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  • PVP event/tourney?

    I'd like to start this off by saying we have some VERY capable and stunning leaders here at TG, and the more I play and the more I see certain leaders carry out different missions in their own style I've begun to wonder, what would happen if these leaders went head to head in Arma 3? I believe it would be very interesting and very fun to see how each leader's tactics contrast and how they would adapt to the situation.

    I think the best game mode for this would be something small, such as Endgame, and maybe have a draft or something of that nature to decide the teams. Since not everyone here enjoys the PVP game modes leaders would volunteer and when we have enough they would pick their first team-member and then the second SL would pick their first guy and it would continue down the row (like team captains in elementary school football). People who were interested in participating could sign up on the forums and that would be the pool the SL's pick from.

    HOW ENGAME WORKS

    Endgame is a very small game mode compared to what most missions in arma are. It focuses around one town usually and it starts out with both teams on the opposite sides of this town. Both teams have to capture an AI controlled FOB about 500m for where the first spawn point is. After they capture this FOB they get access to a very limited arsenal, usually just adding i couple of sights at this point, and a helicopter will bring in a unarmed hunter/ifrit. After the FOB is captured 4-5 objectives will appear (the number depending what map you are on) and the teams have to rush to these objectives, kill the AI guarding it, and download intel. The more intel you gather, the more items appear in the arsenal. To download the intel, you go to the intel site and hold space, doing so with initiate the download and to closer and more people you have next to the site, the faster it will download (your connection to the intel is represented by a Wireless network symbol on the right side of the screen). After the second or third intel piece is acquired, your mission will change depending on if you got the most intel or not. If you are the team with the greater intel you will get a waypoint to go retrive a package and deliver it to the drop-off point, if you are the team with the lesser amount of intel, you will be directed to the other team's drop-off point. If the carrier is killed, the other team is able to pick up the package and take it to their drop-off point, the team without the intell is given a real-time feed of the carriers postion(this may not be true because the server doesn't allow waypoints). The team to get to package to their drop-off and upload it wins.

    Endgame is very fast pace and speed is a very important key to victory as the game gets a time limit once a team picks up the package.


    This is just an idea if been thinking about for a few days that needs a lot more thought and I'm just seeing if it sticks, I would love to hear anyone's comments/ideas! :D

  • #2
    Re: PVP event/tourney?

    Knowledge,

    Thanks for posting on the forums. It's great that you want to share your ideas with us. However, (and I may be speaking out of turn) our objective at Tactical Gamer is to provide a professional and respectful environment for players without mandating any serious dedication, and to provide a fun gaming experience. In essence our objective is not to find out who the "best" leader is, but to pass on our experience to newer players.

    That being said, there have been times that we've tried PvP. There will be plenty of chances in the future as well. It depends on who's online and what they want to play at any given moment.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PVP event/tourney?

      Speaking for myself only...If I wanted to collect things and play really fast to win, I would be playing Battlefield. Arma at TG is where I enjoy the teamwork and tactics at pace that is enjoyable and fairly immersive . I never think about wining or losing, only about doing the best job I can to help my team mates complete the mission. Some of my best times gaming here were hours long and you stayed and talked for another hour on TS about how it all went . IMHO tactics and mission quickly dissolve into hunt & kill fests so I avoid pvp like the plague.

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      • #4
        Re: PVP event/tourney?

        I know that there is a TvT event in the planning stages which will be hosted by none other than the 189th Infantry Brigade. Cody is hard at work on the missions now and they have been tested and sent back for the 1st revision. Stand by for that...

        Also, we have End Game available on the server and it is a LOT of fun! I think I've only played one round so far but it was really great.
        |TG-189th| Unkl
        ArmA 3 Game Officer
        Dean of Tactical Gamer University
        189th Infantry Brigade Member
        SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
        "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PVP event/tourney?

          Originally posted by ChiefBoatsRet View Post
          Speaking for myself only...If I wanted to collect things and play really fast to win, I would be playing Battlefield. Arma at TG is where I enjoy the teamwork and tactics at pace that is enjoyable and fairly immersive . I never think about wining or losing, only about doing the best job I can to help my team mates complete the mission. Some of my best times gaming here were hours long and you stayed and talked for another hour on TS about how it all went . IMHO tactics and mission quickly dissolve into hunt & kill fests so I avoid pvp like the plague.
          Took the thoughts right out of my brain.

