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Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

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  • Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

    So I've been playing here for a while now, and am on the whole very satisfied with the community and the level of gameplay. I've been working for the last few weeks in mission development, but am almost constantly unable to actually release anything or even get them tested due to the 'on to the next great thing' syndrome and the nearly continual updates coming out of YOMAsynch as well as the development of new, more popular 'sandbox' gameplay modes in mission making which has taken the focus away from linear objective-driven teamplay oriented missions. This isn't a complaint against all the updating, the release of new factions and modes has made it a challenge to release anything that will seem fun or playable since everybody just wants to play with new things and there's no stability in terms of what we can expect from the games. Pluralism and too much choice in terms of what people want to play has turned every map selection screen into a battlefield of its own.

    What this is, is a post expressing my opinion on the recent surplus of 'free form' team vs. team missions which have no overarching conceptual framework beyond kill everything, get better guns or boils down to little more than CTs vs. Ts type 'arcade' type gameplay with quick respawns and an emphasis on just getting great kills.

    Now, I understand the roleplaying mission has its place because of the level of 'skill' required to roleplay. What I will also say is that roleplaying is impossible to enforce, and while 'commendable' is probably not why most of us are here/bought Arma 2. I'd say the first mission of this type is Tesla, which is why I'm mentioning it in the title... but really, the subsequent 'freeformers' Operation Poppy and Fallout have served to erode the ethics of responsible teamplay on the servers and subverted the structure of the community. Tesla was a great map, but I see it as the start of what is a rather marked downhill slide away from the experiences I first had on this server (with maps like The Longest Day, Red Dawn and Morning Star and even the F16TAC TVTs) toward new, freeform maps where everyone is just killing everyone for the 'fun' of it, where people load themselves out with gear and ammo as one-man armies and are not afraid to act like retards because the only penalty is a minute-thirty second wait.

    My argument is this: If Tactical Gamer wants to host these roleplaying maps, there needs to be a dedicated server on to which they are loaded. I didn't buy this game to play Aion, or World of Warcraft or Fallout Multiplayer... I bought this game because of its reputation as a military simulation. I would suggest that many players in the community probably feel this way, and enduring 3 hours of aimless wastelands wandering just so we can spend 1/2 hour on a stressful, agonizing Coop (which we fail on the -first- assault) only to go back to the unstructured anarchic brawl is not something I personally feel to be entertaining or worthwhile.

    When we do play Coops, they're getting progressively disorganized. People just want to have sweet guns and be instantly gratified in diving around a corner and spraying up someone who is camping. I've previously called out the mapmaker of Fallout for his anarchic actions on Operation Poppy (camping and killing indiscriminately with GP-25 with no real reason) and would say that there is a certain type of gameplay being promoted here that does not live up to the expectations of maturity, tactics and teamplay which makes this community what it is.

    Tonight, when some members of the community did not want to play Fallout, we had no choice but to stick it out or leave. There was no alternative server open to us to go play on, and the administrators were unsympathetic and told us to take it to the forums, even though it was the third time the map had been played in the same day. The administrators need to carefully reconsider the repercussions of their own actions, as I would argue (with some decent evidence) that teamplay, organization and tactics on this server have been almost totally annihilated by anarchic gameplay which does not reinforce consequences or require any real thought process beyond run-shoot-die and (occasionally) say funny things.

    Bottom line: If I wanted to play fallout, I'd install it. But I haven't. And I don't. I'm here to drive tanks, march in lines, yell at insubordinate/incompetent privates, roll convoys, clear LZ's, land in them and most importantly:

    To realize the achievement of objectives in an organized, orderly fashion, with coherent and cohesive units of dedicated players seeking fulfillment and gratification through the application of these same virtues.

    Thank you for reading,
    H. Rearden


    If the leader is filled with high ambition and if he pursues his aims with audacity and strength of will, he will reach them in spite of all obstacles.
    -Carl Von Clausewitz



    'The Great Game' -Blog on War in Afghanistan:

  • #2
    Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

    We all like to play the combat mission and we like to play the Fallout style missions. I feel that some missions like this are nice to be able to revive everyones spirit, just like playing wabbit hunt after a long Air Cav mission. Although I don't like playing it over and over again, alot of people in the community wanted to play it. If a majority of the players want to play a mission we should play it, the same thing for domi missions. Also if you think about it, Fallout actually simulates combat in Iraq. You have groups of people fighting each other and you have people caught in the middle. Its how you deal with those people and how you can operate diplomatically that can determine the success or failure of your mission. Its not getting in wedge formation and marching to an objective, its fighting a war where you need to win hearts and minds. I did this in Iraq for 2 years. Granted, there was alot of people that where team killing and creating havoc around the map, but a vast majority were actually playing like it was a hearts and minds mission. But as you said this is the "newest thing" so naturally everyone wants to give it a go and see what its all about. But I really dont think that this style mission will take over the servers, to me its just an extension of what can be accomplished with arma as well as showing that we as mature gamers can play any mission with our friends here and still have fun. Don't worry rearden, we will still be playing Air Cav and clearing LZ's and having birds doing gun runs over our heads and assaulting enemy positions, we just like to break from the norm and play something a little different every once in a while.

