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  • diffrence in gameplay

    Well like the title says, I really saw a difference the in the PvP weekend in tactics and really learned a lot from it.

    It was the first time that PvP was played extensively here at ArmaTG and I have to say, I found myself going to old FPS habits. I had a habit of running in straight lines and zorg rushing to the objective, or the point of last contact, or in point of fact, where I last died (I know not smart).

    And then something hit me. I wasn't playing a regular fps, I was playing a military sim against other HUMANS, and I had to act accordingly. I realized a very very very simply rule to live by when I start to play now, and will start to take this approach from now on any time that I am in a leadership role.

    TAKE A BREATH, AND TAKE MY TIME

    I think that I heard it on a Discovery channel or something on a program about the military SF, and I heard the saying over and over; Slow is fast, fast is dead. I realized that I did not have to rush back into cambate and sacrifice good cover or superior kill zone opportuities, or even just take the chance to defend. With the advent of this mass system shock video games where the goal is to spawn you as fast as you can and get you into this INSANE combat experience, is rubbing off on my tactics and others as well.

    I will indeed get into contact, that is just simple PvP dynamics, What I had to start doing is pounding into my head, is first and foremost, move with AT LEAST a buddy, and when you move, you can have an aggressive nature but still advanced with great pace when doing the proper procedure of just simple bound and cover! I also realized that if done properly, there are often many times that two squads that were working together could make enough noise on the frontal assault for a small team to flank and and successfully engage the opfor . For me I might not have killed people DIRECTLY, but by my doings (is that a word)....I was able to kill my enemy through my HUMAN buddies, as they say back on coms to be...'great job on the cover fire, they didnt expect it'.....humm smells like victory!

    To end, and any of you who actually read to the end, I will try and summarize in that whole rambling what I meant; Take a road less traveled, there is a thing called defense, and TG teamwork wins 95% of the time when everyone has the same frame of mind.

    I wouldnt mind discussing some good tactics that people had in their experience this weekend, or any they think they will take from games such as PR, or COD or even games in the genre of CIV V and bring them into the PvP scene here in Arma






    "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

  • #2
    Re: diffrence in gameplay

    It is this change in behavior that turns me away from PvP and gets me playing co-op. Seems as soon as people join a PvP game they are all rambo and try as hard as possible to get the most kills they can, despite also racking up the highest death count as well.
    For me even in PvP games I worry more about my death count. But I play different...

    Because of that i am often called a camper and so on, because I am not charging blindly to my virtual death.

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    • #3
      Re: diffrence in gameplay

      You will find a difference with ArmA PvP. If you are out running around you will be called a noob. ;) If you are posted up in a bush waiting to mow down a squad, you will be called a hero.

      [unit][squadl][command2]

      KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

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      • #4
        Re: diffrence in gameplay

        Jack, I had the EXACT same feelings when I joined up on Saturday. After a bit, I was mumbling to myself: "Great, now we're playing BF2 on the ARMA engine..." I definitely got frustrated a few times trying to make my guy move like I was playing a regular FPS. After awhile I realized what I was doing and had to, sometimes consciously, force myself back into ARMA-mode.

        Other than the fact the the AI cheats (*cough*concealment*cough*), it's definitely a lot harder playing against other people.


        "You have to go out, you don't have to come back."

        Dredgeisms: "NO! GoNooowwwBARRELROLL!" - "There WILL be NO desync!"

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        • #5
          Re: diffrence in gameplay

          I have written a few PR guide type articles that cover pvp tactics as it were, the use of realistic tactics, psychology etc. They are rough and PR centric but in view of the convergence of the titles and the broad application of some techniques they may be of some use.

          If anyone wants to read them I can post a couple, at the very least you can compare and contrast the games and make your own judgements as to what might be applicable. Plus you can have fun tearing them to bits.

          In a way, as an Arma noob, I would be very interested in updating them and educating myself in process.

          Let me know.


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          • #6
            Re: diffrence in gameplay

            I agree totally, you can actually use cover now in the form of bushes






            "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

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            • #7
              Re: diffrence in gameplay

              Originally posted by A.WICKENS View Post
              I have written a few PR guide type articles that cover pvp tactics as it were, the use of realistic tactics, psychology etc. They are rough and PR centric but in view of the convergence of the titles and the broad application of some techniques they may be of some use.