          Please do not take my response as dissuasion for it is only my opinion, but I have no interest in going head to head with other commanders at ARMA.

          Current ARMA Development Project: No Current Project

          "An infantryman needs a leader to be the standard against which he can judge all soldiers."

          Friend of |TG| Chief

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: PVP event/tourney?

            Don't mind a little short bursts of PvP. It gives us more choices to pool for our list of missions.

            TGU Instructor TG Pathfinder

            Former TGU Dean Former ARMA Admin Former Irregulars Officer

            "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold

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            • #7
              Re: PVP event/tourney?

              I like a little bit of PvP as well so long as it's structured to encourage cooperative play within your squad. An occasional event would be satisfactory to me. I haven't ever tried end game. Traditional FPS multiplayer is the worst.

              Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

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              • #8
                Re: PVP event/tourney?

                Team balance is always (MHO always remember) the issue.

                Chief - totally agree - why you're so awesome / Dimi - also agree hope we can play together again soon.

                I spend way too much time getting to like you guys, no interest in facing you on the field of battle on the OTHER side. I like our team play. Give me a good team based CoOP where we plan, execute, and then debrief (yep, sometimes for maybe hours) talking about all we did, the fun, the pain, and the number of times we saved each others (stuff) on the field . . . . . it's what the good ones are made of in my mind.

                Sounds like some TvT / PvP are in the works so to coin a golfing term . . . . . play through gentlemen . . . . . :-)

                Just wish RL gave me a little more time of late to spend more TacTuesday and other time with you guys - see you all soon.

                Solo

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                • #9
                  Re: PVP event/tourney?

                  I guess I'm not the best at wording things, I didn't mean this as a competitive thing and certainly didn't mean it as to see who the best leader is. I was thinking it would be more like iantron said "so long as it's structured to encourage cooperative play" so that way it didn't turn into a hunt and kill fest like chief was saying.

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                  • #10
                    Re: PVP event/tourney?

                    Hi [MENTION=142910]Knowledge[/MENTION],
                    You have touched on, one of the very few sensitive topics here within the ARMA community. It is not what you said, it is the topic of PvP itself.
                    People play this game mostly for the cooperative style here. However, there are also players who come into ArmA from a PvP environment games.
                    ArmA do cater well to the PvP players, as well as the coops.

                    Facts to note, ArmA PvP was played well and enjoyed by the majority since ArmA1, ArmA2. Including myself, a proponent of Coop games. PvPs don't last half as long as our normal Coop games, which sort of explains for its own use.

                    We at ArmA, have got used to one style of play for too long. Adopt or ...

                    TGU Instructor TG Pathfinder

                    Former TGU Dean Former ARMA Admin Former Irregulars Officer

                    "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PVP event/tourney?

                      I really enjoy having to think about an enemy that can actually think as well. TvT is a term I use on purpose as well. I don't enjoy PvP but do enjoy TvT. An enemy that will take the initiative to counter-attack or recognize the opportunity to hit a team that is busy with medical treatments while they are still weak is a much more interesting game.

                      I think of COOP as a great training ground and TvT as the reality check. To me always playing one of these game modes leads to a tunnel vision. TvT often does not give time for realistic tactics just due to the nature of it being a "match". There is always the temptation to win over simulate.

                      COOP gives you the ability to be a little more real in terms of how you might plan and approach something in many ways but it leaves out the thinking and adaptive and creative enemy. You get to know how to play the bots and almost forget or don't realize how your strategy becomes dependent on the bot programming.

                      A little more back & forth between these game modes is good for us. ArmA is an under-utilized platform that is so perfectly suited for a great TvT product. I really wonder why we haven't had the push from our community to really develop a great vanilla A3 TvT product prior to Squad's release. But, that ship has sailed and we really should be looking to spice up our games with some TvT.

                      My guess is that organized events are necessary so that we know what to expect and when so those that enjoy can do so and those that don't won't be disappointed. As a leader, I don't mind the "competition" aspect of it when we have a nice gentleman's game. That is part of why TG is a good place for it. We don't tolerate anything less.
                      |TG-189th| Unkl
                      ArmA 3 Game Officer
                      Dean of Tactical Gamer University
                      189th Infantry Brigade Member
                      SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
                      "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: PVP event/tourney?

