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  • AI health overkill?

    Wanted to see if anyone else has noticed this but the AI in every mission I have played so far seem to have an alarming amount of health. Not sure if this is the fault of the ACE damage system that is doing this or what but it's getting to be a little much. Last night on OP Syracuse the JTOC SF team put 5 TAC-50 rounds into a machine gunner and he kept on trucking. I also noticed a problem when I put 15 M16 rounds into a guy and he just shrugged it off. It cannot be a lag problem because the mission played very smooth.
    FORMER 22ND RRR/FORMER 1ST JTOC/ ALWAYS A TACTICALGAMER


    Spartan 4


  • #2
    Re: AI health overkill?

    I noticed that the m110 SD became useless about 2 updates ago. Allways takes 3+rounds at range over 300m.
    Nihility

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    • #3
      Re: AI health overkill?

      In general the AI are much tougher with the ACE damage system than in stock Arma2, but 5 Tac50 rounds sounds like too much. I have noticed there's sometimes quite a delay between the hit and the target doing down, and it might have nothing to do with network lag at all. Low server FPS is all that's needed, as it'll start slowing down all "user-side"-scripts, also those of ACE medical system.

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      • #4
        Re: AI health overkill?

        That would explain why I got killed once by a D30 gunner after having put around 20-30 M240 rounds into his body. -.-
        Not only did he kill me, but he also kept going for a few more minutes: the only reason he stopped was because me and a few others started firing on that D30 with everything we had, and he eventually died (took 4 people with weapons ranging from an M4 up to an AT-4 to kill that bot).
        Another thing to remember about AIs is that basically they are not negatively affected by pain and only slightly affected by wounds when firing; during ACE1 we ALWAYS fired into bodies just to make sure, since if they weren't dead, the bots would eventually regain consciousness and shoot us in the back (with great accuracy, as always).
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        • #5
          Re: AI health overkill?

          Well this new toughness is becoming a debby downer. We probably can't do much about it but I am glad to see im not going crazy.
          FORMER 22ND RRR/FORMER 1ST JTOC/ ALWAYS A TACTICALGAMER


          Spartan 4

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          • #6
            Re: AI health overkill?

            Static weapon gunners have always been a breed of their own, and are now tougher than ever. It takes a ridiculous amount of shots to down them. That said I just played a few hours of Domi using mostly an SA-58, which fires the 7.62x51 NATO M80 round, and had no trouble downing regular infantry. Mostly it took one shot to drop them, sometimes two, and I didn't have anyone move after shooting them three times(apart from the already mentioned gunners). Somehow the wounding system is just geared against 5.56, making it very ineffective. :)

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            • #7
              Re: AI health overkill?

              Originally posted by Fincuan View Post
              Static weapon gunners have always been a breed of their own, and are now tougher than ever. It takes a ridiculous amount of shots to down them. That said I just played a few hours of Domi using mostly an SA-58, which fires the 7.62x51 NATO M80 round, and had no trouble downing regular infantry. Mostly it took one shot to drop them, sometimes two, and I didn't have anyone move after shooting them three times(apart from the already mentioned gunners). Somehow the wounding system is just geared against 5.56, making it very ineffective. :)
              I think that's because ACE2 tries to be "as realistic as possible" in a game that has some limitation on said realism.
              The 5.56 round is famous for not being as lethal as most soldiers would like, usually causing incapacitations rather than lethal wounds. If you factor in modern body armor with ceramic plates, the 5.56 is a relatively sub-par choice when you want to kill someone and you have bigger rounds avaiable (let's forget for a moment that the 5.56 is generally more accurate, less expensive, less heavy, has a much lower recoil, and as long as you hit someone with ANY round he will probably be unable to fight back :D ). The problem is that to accurately simulate this the current "hit points" system is inadequate, since the game should take into account whether the target is wearing body armor, what type of armor, where the shot hits, HOW the shot hits, how damaging the shot is (even if the ceramic plate stops the round, it will still hurt, a LOT), whether it's one of those lucky shots that fail to hit anything important and taking into consideration the pain treshold of the target. ArmA2 simplify this by making all guns almost equally effective, having similar damage values compared to the hitpoints of the target: it takes 2 body shots with 5.56 and 5.45 rounds, either 1 or 2 body shots with 7.62 rounds, 1 shot everywhere with a .50 cal, 2 to 5 body shots with a handgun.
              So, from what I understand, ACE made most weapons deal much less damage so as to find a compromise between lethality and body protection, something that against AIs does not work too well since they tend to ignore pain effects, and also makes some guns useless (I remember, in the good ol' ArmA1 days when an insurgent was still alive after 3 headshots from an Mp5 in Ortego*. Good times, good times :p ) and also reduces the fun factor while not increasing the realism of the simulation.

              Edit:
              *Clarification: he was incapacitated after the second hit, but he was still alive. ;)
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              • #8
                Re: AI health overkill?

                Originally posted by viper1986 View Post
                Wanted to see if anyone else has noticed this but the AI in every mission I have played so far seem to have an alarming amount of health. Not sure if this is the fault of the ACE damage system that is doing this or what but it's getting to be a little much. Last night on OP Syracuse the JTOC SF team put 5 TAC-50 rounds into a machine gunner and he kept on trucking. I also noticed a problem when I put 15 M16 rounds into a guy and he just shrugged it off. It cannot be a lag problem because the mission played very smooth.
                Our sniper did the exact same thing with the same results using the TAC-50sd.
                The greater the power, the more dangerous the abuse. EDMUND BURKE 1771

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                • #9
                  Re: AI health overkill?

                  It took me 40 rounds on target to kill 6 guys in Overload yesterday with an m4 Short-dot SD.




                  "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. " - Albert Einstein

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                  • #10
                    Re: AI health overkill?

                    I'm not sure about this, but ACE might be taking range into account also.

                    While we were playing Untern on Friday night I was unable to drop enemy soldiers at 300-400m with an M4 ACOG, but when we were clearing Grishino I dropped a couple of guys no problems at around 50m.

                    I'm of the opinion now that all TG infantry be armed with Heavy SCARs. 5.56 just doesn't get the job done. :)

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                    • #11
                      Re: AI health overkill?

                      All of my shots were at roughly 100 meters, so I'm still befuzzled.




                      "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. " - Albert Einstein

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                      • #12
                        Re: AI health overkill?

                        30 meter range 4 shots with m4 all center mass. I noticed it also, I do not know what is causing it. But, using a non-ace weapon [416 wps pack], they drop with one hit.
                        |TG|Ghost02
                        TG Pathfinder



                        "I travel alone through the valley of the shadow of death, yet in my heart I carry no fear, for Gods hands will guide me to Truth and Honor."

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                        • #13
                          Re: AI health overkill?

                          Believe me, distance doesn't matter when you've put 5 .50 cal rounds into a soldier. He drops to the ground regardless of where it is. A round like that after a long range shot does more damage because of kenetics then the fact it's a large piece of metal.
                          FORMER 22ND RRR/FORMER 1ST JTOC/ ALWAYS A TACTICALGAMER


                          Spartan 4

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                          • #14
                            Re: AI health overkill?

                            I have an idea, set the health of the AI down a little and see what happens. I will look into that.
                            |TG|Ghost02
                            TG Pathfinder



                            "I travel alone through the valley of the shadow of death, yet in my heart I carry no fear, for Gods hands will guide me to Truth and Honor."

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                            • #15
                              Re: AI health overkill?

                              Try setting the health and skill down. I have seen if you leave the AI at the default setting when you place them they are basically terminators.

                              [unit][squadl][command2]

                              KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

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