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[tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

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  • [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

    Task Force Proteus

    will be hosting another radio/communications procedure course on the specified date. Zedic may or may not be making this one, so you can all have the amazing experience as myself as head instructor. We have had a large influx of new players on TG, and as such, all of you need to know how to communicate on radio and yelling in an actual professional and efficient manner.

    All are welcome to attend, whether you have already attended the course or not. We will have instructors available to handle practical only portions of the course for those who have attended already.

    For the rest of you, I hope to see you there.

    -jaynus


    COMMUNICATIONS COURSE

    DATE: TUESDAY APRIL 20TH 2010
    TIME: 1600PST
    COURSE RUN TIME: 120-180 MINUTES

    PREREQUISITES: READ UPDATED RADIO PROCEDURE GUIDE AND COPY "REPORTS AND RETURNS PARAS".
    RADIO PROCEDURE GUIDE: http://kezei.net/arma2/


    EXAMPLE:
    PARA A: INITIATE TRAFFIC WITH RECEIVING CALLSIGN
    PARA B: SEND GRID OF POSITION AND DISPLACEMENT
    PARA C: SEND GRID OF INTENDED DESTINATION


    **NOTE** This guide was written by Zedic. It is not taken from Military Manuals but is instead a Military Adaptation of Radio Procedure I have created for your benefit. It may look intimidating and lengthy but believe me when I tell you it is not. It is well worth the read and the information provided will be invaluable throughout your online gaming experiences. I have also updated it to include an understanding of the new Radio System adopted.



    COURSE LAYOUT/ITINERARY:

    1. INSTALLATION AND SET UP OF NEW RADIO PROGRAM;
    2. BRIEF REVIEW OF RADIO PROCEDURE GUIDE;
    3. COURSE INTRODUCTION AND INTRODUCTION TO THE COMMUNICATIONS SOFTWARE;
    4. DISCUSS INITIATION/RECEIVING TRAFFIC AND ENDING;
    5. PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF RADIO PROCEDURE; and
    6. COURSE CRITIQUE.


    **Note** If you have completed this course prior we will have instructors just doing the Practical Phase of this training for your benefit omitting and skipping all of the Technical information and set up.

    |TG-TFP|Jaynus
    Task Force Proteus


    The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but Im just not close enough to get the job done."

  • #2
    Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

    I recommend you all join this course! Its very well done, informative and above all fun. It will also help us keep comms precise sharp short and accurate. This all will come in very handy if and when you join us on large scale missions where correct radio comms can make or break the missions. Last but not least it will help you feel more comfortable using the radio mod the way it was meant to work....so what are you waiting for.....sign up today.



    sigpic

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    • #3
      Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

      Shall we sign up below?

      If so, I'll be the first to sign up for this course.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

        I'll be there.
        In-game nick: [FSG]Oskar Xfire: wrestlersesf

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

          yes I would love to take it, count me in!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

            Please people sign up for this course so you don't leave your radio broadcasting for 5 min putting static in everyone's ears then get someone banned for yelling at you.

            Also its a really good course in general. It was the 1st thing I logged onto the TG servers for and learned a lot from Zedic and Jaynus. Also their navigation course was nice as well, but I guess ya'll are just doing the one this time.
            I have completed the following TG ArmA2 courses:
            Navigation | Communications | Fireteam Operations | Basic Transport Helo

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

              Where do I sign up?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

                Originally posted by FrankManik View Post
                Where do I sign up?
                you just did :)

                [unit][squadl][command2]

                KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

                  It was interesting, and you've done good work getting the information put into a system, typos aside, but I have some suggestions.

                  First, I think you should structure the communications so that it is compatible with COs that do not know the procedure fully. I am not sure how much I will be able to put the strict comms structure here into practice without confusing a CO or RTO who hasn't fully learned them. I think getting basic proficiency and brevity ingrained in the average member is more important than implementing the level of complexity and RL accuracy found in the current offering. I think the level of detail and strictness built into the comms as presented here is going to create more problems than it solves for the time being. It is a good goal for us to be able to use such in the future, but for now just getting people to learn how to give proper intra-squad contact reports is more important, and as such a more remedial approach would be better. Focusing less on technicalities of procedure and order of information and more on how to be brief, accurate, and clear in general would be beneficial.

                  Also, a few of the comm procedures will almost never be used and could be dropped in order to focus on more pertinent ones. For instance, I do not think I have ever called in a resupply mission in TG. No one is probably ever going to call a resupply mission into a hot LZ, and the vector is usually very apparent in our missions given the fairly localized and low-scale nature of the opposition and AO, so some of the technicalities could be foregone there. I think getting a simple, straight-forward system drilled into our heads that everyone can adopt without so much of a steep learning curve would be better than trying to get us to memorize all these steps and exact orders of comms for situations where a single message can get the info across just as well.