    [unit][squadl][command2]

    KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

      I probably would have used a different tone, but I completely agree with the content of Reardon's post.

      The short version: whenever a weird role playing mission is requested, I log my vote against it. If it is selected, I disconnect.

      The details why:

      I've played Tesla, and it has managed to keep within the boundaries of "tactical" with a clear objective, but just barely... and the reason I say "barely" is because it's not balanced between all the factions. Three way faction maps? Yeah... impossible to balance in my opinion. Once a map is not balanced, then the weak side tends to claw against the inevitable. However, at least there is a fairly clear progression with Tesla, although it's far from my favorite mission.

      Then it became worse and worse. Maps like Poppy are the antithesis of "tactical gaming" to me. Random team changes? Check. Unbalanced weapons? Check. No actual time limit and very unclear objectives? Check. People yelling at each other and "pretending" to do stuff? Hey, this is just like WoW! I'm a level 4 half-elf magician! With an AK! Want to do a raid in Chernogorsk??

      Now I'm seeing a game where one player murders prostitutes and some players go around "sleuthing" and other players try to help the murderer get away or something... yeah that's interesting. This kind of game would be better off if it was set up on a special Topic Thread and launched on a private server. Anyone with broadband could host, the mission doesn't require many players.

      To me, all of these things are pure chaos and so far out of the realm of Arma2 that they border on some kind of conversion mod themselves. I'm going to "roleplay" like I'm a serial killer going after whores? Seriously? I'm not making this up.

      Don't get me wrong, it's very creative stuff.. but so far off the mainstream that when it is launched on a TG server I just bail out. The games take hours (sometimes with no end-trigger at all) and they have a weird vibe.

      I understand that this is an organic community, so if everyone wants to "roleplay" then... well, the majority has spoken and I will just disconnect from the server.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

        Dredge, it is impossible to simulate people stuck in the middle in a game. It has been tried 3 times, Golden Eagle, Poppy, and Fallout. All have failed because the player base is just not *mature* enough to handle the scenario. TG likes linear missions, simple as that. The second a mission goes free form without direct objectives or rules, it goes down the drain. Not saying that is a bad thing, just saying that is how it goes.


        I think more structured, difficult, and linear missions are needed. When i say linear I mean a clear objective with clear intelligence so a CO can formulate a structured plan to assault the objective.

        I agree with longtime, that free-form stuck in the middle missions do not have a place at TG. Also, I hate to say censoring, but really off the wall missions like Crooks are just no acceptable for TG. We strive to make a family friendly community, and then try to kill hookers as a serial killer and rob banks. Not only is this un-realistic and un-tactical, but it is morally wrong.

        Whatever happened to just doing an organized domi for fun? Or what happened to HARD missions that took forever to beat, but made you feel like you were there? We now have cops and robbers and a fallout clone. I would be ok if the missions are done to blow off some steam after a long and hard slog, but they are getting played nonstop for hours on end! Instead of the tactical toughness TG is known for, we sold ourselves for "fun" and choose to simulate other arcade games and be RPG fans.
        |TG|Ghost02
        TG Pathfinder



        "I travel alone through the valley of the shadow of death, yet in my heart I carry no fear, for Gods hands will guide me to Truth and Honor."

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

          To me the problem isn't the presence or proliferation of more free form missions, but rather the monotony of playing them over and over again (or any mission for that matter)

          This isn't a barb at the mission creator who had a clear mental picture which he sculpted masterfully into a fluid and relatively bug free scenario (which really is the pinnacle of mission development).

          But I don't care what mission it is, playing it 4 (at least maybe 5 or more) times a day for hours on end just isn't a good time.

          Fallout-esque missions have their place on the server rotation, but it is important that it be part of the rotation and not the majority of it (this is true for any mission). For instance, look at Operation Poppy, an innovative and immersive multi-faction missions which was played so frequently it caused rifts in the community and is now not even available for play.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

            The thing about them being played alot is they are played at majority request. If 10 people want to play it but 2 dont we are going to side with the majority. I agree with everything that you guys are saying I really do, but, there are alot of people in the community that like missions like this and want to play them. So we as a community need to find a happy medium with all the players here. And I think we are actually working towards that as we speak.