              If anyone wants to read them I can post a couple, at the very least you can compare and contrast the games and make your own judgements as to what might be applicable. Plus you can have fun tearing them to bits.

              In a way, as an Arma noob, I would be very interested in updating them and educating myself in process.

              Let me know.
              That sounds awesome!!! If you could do that, it would be great.






              "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

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              • #8
                Re: diffrence in gameplay

                Another thing to note is suppressing fire. Ive put in excess of 400 m249 rounds into technically nothing as my squad manouvers to get into an OBJ during TvT. Enemy is between 20 deg and 40 deg? Youve got 800 odd rounds of ammo, use it!
                Nihility

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                • #9
                  Re: diffrence in gameplay

                  Definitely Soupy, in fact I cover suppression in one of the guides. One of the problems with BF2:PR is that some realistic tactic are occasionally trumped by gaming the game, near exploits of the game engine, hence people lose faith in the realistic approach, though many TG PR players still persist with the realism approach.

                  Thankfully, from what I have seen so far I am finally playing a game that rewards, nay requires a truly realistic approach.


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                  • #10
                    Re: diffrence in gameplay

                    The phrase is "slow is smooth and smooth is fast" as I know it by the way.


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                    • #11
                      Re: diffrence in gameplay

                      see that is what I was think as well Wick's..Arma you have to play right or you wont survive






                      "TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: diffrence in gameplay

                        Originally posted by Jack Bauer View Post
                        I agree totally, you can actually use cover now in the form of bushes
                        *Que Sean Connery accent*
                        Surely, you mean concealment ole boy...

                        TGU Instructor TG Pathfinder

                        Former TGU Dean Former ARMA Admin Former Irregulars Officer

                        "Do not seek death. Death will find you. But seek the road which makes death a fulfillment." - Dag Hammarskjold

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                        • #13
                          Re: diffrence in gameplay

                          I really enjoyed the few hours I got on Alpha this weekend, but I'm glad someone else has pointed out the shortcomings of the ArmA2 engine when one attempts to play in the same way one might approach CS:S. Even on high difficulty settings, the bumbling AI helps you forget the clunkiness of the ArmA2 animations/movement model. However, against human opponents this clunkiness is cruelly exposed: the half-second delay of bringing up your irons or moving through a doorway can easily cost you a life when confronted by a stationary enemy.

                          Personally, I don't see this as a shortcoming; rather, I see it as the game's way of enforcing the maxim that exposed movement without fire is disastrous. Where I struggle is with the way trickle-respawn and flag-capture calculations so frequently encourage (even force) players to act alone. The 'rambo' effect may exist, but I think a more charitable explanation is that - particulatly in an AAR game - if you know the other side is racing to occupy an objective, you feel under tremendous pressure to get there as quickly as possible, which effectively rules out waiting to reform as a fireteam or larger element.

                          By co-incidence, on Sunday folk and MARSOC held a joint session to play a series of non-respawn TvT missions. Without wanting to get into the (I think silly) argument about respawn vs. non-respawn, I noted that gameplay was much more conservative, with players anxious to work together and even willing to disengage from firefights when the conditions turned. The question for me is how can respawn modes might be tweaked to re-introduce some of the genuine fear of game-death and requirement for numbers-acting-in-concert.

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                          • #14
                            Re: diffrence in gameplay

                            I would go for a 3 minute wait before a wave of repawns are allowed. I would like even longer except that I also think there should be a minimum wait of 1.5 mins. So if it was only a minute left before the next group could repawn you would be waiting 1min+3min. That would be longer than a relief break, cup of coffee, find that bag of chips....just so it's truly a pain to get wasted.

                            But then, I got wasted so often in the half hour I played TvT this weekend I finally gave up. I can't see a 1/4 of what everone else can seem to spot in this game yet. I'll get ya's back one day. :)
                            |TG-189th| Unkl
                            ArmA 3 Game Officer
                            Dean of Tactical Gamer University
                            189th Infantry Brigade Member
                            SUBMIT A RIBBON NOMINATION OR CONTACT AN ARMA ADMIN
                            "We quickly advance in the opposite direction and take cover in a house on the SW side of town." - BadStache

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