                  Examples of (imo) extraneous comms:
                  • Telling CO who you are calling a firemission/CAS for. I am not sure how this will ever be important information in the typical TG mission.
                  • Giving CO/CAS element your freq. It is hard enough just getting everyone to follow basic comms protocol when we had the TS plugin working, and there isn't really enough traffic on the comnet to necessitate keeping the LR this free.
                  • Giving permission for the CAS to go hot. I've yet to encounter a situation where such permission was needed. Usually, the CAS requester waits until he is ready for the go ahead before even calling the mission, so it should be implied that the CAS element is clear to engage at his discretion once the request is made. This may be needed IRL, but in the fairly small-scale TG missions it's extraneous.
                  I feel like getting us to practice basic comms protocol, teaching us important phrases like "howcopy", "oscar mike", or "out", and actually constructing a coherent comms system that details when/why a certain actor (FTL/SL/CO/CAS/Rifleman) should initiate a communication would be more useful. That said, more of an emphasis on intra-squad comms would be nice, especially when it comes to SLs, who ime could use a lot of assistance in good, clear communication with their FTLs and squads as a whole.

                  For instance, drilling it into formation leaders when to say "halt" or when to say "moving out", to mention bearing when starting out, to create a simple system for when a contact is seen: "contact! 3 o-clock, near!" and keeping good comms up in non-broadcasting situations, like, "two men to the NE moving left to right, close, one down!", "watch out, two men moved behind that yellow house to our 10 o clock, watch for the left flank!", or "there are still at least three contacts behind that wall", or "give me a base of fire, I am flanking them on the right" or "heads up! friendly coming in from your east!" would be super, super, super duper useful.

                  Basically, get people talking in engagements in a way more useful than "they're shooting at me!" or the ubiquitous "[dead silence]".

                  As it is, I'm not sure how much of this I really got into my head, and I'm not sure how much I want to since, as I said, it might just lead to more problems. I think more rudimentary procedures should be the goal for now.

                  When designing a course like this, you have to think of it like this: you have 100 minutes, and each minute you spend on something small and unnecessary is a minute not spent on something important. Introducing 50 ideas in 100 minutes means your students barely learn 10 things and probably forget the other 40; introducing 5 ideas in 100 minutes means they learn 5 things well. At TG, there is a LOT of low hanging fruit we should be focusing on in regards to comms, and I think I've outlined a few of those big old apples here.

                  Anyway, thanks for the help and effort, I'll try to put as much into practice as practicable (another term we should look into).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

                    Hawk, the CO's will know the comms. Believe me, what you learned is highly practicable. This is the best and most usable course on comms we have ever had, and you will use it, all of it. Resupply and all.
                    |TG|Ghost02
                    TG Pathfinder



                    "I travel alone through the valley of the shadow of death, yet in my heart I carry no fear, for Gods hands will guide me to Truth and Honor."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

                      Originally posted by David View Post
                      First, I think you should structure the communications so that it is compatible with COs that do not know the procedure fully. I am not sure how much I will be able to put the strict comms structure here into practice without confusing a CO or RTO who hasn't fully learned them. I think getting basic proficiency and brevity ingrained in the average member is more important than implementing the level of complexity and RL accuracy found in the current offering. I think the level of detail and strictness built into the comms as presented here is going to create more problems than it solves for the time being. It is a good goal for us to be able to use such in the future, but for now just getting people to learn how to give proper intra-squad contact reports is more important, and as such a more remedial approach would be better. Focusing less on technicalities of procedure and order of information and more on how to be brief, accurate, and clear in general would be beneficial.
                      The first portion of the course is all related to information surrounding the concept of communications., be it the ABCs, types of nets, usage of nets, the table chart, etc. Unfortunatley I wasn't on my 'A' game last night because I've been ill. As well though, the timing for last night that was set was at 1900 EST and yourself and Matt filtered in around 2000 EST so if I'd of kicked off properly you would've missed the whole first portion of the theory of communications (Maybe a good thing considering it can be dry :P).

                      Now as for the complexity and difficulty of some of the reports and returns, I completely acknowledged that people are not going to know them through and through. I know they may even forget everything by the end of the course but I'd like to hope they don't. The idea behind training at such a high standard is that if the candidates fall down to a lower level during normal play they will still be above that of a 'normal public player'. The idea behind the reports and returns is to emphasize the ABCs of communication, even if you don't get the report or return properly the only thing that matters is the information. I thought I had communicated this at the end, but while in the course I try to have an unrealistically high expectation of perfection. Why? Because I want people to strive for it, to feel silly when they make a small mistake, to be angry at themselves when they mix up their words, or forget information or best of all ask a question. The best motivator for learning can be yourself and thats why I am so anal about the criteria.



                      Originally posted by David View Post
                      Also, a few of the comm procedures will almost never be used and could be dropped in order to focus on more pertinent ones. For instance, I do not think I have ever called in a resupply mission in TG. No one is probably ever going to call a resupply mission into a hot LZ, and the vector is usually very apparent in our missions given the fairly localized and low-scale nature of the opposition and AO, so some of the technicalities could be foregone there. I think getting a simple, straight-forward system drilled into our heads that everyone can adopt without so much of a steep learning curve would be better than trying to get us to memorize all these steps and exact orders of comms for situations where a single message can get the info across just as well.
                      I have done it before man, you would be surprised. Perhaps the missions right now just don't make it seem required but I assure you, I've done it on Afrene's Awakening before many times.