            [unit][squadl][command2]

            KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

              Originally posted by Dredge View Post
              The thing about them being played alot is they are played at majority request. If 10 people want to play it but 2 dont we are going to side with the majority. I agree with everything that you guys are saying I really do, but, there are alot of people in the community that like missions like this and want to play them. So we as a community need to find a happy medium with all the players here. And I think we are actually working towards that as we speak.
              Yup, completely understood. I'm just voicing my opinion, as I think Reardon and others are.

              If a large majority want them played, then so be it. I'll just leave.



              FYI-- I'm putting up a dedicated server that will hopefully provide an alternative. Need to do some load testing on it, I'll ping back later. I plan on keeping it passworded with the same pw as Alpha and mirror with the same modpack. Unsure about the missions it will have.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

                The thing about them being played alot is they are played at majority request. If 10 people want to play it but 2 dont we are going to side with the majority. I agree with everything that you guys are saying I really do, but, there are alot of people in the community that like missions like this and want to play them. So we as a community need to find a happy medium with all the players here. And I think we are actually working towards that as we speak.
                I've always had an issue with voting 1 or 2 for the next mission. Firstly, its not truly a majority, at this point the true majority is AFK and doesn't vote at all. Normally its the vocal minority that spams 1 or 2 that gets to decide. Secondly, most people don't know which mission they're really voting for. Either they don't remember what name belongs to what mission or its a new mission they know almost nothing about. Whats does it mean that 5 people voted for Operation Cow Catcher and 3 people voted for Operation Bell Bottoms, if most don't know what Operation Cow Catcher is and Operation Bell Bottoms is new and has never been played, and there are 35 people on the server anyways.

                To me the solution is the develop a maplist that kicks in at around prime time. It would be comprised of new missions that need a good one seeing to and missions which are selected by admins/selected by the map team/voted on during the day with a forums vote.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

                  I usually dont have much to say... I was killed six times in a row by civilians with guns, no questions asked, nothing said, just shot. That right there put me in a bad frame of mind and i should have been kicked for a torrent of unabridged expletives that a sailor would be proud of. I played Fallout3 and now I dont and never thought i would again,surprise surprise. I bought Arma2 and have been playing it ever since it came out, this is the longest i have stayed with a game. Now I find myself using yoma to see whats playing because I do not want to play games like this. I too believe we are moving too far from what Arma is about. I know I am going to get slammed for this but wtf.. It seems that there is a constant flurry of "I want this in the game" before they even know how to play what we have. It seems sometimes that we have players with the attention span of a toddler. TG Arma2 is giving way to the masses and we are reaping what we have sown.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

                    Apparently the three hour Fallout session was a big hit. Earlier today, both Alpha and Bravo were both on Fallout for quite a long time.

                    Not sure what else to say.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

                      Originally posted by ChiefBoatsRet View Post
                      I usually dont have much to say... I was killed six times in a row by civilians with guns, no questions asked, nothing said, just shot. That right there put me in a bad frame of mind and i should have been kicked for a torrent of unabridged expletives that a sailor would be proud of. I played Fallout3 and now I dont and never thought i would again,surprise surprise. I bought Arma2 and have been playing it ever since it came out, this is the longest i have stayed with a game. Now I find myself using yoma to see whats playing because I do not want to play games like this. I too believe we are moving too far from what Arma is about. I know I am going to get slammed for this but wtf.. It seems that there is a constant flurry of "I want this in the game" before they even know how to play what we have. It seems sometimes that we have players with the attention span of a toddler. TG Arma2 is giving way to the masses and we are reaping what we have sown.
                      I completely agree. I have stated many times in the past what I think the level and style of gameplay on TG should be and so I'm not going to go into that again if you don't know what I'm taking about (I know there are some new guys and that's ok) look it up.

                      As for mission selection I like sam's suggestion I think that at least for a while the admins need to pick a mission list and use it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

                        I think its a bad idea to try to simulate civis in a warzone. Horrible idea because what do most civis do when a warzone erupts in their back yard? Leave town or go into the basement and wait it out. Another thing to remember is that civis lived in the area before the war. They have friends, family, and other things to worry about but you can't simulate any of this. No one on the civi team wants to roleplay a dude in a basement huddling with his family so instead they roleplay either people who join the Americans or Russians or whatever.

                        The reason you join a side is to get a gun, or hell if you can find a gun then why bother joining sides? Form your own resistance movement. But this leads both sides to be extremely paranoid of civis, since its hard to tell which side they belong to, so people end up getting shot for no reason. Even if your a civi with a gun its really hard to coordinate any kind of anything since you only have direct chat. Wouldn't Civis have mobile phones, house phones, or even could leave messages at thier friends, families, or even comrades house.

