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  • PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

    So anybody given any thought as to how dramatically the influx of thousands of players will potentially affect the general ARMA 2 community (est. largely in Arma 1)? Just wondering...PR's community has been shaped by the battlefield experience... expectations of bad player behavior, lack of maturity, cliquey and judgemental players who aren't interested in newbies or helping bring people up to speed with change. Here we tell people to read SOPS and advise further in a holistic manner. In PR people get 'RTFM' in the 128 character chat line, which means something close to 'have a look at the manual old chap'...

    In ARMA I've witnessed interactions between human beings... in PR I've witnessed interactions between human beings constrained by a hugely flawed system of limited communication, traditions of bad behaviour and a level of paranoid suspicion from server and community administrators trying to sort the trash from the treasure. It's my personal opinion that on a very human level and from everything I have seen, PR has brought out the very worst in its players and its administrators at all levels, fuelled by the competitive nature of the game, the geopolitical rivalries inherent to the nations presented and ease of autocracy, cliques or special-interests inherent to BF2. In PR it goes well beyond 'in house squads'... there is a longstanding tradition of clique domination, especially on larger community servers. Coupling the supremacy of a few with the general 'competitive' game mindset which states that it is not possible to have fun unless somebody is not, is not very productive at all in terms of building a community. In fact I think with those conditions you'd normally expect to get little more than a massive mob of people who agree on little more than that they like dropping bombs on or shooting other people because it makes them feel good. Am I advocating 'PVE' or 'Carebear' content? Hell no. We have TVT ops here at TG:A2, but what we do have beyond that is interactions beyond the immediate pull of the trigger that adds a face, a name and a history of interactions to the person we just shot. We laugh about it afterwards, compliment each other on good manuevers or fires... and generally exhibit behavior demonstrating we're here for a good time, not just to get 'kills for thrills'.

    I'm not arguing that PR shouldn't take any opportunity to grow what they have, but I am putting forward that for the purists here at TG, there might be some concessions to be made... and even the possibility that unforseen spillover. Ramifications that might forever alter the fabric of what has been a pretty steady, if low-key ARMA2 community that I've known since I joined. I guess my real concern is that the influx of members bringing learned behaviors and established 'alliances' from PR is going to take precedent over the mature community that has been built here.

    The admins here do a great job of serving the needs of the community and unlike the PR moderators who style themselves as 'Riot Police' you guys remind me more of police working a late-night RIDE Check. Does it make you any less capable of acting in a real crisis or judging potentially 'illegal' activity? Not at all. But because you're not running on adrenaline and a power trip, you're a lot more qualified to make balanced, mundane decisions. This isn't about the forums though, it's about in-game. TG ARMA 2 moderators direct traffic (posting maps or changing them) enforce the speed limit (language, content or behavior rules) help re-route the public around hazardous obstacles (technical issues) and most importantly, show up for their day in court when you challenge a ticket (CAA Forums). PR's written policy (on forums and on most of the servers) is 'complaining gets you banned.'

    I'm talking about taking a community built on real, North American values and integrating it with something run at its core by good people but that resembles rather closely in its administration some of the less savoury parts of North Korea. I could spend hours posting my personal experiences, inviting others to do the same and getting flamed out by members of this community or defensive new posters (maybe even getting warned in the process)... but at the risk of sounding like I usually do (negative) is there any bright side that anybody can see to bringing in a new system that many players of ARMA 2 have either never tried or are refugees from?

    I trust that ARMA 2 will still exist in its current incarnation, but I suspect that there will be a mass-migration of eager players from A2:ACE to A2:PR in the first few weeks, leaving the 'vanilla' servers empty. I also anticipate that people complaining they want to play ACE/Vanilla will receive a cut/pasted message about the ACE/Vanilla servers being open for business (bureaucracy, not democracy). Then maybe after the initial glow has worn off, people will start reaching each other through forum PMs, TS or 3rd party chat software to ask 'You want to play old school?' and then perhaps, a match or two will be thrown together for 'old times sake'.

