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  • Grass

    Wondering how you guys handle grass settings when playing MP as related to visibility / spotting against AI.

    I like to have it on as I enjoy the aesthetic and realistic immersion. However for sure it impedes vision and I find when the going gets tough I turn it off as I find I am not competitive in spotting against AI or keeping up with my own squad postions in particular on forrest maps maps like Cherno., Bornholm etc..

    Strictly from a spotting perspective (not performance reasons) do you guys play with grass on or off? Suppose this could be a poll..

  • #2
    Re: Grass

    Unless performance absolutely demands it, I leave it on. I'd rather adapt to spotting enemies in grass than magically making all the fields empty. It does make life harder in the woods, but I still do it.

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    • #3
      Re: Grass

      The grass is a tough call because it is excruciating that the enemy AI will shoot you through the dirt on the crest of a hill which is much lower than the grass you see. For engagements like that I turn it off.

      For most times I leave it on mostly so that I don't have rocks floating on the skylines or EI fly-walking over the far ridge lines. It looks better too. There are many areas where the grass doesn't impede your ability and a good terrain for that is Zargabad.

      I also understand that for some players Arma is really pushing the limits of what they can render and turning grass off is fine with me if you gain some fps from a slower machine. If you are getting 30fps already then there is not really that reason to turn it off.
      |TG-189th| Unkl
      ArmA 3 Game Officer
      Dean of Tactical Gamer University
      189th Infantry Brigade Member
      SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
      "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

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      • #4
        Re: Grass

        I make it a point to include this option for those who are like me... Those who tough it out in 12-20 fps in their best. Having the option to turn off the grass means another inch of little bit of more FPS... I turn it off all the time. Just because I just do not have the PC to deal with it.... or it is my feeling that I have a better time with it off. A bit smoother shooting experience. I do not turn it off to cheat or see the enemy AI... I turn it off all the time just so I can have a tiny bit of better FPS. View distance script is important for me because my PC cannot keep up with server settings. I lower the view distance way down as well as turn off grass to play at FPS that others complain about.

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        • #5
          Re: Grass

          To clarify, I don't hold turning grass off against *anyone* - either for FPS or other gameplay reasons. Re-reading my post I get that impression from myself. I just like how the maps looks with grass, so I leave it on :)

          I used to turn it off on Bornholm (back in the Tactical Strike days) because my FPS would go to low teens with it - and the enemy was always firing through the foliage on that map...

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          • #6
            Re: Grass

            I flip a coin on contact, heads for off. It just happens to be a two headed coin.

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            • #7
              Re: Grass

              Gee Hummel...why dont you just say what you really feel?

              To add to this thread in general, how many times have we shot through grass or a wooden plank to reach the enemy? This whole question does cut to the core of a TG primer directive. Worth a good think through.
              |TG-189th| Unkl
              ArmA 3 Game Officer
              Dean of Tactical Gamer University
              189th Infantry Brigade Member
              SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
              "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Grass

                Originally posted by Unkl View Post
                Gee Hummel...why dont you just say what you really feel?

                To add to this thread in general, how many times have we shot through grass or a wooden plank to reach the enemy? This whole question does cut to the core of a TG primer directive. Worth a good think through.
                I've never shot through what I can't see through with 100% accuracy to the head, if that's what you're asking.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Grass

                  Originally posted by Unkl View Post
                  To add to this thread in general, how many times have we shot through grass or a wooden plank to reach the enemy? This whole question does cut to the core of a TG primer directive. Worth a good think through.

                  That's kind of where I was going with this topic to start and I'd like to make a point and recommendation just to 'poke the bear' and spur the conversation.

                  Performance gains aside, for an ideal tactical experience grass on or off should not be an individual player choice. I base this on my feeling that grass is a significant tactical property of the battle space that influences the fundamental aspects of overall gameplay beyond equalizing AI spotting performance and improved visuals.