                        Well said, Unkl. I have been lurking and waiting for Tacticalgamer to restore TvT events and a public TvT server.

                        Tacticalgamer used to have a public Arma 2 server for TvT missions only. Players had excellent discipline, use of military radio protocol and used tactics such as formations and bounding overwatch constantly. When combined with the fact that it was team versus team, this was an extremely rare experience.

                        By way of example, look at Shack Tactical's Adversarial missions such as Caesar Merlin, Dark Business and other missions that depict conventional combat in large AOs. These missions last for hours and have players excitedly role playing and scheming.

                        Another example of an immersive TvT mission is Advance to Contact: Nifi, created by EUTW SO (European Teamwork Special Operations).

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yAK4g-sxa0&t=3m29s

                        This mission was designed from the ground up by a real-life UK military section commander named Kallen. He designed it with a realistic AO size for a platoon-sized element, with a realistic tactical objective, and he commanded it with realistic military tactics. There was no AI involved and it was awesome.

                        TG always had the best Project Reality server, especially with their password nights which required following many rules that promoted team play and tactics, including following orders in the game.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: PVP event/tourney?

                          One thing that can be done with Arma adversarial missions that most other fps's can't/won't do is to focus on the 'mission' style. Other fps favour the arena style mode a) because its simpler to create and requires little imagination on the part of the developers and b) because it caters to solo play in what should be a team environment ie the bulk of their customer base. Plus its a universally understood game mode, its not complicated, run around and shoot at anyone in a different uniform.

                          The nature of these game modes with a singular focus (kill), little penalty for death and no over arching objectives promotes cheesy play and '#### or bust' tactics. Doesn't matter if you die as long as you kill more than 1 player. As groups have a larger visual signature and for many teamwork is hard lol this in turn promotes solo/lone wolf play. Easy to sneak up on a group and if you pop two of them that's a win right? This is the meta of most garbage/non teamwork focused fps and what a great percentage of the customer base is interested in as it empowers the individual without the required effort of teamwork.

                          Unkl and I have talked about this kind of thing at length in the past. I think the key when trying to create a mission/mode that appeals to all Arma players that includes pvp is to abandon the current fps meta of "death match all the things". Instead create a proper mission with realistic objectives, essentially a narrative that makes sense.

                          By introducing a real world structure to the scenario you also introduce realistic restrictions on how much the scenario can be gamed. If you don't know where someone 'spawns' you cant camp that location. If you aren't sure where someone may assault from you can't create an artificial choke point and you have to have proper security. That means being spread out and having to communicate etc. To me only Arma has the ability to create modes like this, that's one of its great strengths and most other fps type games greatest failings. Arma can create tvt/pvp that is realistic as opposed to a 'sport'. I personally find 'fps sports titles' shallow, gamey, unrealistic and unfulfilling.

                          I would look to create similar pvp scenarios as you would for coop, use your imagination and don't settle for king of the hill stuff. That's simplistic, gamey and quickly becomes dull.

                          Think about asymmetric options. Even simple attack/defend situations can be fun if done right. Maybe one team has to take an airfield whilst another defends. Give the attackers insertion options, maybe they can pick time of day and all get nod but are a smaller size whereas defenders get limited nod but have searchlights and heavy weapons emplacements. Perhaps an exfil mission with a small group of players trying to reach one of 3 exfil points to be picked up by a player flown helo. Opfor has access to wheeled military vehicles and blufor can only use civi cars. Add some ai that drive civi cars about so opfor has multiple targets to check.

                          Again I think the key is to play to Arma's inherent strengths. That will naturally create an environment that is less gamey/sporty and more reliant on teamwork and realism/realistic tactics.


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                          • #14
                            Re: PVP event/tourney?

                            Originally posted by Wicks View Post
                            Arma can create tvt/pvp that is realistic as opposed to a 'sport'. I personally find 'fps sports titles' shallow, gamey, unrealistic and unfulfilling.

                            Again I think the key is to play to Arma's inherent strengths. That will naturally create an environment that is less gamey/sporty and more reliant on teamwork and realism/realistic tactics.
                            Yeeessssssss...

                            TGU Instructor TG Pathfinder

                            Former TGU Dean Former ARMA Admin Former Irregulars Officer

                            "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: PVP event/tourney?

                              Great post Wicks, just confirms why you are the boss and I am not.

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