    Will we see players playing both versions harmoniously? Will we style the existing ARMA2 standard as some holy grail of tactical gameplay that only the wheat from the Project Reality chaff can aspire to? That depends on how PR accomplishes its integration with ARMA2 -AND- on how Tactical Gamer actually treats a small and (I would suspect) relatively unprofitable portion of its donor community... especially since the prospect obviously exists of potentially lucrative long-term integration with the budding PR franchise. I suspect we'll find out when it is announced whether SM status buys guaranteed server slot access to their PR servers somehow. But then again I'm still waiting for my quarterly donor report so we'll see.

    What can I say, I'm always the TL: DR doomsday prophet about these things. Is this kind of like 'Change '08?' Somebody prove me wrong.

    EDIT: I'm also rolling the dice on whether word of dissent will spread like wildfire and this post be taken over/suppressed/suicide flamed by overly defensive players not familiar to or long departed from these forums before it gets read over by the existing TG:A2 players.
    Last edited by Hank Rearden; 08-05-2010, 07:58 AM.


    If the leader is filled with high ambition and if he pursues his aims with audacity and strength of will, he will reach them in spite of all obstacles.
    -Carl Von Clausewitz



    'The Great Game' -Blog on War in Afghanistan:

  • #2
    Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

    Some really interesting points made, and some bang on commentary on the different player groups, even if the different sides will not come out and admit it. In the whole I do need to agree with you, especially on migration. I am sure some people will misread and say that you called out TG's PR server players and staff, but having read closely one can see that the habits mentioned are indicative of the PR community as a whole.

    If anyone tl: dr's this, I swear to god...

    Great post, + rep.




    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. " - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

      I think it will lead to the BanoCaust. Ive said that before, and im sticking by it. That said why would the Arma2 PR players effect the arma2 OA/ACE players seeing as they will be on seperate servers? As long as the forums arent merged itll be fine. 90% of the current player base HATE TvT with a passion as there not used to an enemy that can think, so theres another reason why the two community's wont mingle that much.
      Nihility

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

        The transition of PR to ARMA will definitely be an interesting one. There will, without a doubt be problems, difficulties and 'chaff' to be dealt with. Did that ever stop TG's ARMA community before? Remember when ArmA 2 first arrived? People had their doubts there too, why? Because change is change, old things move on and new things move in.

        However, don't like this idea that any game at TG is any less than another, correct me if I am wrong but we are all part of the same community here. Personally I play PR, with the occasional bit of BC2. Does that make me less of a 'good' TG member than an ArmA player? Apologies if the
        Coupling the supremacy of a few
        is coming through here. ;)


        As of now I am assuming that you have played the majority of your PR days at a non-TG server, and have rarely visited the TG PR forums. Again, apologies if that is a rather large assumption, but then again.

        In fact I think with those conditions you'd normally expect to get little more than a massive mob of people who agree on little more than that they like dropping bombs on or shooting other people because it makes them feel good.
        Is a rather large generalization as well.

        Don't forget that in PR there are many communities aside from TG, not everyone is going to come piling to the TG server, especially if they know the high standards the TG PR server sets. Why would it be any different on the TG ArmA PR server? I have trust in the admins to sort that out, just like with any other TG server.

        The admins here do a great job of serving the needs of the community and unlike the PR moderators who style themselves as 'Riot Police' you guys remind me more of police working a late-night RIDE Check. Does it make you any less capable of acting in a real crisis or judging potentially 'illegal' activity? Not at all. But because you're not running on adrenaline and a power trip, you're a lot more qualified to make balanced, mundane decisions. This isn't about the forums though, it's about in-game. TG ARMA 2 moderators direct traffic (posting maps or changing them) enforce the speed limit (language, content or behavior rules) help re-route the public around hazardous obstacles (technical issues) and most importantly, show up for their day in court when you challenge a ticket (CAA Forums). PR's written policy (on forums and on most of the servers) is 'complaining gets you banned.'
        This whole section is largely pointless, why compare TG administration to PR administration??? You may as well compare our forums to the steam forums... two completely different animals, of course policing a small town is going to be different than policing a city. Last I checked the PR mod doesn't come with PR administration, so the TG admins will still be in control? The admin team isn't suddenly going to degrade because a new mod is installed. lol.