                      Originally posted by David View Post
                      Examples of (imo) extraneous comms:
                      • Telling CO who you are calling a firemission/CAS for. I am not sure how this will ever be important information in the typical TG mission.
                      • Giving CO/CAS element your freq. It is hard enough just getting everyone to follow basic comms protocol when we had the TS plugin working, and there isn't really enough traffic on the comnet to necessitate keeping the LR this free.
                      • Giving permission for the CAS to go hot. I've yet to encounter a situation where such permission was needed. Usually, the CAS requester waits until he is ready for the go ahead before even calling the mission, so it should be implied that the CAS element is clear to engage at his discretion once the request is made. This may be needed IRL, but in the fairly small-scale TG missions it's extraneous.
                      I feel like getting us to practice basic comms protocol, teaching us important phrases like "howcopy", "oscar mike", or "out", and actually constructing a coherent comms system that details when/why a certain actor (FTL/SL/CO/CAS/Rifleman) should initiate a communication would be more useful. That said, more of an emphasis on intra-squad comms would be nice, especially when it comes to SLs, who ime could use a lot of assistance in good, clear communication with their FTLs and squads as a whole.
                      Point 1: So that the CO is aware that a firemission is in effect, but if your on the same net as him then he can clearly hear it. Or if you were to request for a firemission (be it CAS or Artillery) and the CO can then have the ability to cancel your request for a more pertinent target.

                      Point 2: If we had a full 50-75 player mission then issuing frequencies based on platoons would be paramount as well as having a full on command net, reference "Net Table" http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4076/commsradio.jpg

                      The overall purpose is because if a Helo is on a fire support control net receiving his orders from a FAC, then he has to go do whatever, they may want to get in contact with the requesting ground callsign. Situation dependent but regardless it is one of those things that I feel should be included unless all assets are on the same Long Range Net.

                      Point 3: I have, it was for GBUs on an objective, my squad was too close and the laser wasn't sticking right. The Air Support mission was called, laser batterie died. Couldn't clear hot the plane as he couldn't gain 'Tally'.

                      Things like How Copy and Oscar Mike and whatever else you see in Generation Kill are not NATO standard. Thats what I teach, is an adaptation of NATO standard. Those 'Prowords' are not even that, its common radio slang adopted by the American Forces. Sure, it sounds cool sometimes but if you wanted to figure out all those terms, go nuts. I posted many of them in my Prowords section of my Radio Procedure Guide, teaching something like that would be like reading through a dictionary IMO.

                      As for intra-squad communications, that is covered in a course called 'Fireteam Operations Course' where it is taught how to operate as a 4 man fireteam.

                      Most definitely appreciate the criticism and if you have any further queries or comments feel free to approach me on Teamspeak. But I assure you my friend, there is always a method to my madness and I am not adding needless things from the military. There is always a purpose or a use that may not be seen. But please come shoot the sh!t about this stuff on TS3, I'll seek you out and we can get more of a face-to-face and clarify anything else.

                      Thanks again Hawk.

                      Pro Patria

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

                        i thought we were ditching the radio mod


                        "im free of all predjudices, i hate everyone equally" -Brad
                        "Fine, ill just talk to my fellow corpses!"-Chris G-AKA Miles Tegg

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

                          Thanks, Zedic. I'm still skeptical about some of it, especially resupply, and LZ nature for resupply, and the like, but I'll give it a shot and study it a bit more. My mistake for thinking I came on time! It was 1900 CST when I dropped by. I must've missed the EST. I didn't mean to drop in half-way through, I suppose I shouldn't criticize then if I missed half of it. That said, more time spent actually practicing would have been useful. We got maybe two chances to practice any given protocol, and that just wasn't enough for it to sink in imo. Running the full course, although tedious, would have produced a far better memorization. I suppose I can just boot it up on my own, though, and run through it in my free time.

                          One point about your response, though, is that I'm not sure we need to be strictly NATO standard, especially given how frequent less "standard" speech gets in. I appreciate the effort, and understand that teaching higher than you expect students to reach is a good thing, but also teaching at the level you expect to be used regularly and really drilling in the basics is also a good thing.

                          Along those lines, there's a simple 7-digit gridref you might want to consider: the standard 6 and then a further number 1-9 that corresponds to a 9-section grid like that of a telephone pad. 1 = NW corner, 9 = SE corner, 5 = center. I've found it extremely helpful before, especially as I'm not someone writing everything down during games and the 8-digit codes would throw me for a spin.

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                          • #14
                            Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

                            LOL I think the numpad system is good for Battlefield 2. For ARMA2; I'll stick to my ten digit grids thanks ;)

                            Pro Patria

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: [tfp communications course] - radio procedure and communications - 4.20.2010

                              Yeah, yeah :)

                              Alternative is using a NW/N/NE/W/C/E/SW/S/SE so as to not confuse with the comms. Like:
                              "grid 123033 charlie" is easier for people to remember than "grid 12350335" or "123033-5" which is confusing. Not everyone has Zedic-like comms skills, so I feel like having that would help.

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