they are in "combat" mode. Then they actually follow the 5 second rule. (I'm up, I'm running, I'm seen, I'm down)

            But you put a few rounds in their vicinity then you see them stop and drop. They scan and look for the contact and sometimes pop a smoke nade. When they stop that is when your point fire fire team members take their accurate shots...it is the team's effort that must immediately put enough rounds down range that the enemy movement ceases and they are also unable to return accurate fire...when that happens your riflemen can take the elimination shots.

            This works on players and the Arma AI. It is also how we play according to our primer. Each situation is different, and you need an accurate order from your leader on what the ROE (Rule of Engagement) are for the mission and what your Actions on Contact will be...hopefully prior to leaving your base. Are their civilians in the AO? Are their friendlies to check fire for? These things also dictate how your team should react.
            |TG-189th| Unkl
            ArmA 3 Game Officer
            Dean of Tactical Gamer University
            189th Infantry Brigade Member
            SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
            "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

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            • #7
              Re: Time for a rant.

              You heard it here first folks; You get shot at, you Mac it


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              • #8
                Re: Time for a rant.

                Originally posted by Axis_Sniper View Post
                You heard it here first folks; You get shot at, you Mac it]
                If I was a TGU Instructor this would be required material. Also that's WHY I'm not a TGU Instructor...

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                • #9
                  Re: Time for a rant.

                  Dutch: "Mac what did you see?"

                  Mac:"I saw it goddammit"

                  Mac:"Those eyes... they disappeared."

                  Dutch:"Mac."

                  Mac:"..."

                  Dutch:"MAC."

                  Mac:"..."

                  Dutch:"Sergeant!"

                  Mac: "Yessir?"


                  I've always loved that exchange. Something about how Mac's training got through his shock shows how good of a soldier he really was.

                  Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

                  "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

                  Friend of |TG| Chief

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                  • #10
                    Re: Time for a rant.

                    Agree 100% Hummel however I personally sometimes struggle blowing thru rounds as a lot of times we do not have adequate resupply lines.

                    Also not to jack the thread but we have had a lot of new people with us lately which is great. I want to ask that we maintain in game the same level of friendly encouragement to play the TG way that attracted me to this community.
                    May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won’t.
                    -- Gen. George S. Patton


                    |TG189th| Cody

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                    • #11
                      Re: Time for a rant.

                      Originally posted by Cody View Post
                      Agree 100% Hummel however I personally sometimes struggle blowing thru rounds as a lot of times we do not have adequate resupply lines.
                      Eager pilots + infinite ammo in a crate = adequate resupply lines


                      However, I think it'd be interesting if we had a physical limit on the ammo we can take out on a patrol

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                      • #12
                        Re: Time for a rant.

                        Originally posted by Cody View Post
                        I want to ask that we maintain in game the same level of friendly encouragement to play the TG way that attracted me to this community.
                        Agreed, at the end of the day this is about having fun, not adherence to any single view or preference.

                        I do my best to push for maturity and proper radio etiquette when using TFAR, but I try not to push too hard if there are players who do not wish to reciprocate.

                        Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

                        "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

                        Friend of |TG| Chief

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Time for a rant.

                          I have seen actual combat, I frequent the AR position a decent amount. (Medic, and EOD as well)
                          I tend to suppress in short controlled bursts, as we are taught in Basic Infantry Course. (Real life military course, not TGU)
                          [Pull trigger, Say "Mother F*&^er", Release trigger, wait 2 and repeat]
                          With this technique, you are actively suppressing as well as saving precious ammo.

                          I do get asked a lot if I'm actively engaging or suppressing by [MENTION=17278]Dimitrius[/MENTION] and [MENTION=38102]Unkl[/MENTION] though.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Time for a rant.

                            Originally posted by Loaffy View Post
                            I have seen actual combat, I frequent the AR position a decent amount. (Medic, and EOD as well)
                            I tend to suppress in short controlled bursts, as we are taught in Basic Infantry Course. (Real life military course, not TGU)
                            [Pull trigger, Say "Mother F*&^er", Release trigger, wait 2 and repeat]
                            With this technique, you are actively suppressing as well as saving precious ammo.

                            I do get asked a lot if I'm actively engaging or suppressing by [MENTION=17278]Dimitrius[/MENTION] and [MENTION=38102]Unkl[/MENTION] though.
                            When I say shoot back a lot, I don't mean every person squeezes the trigger and doesn't let go. I mean everybody who isn't an AR shoots once every 1-5 seconds (or faster). Maybe I should have made that clear in the OP, sorry for any confusion

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                            • #15
                              Re: Time for a rant.

                              I don't know if I'm having a "dense" moment here but I'm not following how suppressing fire has any impact on friendly encouragement to our recent guests. Regardless, always a good point to remind us that when we talk about procedures that each situation is unique and that includes the players that are in that firefight at that moment....what their level of understanding and ability to communicate effectively is...how effective they are with their weapons...so many things that the discussion of these details can get dense indeed. However, that is why we game here too. A dash of serious, a dollup of fun, stir in some of the next level of using real world tactics and you have the TG dish.

                              As we teach in the TGU Basic Infantry class, suppression starts with a large volume of fire and can decrease that rate once you have gained fire superiority. As you dial down that rate of fire you are conserving your ammunition. Returning fire back at those who are shooting at you or your friendlies is just a darn good-natured thing to do too. Like LowSpeed says, "Its called a combat favour".

                              https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1...it?usp=sharing
                              https://youtu.be/bg0XqZUegvE?list=PL...Mk3ihTWDk&t=44
                              |TG-189th| Unkl
                              ArmA 3 Game Officer
                              Dean of Tactical Gamer University
                              189th Infantry Brigade Member
                              SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
                              "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

                              Comment

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