        Will we see players playing both versions harmoniously? Will we style the existing ARMA2 standard as some holy grail of tactical game play that only the wheat from the Project Reality chaff can aspire to? That depends on how PR accomplishes its integration with ARMA2 -AND- on how Tactical Gamer actually treats a small and (I would suspect) relatively unprofitable portion of its donor community... especially since the prospect obviously exists of potentially lucrative long-term integration with the budding PR franchise. I suspect we'll find out when it is announced whether SM status buys guaranteed server slot access to their PR servers somehow. But then again I'm still waiting for my quarterly donor report so we'll see.
        Rather, I expect that the survival of TG ArmA 2 is more down to how you guys react, if we all brace our selves for the incoming riot and batten down the hatches, then yes I am quite certain the community will be worsened. On the other hand, how about we wait until it is actually released, wait until the TG administration have decided on the way to go. See what actually happens?


        ---
        Basically, I ask for both the TG PR and ArmA communities to come together without prejudging each other. Personally, I couldn't care less about PR or ArmA as a whole, so long as TG is keeping it together. I trust the administration to do what is best for all parts of the community. :)

        I respect your opinion, and I have seen your edit. I don't want to sound like I am flaming your post. I just find it a little detrimental to your worries that instead of helping the two communities mould together you are instead making large, un-flattering generalisations that does nothing more than widen the rift between the two. I know you like your game and community, and don't want it to be damaged, I don't want it to be damaged either. I am a member of TG and I wouldn't want any section of our community to be damaged and people feeling put out. However, I also feel this about my own game (PR) and would like it if we were given the chance to show what we can do.

        So to any ArmA player who has Bf2, I say come and play on TG PR. Join one of the TG squads and see what PR is all about. Its not about kills, or flag capping or points. Its about the community, we may seem hostile to outsiders but that is because we don't want our game to be damaged, new players to come ruin the perfectly set MOD that we all use as our haven from vanilla bf2. We know how it is to have a huge influx of new players to PR. When EA advertised PR on the front page of BF2, many PR players had the exact same worries as you. Look how it turned out? IMO not so bad...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

          I dont think anyone here is hostile towards new players. I, after being helped myself, have helped around 8 people people set up acre. The most recent being yesterday when i jumped out of game (even though i was dieing to play) to help an old Arma2 Ace2 player who had returned get setup. Most people would do the same. Except dredge. Hes not nice and should be banned.
          Nihility

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

            I guess it all depends on whether your community is built from the ground up or from the top down. If it could meet in the middle, it would be great, but if it could meet in the middle in the real world I'd suspect that most of the problems we have in the world would be nonexistent. In fact, I think a world where ground up and top down meet in the middle would be... stop me if I'm wrong but... perfect?


            If the leader is filled with high ambition and if he pursues his aims with audacity and strength of will, he will reach them in spite of all obstacles.
            -Carl Von Clausewitz



            'The Great Game' -Blog on War in Afghanistan:

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

              I love how your painting PR as a game for kids without Ritalin, thats a good way to talk about a community that will be merging with us in October (Be nice to them). I'd suggest you try playing at TG PR on a password night before you knock the crap out of it.

              And to grow what we have? I think its doing pretty damned fine well as it is thank you very much


              Comment


              • #8
                Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

                Originally posted by Hank Rearden View Post
                In fact, I think a world where ground up and top down meet in the middle would be... stop me if I'm wrong but... perfect?
                Without a doubt, if everyone could agree on everything the world would be perfect. But that is irrelevant, I don't see why you are saying we cant meet in the middle? What middle is there to meet? We are on the same side lol.

                Two TG communities coming together, think of all the opportunities. All the good things that may happen, a breath of TvT fresh air to ArmA. Why do PR and ArmA have to all ways be at each other's throat? I concede that some PR players are not the best, but you can say that about any game. PR and ACE players have a lot in common, a wish to go above and beyond what the game was originally made for. They are both realism mods trying to squeeze all the tactical goodness out of their respective games. On different levels, yes. We are all working towards the same goal.