                  The impact of grass should be split into 2 areas - first, the effect it has on making AI and Human spotting ability 'equivalent'. This is huge, but a simple to understand 'bug' and should be addressed by the developer or other difficulty settings (fingers crossed for Apex).

                  The second area grass impacts is more complex and relates to human players ability to see ALL objects in the battle space and the effect that has on overall difficulty and tactical gameplay in general.

                  For example - having grass on makes it more difficult....
                  - For medics to locate downed soldiers - you'll need a mark, or some intelligence/guidance (ie, radio or smoke, landmark), or first hand visual reference (or a very good eye)
                  - For squad / fire team leads and members to keep tabs on eachother - especially if effective camo is being used. Leads will need to be clear on step off cues, direction of travel, spacing and formations.
                  - IFF in general gets much more difficult
                  - etc...

                  Having all players aligned to a common battlespace makes behaving in these scenarios more aligned. If everyone has it off - there is a communication and IFF requirement that can be common, vice versa if everyone has it on.

                  If some have a significantly different battlespace than others it can drive different behaviors (ie. looser or tighter communication protocol) producing an inconsistent and perhaps even frustrating experience:

                  - "Why am I the only one that can't see the tank everyone is talking about??" ...
                  - "Where is the downed soldier???"
                  - "Why can't I see the IFRIT my FTL is telling me to deploy AT on??? I am staring right at 030deg where is it???" ...
                  - "Why doesn't my MG see the fireteam I clearly see and want him to fire on???... damn newbs.."

                  To some degree this applies to view distance as well - but FAR less significantly as most combat is sub 1000M and MOST people are running 1000M or greater object view distances. Grass uniquely and SIGNIFICANTLY effects the primary combat and communication range environment.

                  So based on all this complexity there are some choices:

                  1) More realistic, tactically difficult experience vs equalized AI spotting behavior?
                  2) Harmonized battle space among players vs. client specified grass for individual performance?
                  3) Pepsi vs Coke...

                  So here's what I can conclude (just my perspective...):

                  - Player choice on grass on/off causes a disconnect that undermines the fundamentals of tactical gameplay (how's that for a divisive comment ... :). Therefore grass setting should be consistent for all playersin a mission. This emphasizes priority on a common battle space and behaviors critical for fostering tactical experience.

                  - Grass setting ON vs OFF is map & mission dependent based on the specific maps 'vulnerability' to AI abuse and other specific mission parameters and anticipated performance impact (Cherno OFF, Zagrabad ON).

                  - Game AI difficulty settings should be the primary means to equalize AI spotting performance given a forced grass setting. Perhaps something in the new difficulty settings in ARMA (ie. specific camouflage unit coefficient via setUnitTrait) that may be able to alleviate the AI bug with less impact than removing grass does to the entire battle space and players tactical behavior.

                  - Pepsi is better than Coke.
                  Last edited by CanaDave; 05-16-2016, 02:24 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Grass

                    That is a lotta stuff on one cheeseburger. It will take me some time to digest all that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Grass

                      Originally posted by ChiefBoatsRet View Post
                      That is a lotta stuff on one cheeseburger. It will take me some time to digest all that.
                      Lol...you said it. I don't post much but when I do.........

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Grass

                        Originally posted by ChiefBoatsRet View Post
                        I flip a coin on contact, heads for off. It just happens to be a two headed coin.
                        You got that coin from the same quartermaster too? I thought he said he had only one.

                        TGU Instructor TG Pathfinder

                        Former TGU Dean Former ARMA Admin Former Irregulars Officer

                        "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Grass

                          Originally posted by canadave View Post

                          - pepsi is better than coke.
                          no

                          TGU Instructor TG Pathfinder

                          Former TGU Dean Former ARMA Admin Former Irregulars Officer

                          "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Grass

                            yes...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Grass

                              Originally posted by LowSpeedHighDrag View Post
                              no
                              You forgot rule #1 when dealing with The Chief...

                              Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

                              "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

                              Friend of |TG| Chief

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