                        And finally the admins will have to enforce "Rules" to keep the civis from doing things. For example civis can not go into a base or into a certain area. While I can understand this is to prevent civis from disrupting the opfor or blufor operations it doesn't help the civis have fun. So now as a civi your stuck with a list of things you can not do that would be really fun to do. Its like being a crow without the ability to fly.

                        The hungry, ignorant man immediately grasps that he is handed a fish, but is bewildered when handed a net. The man who shivers in the cold thinks happily of the man who invites him to sit by his fire, and somewhat poorly of the man who loans him an axe, flint and steel.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

                          It is time for the Arma2 gaming officer, admins, supporting members and core players to take back the servers. Its time to start playing Arma2 again, the milsim tactical play game.Where has the style of play gone that was written about in a major gaming magazine? That article brought scores of new players hungering for tactical play, well organized missions. Now we get everything but.. the inmates are running the asylum and running this game into the ground. We need to stand up and say this is what we play here at Tg Arma2... Tactical milsim missions with commanders with plans and troops who carry out those missions. When we started here it was the carrying out of a successful mission that made a good game, not shiny new weapons and kill scores. We have allowed our game to become a conglomeration of junk missions where killing for killings sake is being allowed..team killing is allowed, killing civillians is allowed. Is this really the kind of game that brought you here? Is this really what we want? Look back over the past few months and see the number of core players who have given up and left the game. I for one will not be driven off so I stand and say... Enough.WE play Arma2 here, with milsim tactical missions... If thats not what you want to play, there are other servers other games.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

                            I played 2 of the runs with Fallout tonight. I had to restart to fix a mic problem between the later runs and missed the mission that was run between them by about 5 seconds and was not able to JIP. So I spent the whole night playing Fallout and I have definitely enjoyed better nights on the servers.

                            I'm tending to agree with what Rearden and Longtime are saying. This really isn't what I am looking for when I sign on. No offense meant to the creators of Poppy or Fallout. I just don't think the "stuck in the middle" thing is going to work. Each faction needs to have a CLEAR objective.

                            Tesla is different from Poppy and Fallout, it doesn't really require roleplaying. OPFOR and terrorists kill Tesla, BLUFOR and IND whisk him away to safety. That is 2 factions, each with a single objective in mind. Pretty straight forward and simple.

                            I am currently thinking about becoming a supporting member, but with the way things are going right now I'm just not so sure I will. I bought OFP right after it was released, and waited 6 months after buying ArmA1 for a computer that would run it. After picking up ArmA2, and only getting about 10 FPS out of the laptop I spent $1000 to build a machine that would run ArmA2. This is the only game I play, and I play it because I want a "realistic" combat simulator. These stuck in the middle missions turn this game into something else.

                            I would much rather march along side Rearden and Longtime through several hard fought objectives over a 3 hour period than run around in chaos for that amount of time.

                            I have been wondering lately why the Alpha - coop, Bravo - Domi, Evo, TvT setup doesn't work anymore.

                            I don't mean to offend anyone here. Mike and Ghost have both released some great missions aside from Poppy and Fallout, and I don't think this should be forgotten. They are simply trying to be creative to give us some variety I would imagine.

                            Anyways...

                            Rearden, I hope to see some great tactical style missions from you. I might give editing a shot here soon also.

                            Longtime, I'd love to see a server dedicated towards tactical teamwork type missions. I will be there if and when you get that up and running.

                            Dredge, good luck with all this man. I hope we can figure out what's happening here and what to do about it.

                            Everyone else... This is just a game people. Lets try not to get too upset with each other, no matter what mission is being played.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Dr. Tesla: Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love to Pwn

                              Originally posted by ChiefBoatsRet View Post
                              It is time for the Arma2 gaming officer, admins, supporting members and core players to take back the servers. Its time to start playing Arma2 again, the milsim tactical play game.Where has the style of play gone that was written about in a major gaming magazine? That article brought scores of new players hungering for tactical play, well organized missions. Now we get everything but.. the inmates are running the asylum and running this game into the ground. We need to stand up and say this is what we play here at Tg Arma2... Tactical milsim missions with commanders with plans and troops who carry out those missions. When we started here it was the carrying out of a successful mission that made a good game, not shiny new weapons and kill scores. We have allowed our game to become a conglomeration of junk missions where killing for killings sake is being allowed..team killing is allowed, killing civillians is allowed. Is this really the kind of game that brought you here? Is this really what we want? Look back over the past few months and see the number of core players who have given up and left the game. I for one will not be driven off so I stand and say... Enough.WE play Arma2 here, with milsim tactical missions... If thats not what you want to play, there are other servers other games.
                              I'm with you, and here by award you the Golden AK to be carried by the resistance
                              movement. :)

                              [media]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:O5k5vImv1IJeCM:[media]http://jblyth.com/blog_images/images_11/goldak47wclips.jpg[/media][/media]

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