                I see it not as from the ground up or the top down, but both from the bottom up. Two wrongs don't make a right, but do two rights make a wrong? The answer is we don't know, except that. Wait for the answer to unfold. Instead of making negative threads, lets make a zedic guide for PR players, a shack tac guide for PR players. Use some of that ArmA helping spirit to coax new PR players to an ArmA mindset.

                Maybe we can't make it perfect, but we are TG, we may as well try.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

                  Wow nice bashing... how would u like it if i talked about arma in the pr forums saying how long it takes to set up missions and that u guys cant play worth a damn against other humans


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

                    Straight up Hank. I've PM'd your Game Officer and asked him to close this thread.

                    You are, whether or not you mean to, posting non-community oriented and frankly disrespectful and devisive thoughts. IMO you are slandering the PR and its supporters here and around the world with your generalizations.

                    Nothing good is going to come of this.
                    Im sure you already know others that think as you do. Maybe you could keep those thoughts amongst yourselves and not try to divide the ArmA and PR communities and TG itself.

                    I'm not going to research forum posts to try to make a post here that can't be picked apart, but I believe that your admins and GO have informed you that your ArmA world will still exist AND PR is coming to ArmA2/OA and TG is going to be one of the premier communities for it. There's plenty of room for both ArmA2 as it is now and PR:ArmA. TG and Realitymod have a fantastic relationship and it's never going to change.

                    Yes, you have really upset me Reardon.

                    I'd like to apologize to my good friends here at TG for this outburst....it's only directed towards Hank. There's some incredible people here, but this is a sadly incredible and incredulous OP in this thread.

                    |

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

                      ~Thread Closed~

                      Remarks To Follow. Stand By

                      [unit][squadl][command2]

                      KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

                        Thanks Dredge.

                        I have a few choice words as well once I get to my PC......

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

                          I am sad to see that you had an unfavorable experience with PR in the past Rearden. We have all been on servers that have been populated by immature and rude players. However, that one server doesn't reflect the population of that game on others. The PR community here at TG for example, prides itself on it's high level of teamwork and solid leadership, much like we in ArmA do. No matter what game you play, no matter what server or with what community you play with, there will always be players that are not condusive to the overall good. However, what is offered here at TG is unique in that we dont suffer some of the problems that other communities do.

                          I appreciate the fact that you are concerened for your section of this community. But I feel that your concerns might also been leaning towards "over protection". PR isn't invading ArmA, they aren't moving in and taking over, they are simply melding the two communities into one.

                          I have seen both groups working together to preserve the qualities of both games. Over at PR headquaters there are multiple beta test sessions, input threads and ideas floating back and forth. They are working to keep PR in line with the expectations of veteran PR players, but finding a way to do it that keeps it in line with the expectations of ArmA with its veteran players.

                          I also want to touch on your admin concerns as well. When we heard that PR was coming to ArmA the first discussion the entire admin team had was not how many servers we will have, but who we are going have admining the server. It is as much our concern as it is yours, that we maintain an active admin base to help monitor the server and keep the peace. That being said, no matter who it is you can expect the same level of admining from them as you do with us. I have nothing but respect for the PR admins here at TG, and I have the utmost confidence in them when it comes to admining servers.

                          PR and ArmA have been running side by side here at TG for sometime now and both communities have a mutual respect for the each other. It would only stand to reason that if those communities are brought together the respect would follow.

                          We need to be open and accepting during this time of change. The ArmA Admins and the PR Admins will not tolerate behavior that threatens the community.

                          Originally posted by xsoldier1007 View Post
                          Wow nice bashing... how would u like it if i talked about arma in the pr forums saying how long it takes to set up missions and that u guys cant play worth a damn against other humans
                          This, is not acceptable here and I am certain that it is not acceptable in the PR forums. Its post in this nature that only spread the fuel to a fire that could potentially destroy both communities. If you think some one is "bashing" calmly explain your opinions and conduct yourselves in a mature fashion.

