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  • Need Your Thoughts Guys!

    So, with ACRE out and running we are probably going to change up the SOP's as far as radios and VON and whatnot is concerned just like we did with A2TS. So what I need from you guys is your thoughts on how you would like to see said SOP's laid out. Some guidlines and general ideas about it.

    I was thinking that we should nix VON text unless its an Admin/PF putting out info not related to the mission. This would enforce the use of ACRE as well as adding in a wee bit of realism. So basically, if you walk off too far and lose comms with the CO you are SOL and cant use Side Chat or anything like that to tell him. It will be on you to get your comms up again.

    So, what are your guys thoughts?

    [unit][squadl][command2]

    KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

  • #2
    Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

    Completely in agreement that text chat should be reserved for technical comments and questions ("AFK", "I'm crashing", whatever) and admin-level information.

    My main concern is that the Direct chat in ACRE is much, much too difficult to use for intra-squad comms in its current state. It's very difficult to relay information to anyone who's more than ~15' away. We need some way to effectively chat with our team at longer range than is currently possible. I would like to see that happen via dedicated squad-level radio frequencies, and if possible, in combination with a modification to ACRE that lets Direct chat work at slightly greater distances.

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    • #3
      Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

      I would like all text chat, barring group (because some people dont have mic's....coughHASHcough......)treated as if it were global. IE: Only for admins. If you are a squad leader and you cannot raise command on radios then theres no excuse to start typeing on command net or side to see whats going on. I beleave this would be much better than letting people work around the radios when confusion sets in. Would lead to some beautiful charlie foxtrots and the possibility of some great gameplay. "Well were at our final WP.....should we move on target? Cant raise command....hmmmm.....ok boys were moving on target!! CHARGE!!!" *low rumbleing noise* "What the hell is that? OH SWEET JESUS A JDAM!!! AAARRRGGGGHHH-" etc etc
      Nihility

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      • #4
        Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

        Perhaps some inter-squad comms could be in order as well. IE, in a 6-10 man squad with dedicated elements (AT, spotters, etc) that may or may not be in the main group, switching to say, handheld channel 3 while the SL uses 1 to communicate with inter-squad, and a radioman to relay info? not sure how multiple channels will mesh quite right without the ability to scan-lock the available channels and stop when someone is squaking.

        <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
        <04:16:25> "|TG-XV| Tralic": this channel is so gay
        DICE needs to make a comical boxing glove attached to a spring punch the player in the face 40% of the time they get into a helicopter or jet.

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        • #5
          Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

          I think we'll still need text chat on some level, at least for JIPs and those without mics, other than that would be down for a general no no on text use, if Acre proves to be stable enough in the long run *fingers crossed*

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          • #6
            Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

            It would be good if ACRE worked with the different VON channels - i.e. as you select Group (squad), Command or Side the ACRE mod automatically changed frequencies to a different channel and thus returned the original VON style comms but with the added realism of line of sight and interference. I like the mod for the added realism but it is a pain not being able to communicate to your whole squad, especially if you have split your fireteams up meaning you can't talk to your split team unless you use global.

            Maybe suggest to the DEV team that the < & > keys are channel frequency changer buttons with the radio having auto scan to receive messages on all channels (if squad leader/commander)
            [RIP] Rusty In Places - Games Commander

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            • #7
              Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

              Jacezz, good point about JIPs. I imagine that on maps with respawn, this is an issue as well; last night, for example, we tested one of Lokka's new missions. The respawn point was far enough back from the front line that our current "Global only for Command" would mean that everyone who died would effectively be out of their squad.

              Dredge, maybe the solution here is to pre-establish frequencies: CO is always on 30.25, Alpha Squad is always on the next frequency, and so on. That would ensure that there was a consistent in-game mechanic for squad comms, alleviating the JIP/respawn issue, and still allowing for the realism and potential confusion that ACRE offers.

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              • #8
                Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

                Or, we could allow group chat is it would simulate "squad radios".

                [unit][squadl][command2]

                KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

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                • #9
                  Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

                  Originally posted by ellF View Post
                  Completely in agreement that text chat should be reserved for technical comments and questions ("AFK", "I'm crashing", whatever) and admin-level information.

                  My main concern is that the Direct chat in ACRE is much, much too difficult to use for intra-squad comms in its current state. It's very difficult to relay information to anyone who's more than ~15' away. We need some way to effectively chat with our team at longer range than is currently possible. I would like to see that happen via dedicated squad-level radio frequencies, and if possible, in combination with a modification to ACRE that lets Direct chat work at slightly greater distances.

                  First I'll say I think we need a couple of weeks before we start enforcing SOP's. Get everyone up to speed on installing it and give some time to fiddle around with it in game. Sort of a shake down for the server population.

                  Direct chat was awful for me last night. I missed many orders and found myself separated from my squad numerous times during the mission. I think it will only work incidentally...that is, while assembled up

                  But my SL didn't have a short range radio...as I understand it the SL can assign a frequency and the squaddies can set that frequency in their own radio so that the SL can issue orders over the radio instead of direct chat. If you are deployed on line over a 50-100 m formation we've GOT to use the radios to communicate...The SL then must go back and forth between radios to talk with command.


                  Have more thoughts on this but need to get to working...I will come back later.
                  sigpic
                  |TG-1st|Grunt
                  ARMA Admin (retired)
                  Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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                  • #10
                    Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

                    It would, Dredge, but at the cost of removing the neat radio effects -- I like the idea of being separated from my squad and losing radio contact, struggling to find a clear signal to call in a report when I'm on forward observer duty, and so on. :)

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                    • #11
                      Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

                      Originally posted by Grunt 70 View Post
                      First I'll say I think we need a couple of weeks before we start enforcing SOP's.
                      Agreed. This is more of a "Community Feel" type deal. Nothing will be set in stone. Just getting a the "lay of the land" as far as what everyone will be looking for in terms of SOP's.

