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Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

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  • Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    I want to open this up to discussion with hopes that it doesn't turn into a flame war, but I am a little bit skeptic on the recoil in this game and how much your aim jumps around when your walking.

    I personally think that your walking, specially with the aim dot, the sights jump around like your walking through a earth quake and that when your either in a kneel or standing up and firing that the recoil seems a little much.

    Can someone debunk this idea of mine or am i not alone.
    FORMER 22ND RRR/FORMER 1ST JTOC/ ALWAYS A TACTICALGAMER


    Spartan 4


  • #2
    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

    Now I have never shot a real gun aimpoint or not, but I can safely say that the amount the sight moves while waking is a bit much. In reality it's decently possible to keep the dot on a target till at least 100' while still moving at a decent pace (and the military guys can jump in here, my experience is quite distinct from using rifles at that range).

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    • #3
      Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

      No, the recoil isn't realistic. Nor is the aiming (depth of field of view with blurred rear sight post and target, focus on the front sight post. and the absence of parallax-corrected red dots).

      I'd say that this in general is because of that the view/weapon in first person view isn't separate from the soldier model, which makes it very hard to animate it properly.

      Sometimes I actually even long back to the simple crosshair of the old Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon games, because the abstract representation of sights makes it so that the actual bullet dispersion can be controlled completely to simulate real shooting. The barely existant dispersion in ArmA, with bullets going where the weapon points, is A LOT harder to make properly, since the animation system for the weapon's movements has to be very complex for a real representation.



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      • #4
        Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

        The shakiness is imho very accurate for the speed of movement in A2. The speeds you achieve ingame while aiming through the sights are blazing fast. When we practised it we never did it beyond 25 meters and the walking speeds were much much slower. Hitting a man-sized target isn't a problem from that distance in range conditions, but even then I'd rather shoot from standing still rather than walking.

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        • #5
          Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

          I understand that thier are limitations to a simulation in that you can't really offer much interms of controlling one's movement speed, but you can't give a walking speed that makes it impossible to fire while moving and expect to hit anything. Don't get me started on the walking animation for the pistol but it's absolutely embarrassing that this was the best the developers could come up with.

          Can we as editors fix the recoil system?
          FORMER 22ND RRR/FORMER 1ST JTOC/ ALWAYS A TACTICALGAMER


          Spartan 4

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          • #6
            Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

            Recoil or weapon movement while walking, which is the one you're having issues with? Two different things.

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            • #7
              Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

              Well they are both items i am having issues with hence why I started this thread talking about both of them.

              I know the thread is a little miss leading but I think both items should be addressed.
              FORMER 22ND RRR/FORMER 1ST JTOC/ ALWAYS A TACTICALGAMER


              Spartan 4

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              • #8
                Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

                I've only shot AK-series weapons in real life, and at least their recoil is too mild in every stance in the game. Furthermore the barrel doesn't climb nearly as much as it should when firing on full auto, and you also re-aquire the sight-picture too quickly. For short-range shooting this is fine as you wouldn't use sights anyway but shoot down the barrel(I was trained on ironsights only, no Aimpoints at the time), something which is impossible to do properly ingame because you lack the feeling. It does however make longer-range shooting too easy.

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                • #9
                  Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

                  Well, the recoil animations can be fixed within the limits of the engine. I.e. we can adjust how much the muzzle is directed up/down and sideways, how much it recoils backwards (?) and with what speed it happens, as well as how much the weapon returns by muscle-memory.

                  I don't know the exact details, if one can make more than the above, but I wouldn't consider it very likely. So we can pretty much only alter with what force the weapons behave like they do, rather than completely change the behaviour.


                  I'd also not mind the walking animations with raised weapon to be cut down by 30%-40% or so, and slightly reduce the weapon sway, but just slightly.



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                  • #10
                    Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

                    Originally posted by Inkompetent View Post
                    Well, the recoil animations can be fixed within the limits of the engine. I.e. we can adjust how much the muzzle is directed up/down and sideways, how much it recoils backwards (?) and with what speed it happens, as well as how much the weapon returns by muscle-memory.
                    That sounds about right, but reading the one thread on BIS forums that discusses this issue it didn't seem to be easy an easy job. I mean adjusting the parameters themselves is pretty easy, but getting a good result is harder.

                    edit: Here's the thread I'm talking about
                    http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=89724

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                    • #11
                      Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

                      Something else that was fixed in the original ACE mod.

                      They made it so that the walking animation made the weapon jump around a whole lot less (and with the additional 'slow walk/ironsight up+walk I imagine it will be even more stable at the cost of some speed) which made it more useful to CQB but still made it impossible to snipe with.

                      Also, in ArmA and ArmA2 the weapon jumps and immediately drops back to where you were pointing it unless it's a machinegun. ACE fixed this as well, with the lower caliber rifles jumping and perhaps coming down a bit but still forced you to compensate by yourself, and made larger caliber rifles kick a whole lot more. It just makes everything seem a bit more like Red Orchestra which got it right IMO (I always hated firing a weapon in a game and feeling like I'm just shooting a little toy gun with no recoil)

                      As for the parallax sights, as a big fan of eotech/aimpoints over ironsights yes it does make it better (thought it's not 100% necessary I suppose) and ACE had that. (this would even solve that dumb kneeling+aimpoint sway bug =P) I seriously hope that the fix the M14 model though. I loved that rifle but I didn't like how the paralax eotech crosshairs were permanently plastered on my screen like some kind of hack.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

                        Well the firing animation isn't a problem but it's the sway as you mentioned. I understand the AK should have a heck of a sway because of the 7.62 round, but I guess my biggest problem is firing on the move because the sights jump around like made. Shouldn't it be more steady?
                        FORMER 22ND RRR/FORMER 1ST JTOC/ ALWAYS A TACTICALGAMER


                        Spartan 4

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                        • #13
                          Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

                          That's why they removed the parallax-compensation from all but the M14 in the end, Ozy. Simply because no matter the solution to achieve the wanted result, there was some kind of really messed up bug.


                          And indeed I agree that the weapon sway when moving should be reduced. But preferably the movement speed too, since otherwise it'd sort'a be like cheating to get only the good side of something without compensating with the speed ^^



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                          • #14
                            Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

                            Correct me if i am wrong, but wasn't the walking speed reduced in ACE 1?
                            FORMER 22ND RRR/FORMER 1ST JTOC/ ALWAYS A TACTICALGAMER


                            Spartan 4

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                            • #15
                              Re: Recoil Realistic... Yes or No

                              Yes, I'm quite sure it was.

                              Just saying that if we decide to change animations on our own there's more to take care of than just reducing shoulder movement ^^



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