                          Both of these communities have great things to offer to each other. We can learn from each other and become stronger as a community and become better at the games we play. But that is only if you foster the attitude and mindset that is in keeping with TG tradition. Being mature, respectfull, and working together. The more you sit and think about how bad things could get, the worse they actaully do get. Imaginary lines have been drawn because of past experiences and rumor mills and it needs to stop here and now. This isn't PR, this isn't ArmA, this is Tactical Gamer. It is an entire network of people, games, and personalities. The sooner we all realize that the better. This isn't about PR coming to ArmA. This is about our community coming together in a new and unique way. This is about our friends that play PR teaching us how to think on the fly, while we teach them how to plan out a entire battle.

                          Stop drawing lines, start becoming a community. We are all friends here, we are all gamers. We come here for different reasons, but there is one that we all share. We love playing games in an environment that lets us feel safe from the immature and unfriendly. Help foster that environment, prove that you care about one another, that you care about keeping TG going strong. Prove to yourself that you can trust other gamers and build lasting friendships. Prove to yourself that you are above the squabbling and arguing and nit picking.

                          Rearden, dont ask to be proven wrong. Instead, challenge to be proven right about Tactical Gamer and its players. That we are the premier online community for mature gamers, and that no matter what game we play, or what group of people we play with, we can have fun and be mature and grow stronger as a community of gamers.

                          [unit][squadl][command2]

                          KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

                            OK, first thing is first............

                            Dredge, great post, +1 to you.

                            Next, after having had time to think this through, I will reopen this thread. I want to gauge opinion. However, I sincerely hope that Hanks attitude is not prevalent...........

                            Now, a few points.

                            You praise the admins, yet fail to realise for example, that most of your very own ArmA admins were brought to TG via PR. I was, as was Browna, Socom and many others, we have or continue to play it. Also a lot of our player-base at ArmA was brought here by PR. PR is a more accessible game, and sure people can move on to ArmA from it, but it is more of a refined taste, hence our, and your own strong defence of it. Why do we play PR? Simply put, because here at ArmA we severely lack in some of the things that they have an abundance of. But this goes both ways. Let me elaborate..........

                            Originally posted by Hank
                            .PR's community has been shaped by the battlefield experience... expectations of bad player behavior, lack of maturity, cliquey and judgemental players who aren't interested in newbies or helping bring people up to speed with change.
                            What community or game for that matter does NOT have issues with players being dumb, or immature? If we were in the habit of talking about bans etc (which we are not) then I could make you guys fall over with stories of stupid kicks, bans and other dumb behaviour. And much of this from our own regulars, our SM's and even IHS members. Many have moved on, some have stayed, nearly all are better players and community members because of it.

                            In ARMA I've witnessed interactions between human beings... in PR I've witnessed interactions between human beings constrained by a hugely flawed system of limited communication, traditions of bad behaviour and a level of paranoid suspicion from server and community administrators trying to sort the trash from the treasure. It's my personal opinion that on a very human level and from everything I have seen, PR has brought out the very worst in its players and its administrators at all levels, fuelled by the competitive nature of the game, the geopolitical rivalries inherent to the nations presented and ease of autocracy, cliques or special-interests inherent to BF2. In PR it goes well beyond 'in house squads'... there is a longstanding tradition of clique domination, especially on larger community servers. Coupling the supremacy of a few with the general 'competitive' game mindset which states that it is not possible to have fun unless somebody is not, is not very productive at all in terms of building a community. In fact I think with those conditions you'd normally expect to get little more than a massive mob of people who agree on little more than that they like dropping bombs on or shooting other people because it makes them feel good. Am I advocating 'PVE' or 'Carebear' content? Hell no. We have TVT ops here at TG:A2, but what we do have beyond that is interactions beyond the immediate pull of the trigger that adds a face, a name and a history of interactions to the person we just shot. We laugh about it afterwards, compliment each other on good manuevers or fires... and generally exhibit behavior demonstrating we're here for a good time, not just to get 'kills for thrills'.
                            Comms is something we at ArmA take very seriously, and rightly so. It can have a direct outcome on the game. Same goes for PRA (PR:ArmA) and PRBF2. If I had to choose one system? PRBF2 wins. Why? Because we have no confusing, beta systems to install, no versions to check. You install the game. You install mumble. They both work perfectly. End of story. I wish the same could be said of ArmA 2 in game voip, then I would HAPPILY boast that ours is better. But until the day comes we get a 100% working accurate IN GAME system then I am afraid you are very very wrong. As for the rest of your quote.......I get the feeling you are someone who has not really given the time to the TG PR community. Maybe you had a bad experience? Maybe not. However there is very much so a "history" over there, with a laughing fun side as well as an ultra competitive side.