                      EDIT:

                      Decided to "throw in" another set of random quotes just to "make my post" better.


                      [unit][squadl][command2]

                      KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

                        I've excerpted a post below from a thread longtime put up today about ACRE...

                        This will be a WIP of course but I will advocate for squad level default comms to go through SR radio with each squad in game on it's own dedicated channel. The info below goes into a bit of detail on that.


                        From what I understand the teamspeak PTT broadcasts as direct chat in game. This in fact was the case for me last night but, for me at least, was a big step backward . Direct chat using the TS PTT has very limited range. If the squad is deployed in formation over 50-100m using direct for a contact report, for instance, means only the guy on each side of me hears the report. That also means only the guys in very close proximity to the SL will hear orders if they are broadcast on direct chat.

                        I would think--and hope--that most comms on a squad level will go through a short range radio that is using a dedicated channel . In game PTT then enables the squad members to broadcast to only to other members of the squad. The SL is tasked with juggling the LR and SR radios depending on who he needs to talk to.

                        In my one and only ACRE attempt last night I think the SL (was it you Glory?) did not have a SR radio in his pack. All squad level comms were done through direct (using TS PTT) and I missed several movement orders because the SL issued them while was out of range of direct chat. It was really frustrating, especially in light of the fact I was equipped with the squad automatic weapon. On most of the assaults and tactical movements I was not in position to use the SAW as it's meant to be.

                        I know we are day one out of the box so these things will likely fix themselves but in the short term I can't see how direct chat will work as the default squad level comms channel. Of course it will still be effective if we are l assembled at an RP but a deployed squad is going to lose combat effectiveness if direct is used by default.
                        sigpic
                        |TG-1st|Grunt
                        ARMA Admin (retired)
                        Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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                        • #13
                          Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

                          Additonal thoughts excerpted from another related thread...relevent to evolving SOP's

                          I stand by my original point that direct won't cut it unless we are in very very close close proximity. That may work for small fire teams . The FT lead will carry a SR to talk with the SL so that only the command units in the squad have to deal with the radio. But counter to that....If I'm reading it correctly the ACRE mod will allow multiple radios and multiple broadcast channels and hot keys. If so this would easily enable the FT leader to utilize a radio channel for Fire teams too. FT members talk only to their fire team while the FT leader is tasked with managing comms between the FT and the SL...while the SL is tasked with managing comms between the FT leaders and Platoon command.

                          As I see it - (remember ...this is a WIP)

                          Platoon command
                          Carries both long range and SR randios
                          LR-Channel 1-X with each squad leader assigned a dedicated channel
                          SR-Platoon command uses this at his discretion to talk with his own command element

                          SL
                          Carries SR and LR radios
                          LR channel 1 talks to Platoon Command
                          LR channel 2-X talks to other SL's
                          SR channel 1-x talks to FT leaders


                          Fire Team Leaders
                          Carries SR radio only
                          Channel 1 talks to SL
                          Channel 2 talks to Fire Team Leaders
                          FT lead can use discretion on using direct

                          Fire Team Members
                          Carry only SR radio
                          talks only on 1 channel with FT leader and other FT members
                          sigpic
                          |TG-1st|Grunt
                          ARMA Admin (retired)
                          Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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                          • #14
                            Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

                            Is it possible to syncronize the calls signs between:
                            1) slot up screen
                            2) map screen and
                            3) the call sign we use in game?
                            (exception made when taking over leadership function in the event a FTL or SL is down.)

                            this way our call signs could always be referenced in game. (On the map screen)
                            Jimbo

                            "Help improve immersion, eliminate the green diamonds and map unit icons."

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                            • #15
                              Re: Need Your Thoughts Guys!

                              A2TS necessitated the deployment of a radio operator (RTO) within squads to facilitate the communication between higher means and that unit. Example:

                              Hitman-1 SQL [SR]
                              Hitman-1 Medic [LR]

                              Hitman-1,1 FTL [SR]
                              Hitman-1,1 AR
                              Hitman-1,1 GREN
                              Hitman-1,1 R(AT)

                              Hitman-1,2 FTL [SR]
                              Hitman-1,2 AR
                              Hitman-1,2 GREN
                              Hitman-1,2 R(AT)


                              In this deployment, fireteams communicate directly intra-unit, and over a short-range band to other fireteams and their squad leader. Meanwhile, the medic (or a dedicated position, as is warranted) operates as the RTO, receiving and transmitting traffic on behalf of the squad leader. This reduces the amount of clutter the SQL (who needs to facilitate the orders of the FTLs as well as react to higher means traffic) receives, and pushes the task of monitoring the massive clutter of command traffic to someone with fewer ultimate responsibilities.

                              If a mission calls for fireteam- (or less-than-squad-strength-) organization, the following pattern could be implemented:

                              Hitman-1,1 FTL [SR]
                              Hitman-1,1 AR [SR]
                              Hitman-1,1 GREN [SR/LR]
                              Hitman-1,1 R(AT) [SR]

                              In this configuration, the fireteam uses a short-wave band to communicate amongst their unit, and the grenadier is tasked as the unit's RTO to communicate with higher means.


                              Both of these setups worked in A2TS, and I see no reason they can't work here. The RTO is a seriously vital position in any individual unit, and one shouldn't take for granted the amount of stress a leader position will invoke on himself by packing the LR personally.

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