                            The admins here do a great job of serving the needs of the community and unlike the PR moderators who style themselves as 'Riot Police' you guys remind me more of police working a late-night RIDE Check. Does it make you any less capable of acting in a real crisis or judging potentially 'illegal' activity? Not at all. But because you're not running on adrenaline and a power trip, you're a lot more qualified to make balanced, mundane decisions. This isn't about the forums though, it's about in-game. TG ARMA 2 moderators direct traffic (posting maps or changing them) enforce the speed limit (language, content or behavior rules) help re-route the public around hazardous obstacles (technical issues) and most importantly, show up for their day in court when you challenge a ticket (CAA Forums). PR's written policy (on forums and on most of the servers) is 'complaining gets you banned.'

                            Hank, the more I read the more this stinks of "them and us" and you as being someone who had a bad experience, perhaps got kicked or banned, or simply misunderstood the SM kick? Let me make one thing very clear. If I see any of this "them and us" or bull-crap superiority stuff on our server, I will not react kindly. And if you are a ArmA regular, someone who should be WELCOMING and EMBRACING the PR guys over here, then I will pull no punches. The PR admins do an OUTSTANDING job over there every day. Our admins do as well. What is the difference between us? Nothing, not one thing. They have recently had a new GO put in place who is carrying on the excellent job his predecessor left him, and long may that continue.

                            I'm talking about taking a community built on real, North American values and integrating it with something run at its core by good people but that resembles rather closely in its administration some of the less savoury parts of North Korea. I could spend hours posting my personal experiences, inviting others to do the same and getting flamed out by members of this community or defensive new posters (maybe even getting warned in the process)... but at the risk of sounding like I usually do (negative) is there any bright side that anybody can see to bringing in a new system that many players of ARMA 2 have either never tried or are refugees from?
                            This statement is, to be honest, the biggest pile of nonsense I have read in a long time. First it starts out as some wild "values" post that ends up saying they will bring nothing to the server. Let me tell you a little story that I organised one. When Doc Eyeball first released his "Devastation" mod, I tried HARD to get TG to pick it up. It was a struggle. Everyone wanted to play ACE and shoot bots. Personally I have grown bored of ACE and hate shooting bots. But I digress. So the ArmA players would not play. But the PR players who had all tried ArmA (and been turned away by the constant ACE updates and bugs and lack of VON) were keen. So I organised a match, 10 vs 10, PR vs ArmA. Guess what happened. The PR players won the match in under 10 minutes, capping the ArmA guys out. Why? Because they are more used to playing against humans, more aggressive, more cutthroat. It is no secret I am a PR tester for ArmA 2, and let me tell you, that same aggressiveness, clear thinking and pace will win now as well. Why? Because that is how it works in real life, and ArmA and PR were both built to be a sim. This little anecdote I have mentioned before on these forums. It is my way of saying, stop the crap pre-conceptions and other useless them vs us ideas, and embrace these guys, learn from them, and teach them what they need to know. They will be better for it, as will we.

                            I trust that ARMA 2 will still exist in its current incarnation, but I suspect that there will be a mass-migration of eager players from A2:ACE to A2:PR in the first few weeks, leaving the 'vanilla' servers empty. I also anticipate that people complaining they want to play ACE/Vanilla will receive a cut/pasted message about the ACE/Vanilla servers being open for business (bureaucracy, not democracy). Then maybe after the initial glow has worn off, people will start reaching each other through forum PMs, TS or 3rd party chat software to ask 'You want to play old school?' and then perhaps, a match or two will be thrown together for 'old times sake'.
                            Simply put, we are still discussing what way to set it up. But I can tell you one thing for sure. With the launch of ArmA 2 PR this server will not be running anything else, no mods, no cries of "add this" will be listened to. Why? Because PR does things its way, and I will support that. PR will be a strictly PR mod only deal.

                            That depends on how PR accomplishes its integration with ARMA2 -AND- on how Tactical Gamer actually treats a small and (I would suspect) relatively unprofitable portion of its donor community... especially since the prospect obviously exists of potentially lucrative long-term integration with the budding PR franchise.
                            Surely it depends on how WE integrate with THEM as well? And lucrative? PR is a free mod............

                            suspect we'll find out when it is announced whether SM status buys guaranteed server slot access to their PR servers somehow. But then again I'm still waiting for my quarterly donor report so we'll see.
                            I have said it before and will say it again. If we ever DO work out a system for giving SM's a reserved slot then yes, we will implement it. But that has never been the case.

                            Originally posted by Soupy
                            90% of the current player base HATE TvT with a passion as there not used to an enemy that can think, so theres another reason why the two community's wont mingle that much.
                            I find that embarassing as an ArmA player, don't you? Like I said, I hate shooting bots, and FAR prefer live prey. Hence why the PR ArmA 2 mod is so good......;) Surely we want to improve as a player base? And surely we want to be open and integrate, not some old stuffy part of this community that thinks we are above something else?

                            Paint, an excellent post Sir! +1

                            Originally posted by Xsoldier
                            Wow nice bashing... how would u like it if i talked about arma in the pr forums saying how long it takes to set up missions and that u guys cant play worth a damn against other humans
                            This is exactly what I DO NOT want to see. The impulsive stupid thoughts of one side provoking an equally stupid reaction in the other. We should ALL be working to make sure this is not the case. We should all be excited........Trust me!

                            So to sum up..........

                            I find this attitude stupid, and pathetic. Let me reiterate:

                            IF I SEE A STUPID THEM AND US VIBE EMERGING THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES.

                            And let me make something else clear, the same goes for the BF2PR players to, and I have that from their GO.

                            We are ONE community. Many players, including me, play many many games here. In fact I play no where else. Broaden your horizons. Embrace the changes. If not.....well life is tough so don't expect to be in for a smooth ride, because we ARE going to support PR, we already do, more that you know. TG has a very very long and established history of playing and working with PR and I will guarantee that will continue. PR will be here.........

                            Next, Hank, if that is truly your attitude, and the attitude of other, let me suggest a few things, as mere words will not change such a bigoted and ridiculous attitude.

                            1) Re-evaluate your place in a TG IHS. You are supposed to uphold the TG traditions. So why do the opposite here?
                            2) Perhaps re-evaluate your place in this community at all, if the rest of TG is so bad then why be here. Not once have we ever tried to foster a "Them and us" attitude so I am boggled trying to think where that has come from.

                            PR will happen. It will be a success. We have already invested a lot into it and will continue to do so. Ideally we will get a large influx of players, because I think ArmA and the TG community will benefit from it. This will not be some watered down version of PR, this will be the real deal, bring the best of TG and the best of 2 great games together. I expect you guys to uphold our end and do us proud. Yes there will be friendly rivalry initially, but at the end of the day I expect us to win the shoot-outs!;)

                            Thread open, use this as your opportunity to talk about PR, be open and honest, but again, I sincerely hope that this is not a prevalent attitude.
                            Last edited by Jeepo; 08-10-2010, 08:02 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: PR & You: A2:TG as it is, A2:TG as it will be.

                              I'll just refuse myself to join in the A2:PR server then.

                              Sapientiam Autem Non Vincit Malitia

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