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  • Poppy

    Or is it poopy? lol

    First, let me say thanks to Ghost (?) for making this. Then, I'm sorry if you're the one that came out with the latest mission.

    The version where the spawn time was reduced, but still existent, and there were no armed vehicles was the best.

    The newest version with an armed BH, an armed LB and anti-air vehicle, NO RESPAWN is just...not good, no fun.

    Why would you put in a HUGE AA gun that may be used on ground units? In a game where chaos is almost built in? We can barely get a game going where there isn't rampant killing and chaos; why include a big arse cannon? and why included it at all?

    And the no re-spawn....that's just silly. This isn't the game type for no-respwns.

    What's fun is trying to maintain hold of a city as a faction. A bit like Team King of the Hill.


    I think people love this type of gameplay. As I said, the version before last was almost perfect, if not perfect.

    Keep it simple - 3 factions, simple guns, no big arse cannons or armed flying tanks. 2-3 minute respawn times.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Romaniac; 12-16-2009, 05:25 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Poppy

    sorry i was the one who found the AAA gun and decied to use it and
    to try to organise the civilians into a defense force who held
    thier own.

    but yeah i agree AAA should be taken out or maybe just destroy its wheels so its
    static not moblile. but sorry next time i wont start using the AAA.
    To talk to me or just hurl Abuse my way get me on Xfire:Hashass1n






    I can't read, can't write, can't be an officer -NCO of the Vistula Uhlans Jan Pawlikowski

    Mute since the universe began

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Poppy

      For sure, great mission, really loved it and I hope to see it more times on TG's servers.



      And please, roll it on Alpha, because yesterday, at bravo, there were many players from everywhere, and a few were not in TG's gameplay style.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Poppy

        New version up with requests called Bronze Falcon.
        |TG|Ghost02
        TG Pathfinder



        "I travel alone through the valley of the shadow of death, yet in my heart I carry no fear, for Gods hands will guide me to Truth and Honor."

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Poppy

          I haven't played the latest incarnation, but I was going to post thus up earlier. I suppose this will become the official Operation Poppy discussion thread, so here goes.

          Ghost, I love your mission... but think it needs some refinement. On the first play through when you released v1, I immediately grasped the 'inherent' roleplay element of being a civilian. I loved being able to play sides off each other, and get things accomplished. I got about 10 people killed before even having to pick up a gun, and that only served to get me friendly fired by one of my own 'pawns'. I have a suggestion about team organization and game play effects that I hope you will listen to. This might be a little divergent from what you originally intended, but if you take it into consideration, it could have an overwhelmingly positive effect for Operation Poppy. Freedom of choice causes complex results, it's chaos theory. The reason for the devolution to anarchy is the lack of common purpose balanced against the desire of every player to be the protagonist in their Operation Poppy Narrative. I have some suggestions to fix that and, while not even close to foolproof against preventing anarchy, gives the Anarchy some context and structure.

          The Plan:

          Civilian team consists of 4 squads, led by Brown Suit, Black Suit, Policeman, Policeman. Each 'Suit' led squad is a 'crime family' while each 'Police' led squad represents local Militia. Have them start in two separate compounds, hidden from each other on the map.

          Crime Families have Luxury sedans and Urals, Arm them -lightly- SKS or Skorpion + 2 mags.

          Police have Police Cars, Pistols and Hunting Rifles + 2 mags.

          No access to rearmament from the drug caches or otherwise. The civilian members of the teams will be incognito, assorted (even random) civilian male models with no visible affiliation.

          Enforce gameplay on Veteran mode to remove HUD indicators for teammates and make Crime Lords/Police visible only to subordinates and not in reverse.

          Remove the ability for civilians to see each others position on the map. (This is an ACE2 Feature, I believe.)

          Team Structure:

          Crime Families (optimally)work with OPFOR to defend the drug Caches.

          Police (optimally)work with Blufor to discover the Cache Locations and preserve law and order.

          Now, OPFOR and BLUFOR need some restructuring as well:

          Give BLUFOR HMMWV's or Strykers for urban operations, M2/SLAT/M240 only (no Mk. 19's, TOWs or Avengers). Give BLUFOR a large quantity of Anti-Aircraft Weaponry. Stinger Crates and a healthy stockpile of missiles. This will be their bargaining chip.

          OPFOR is airborne, mounted in HIP's and therefore highly mobile, able to respond to defend the Caches. Give OPFOR RPG crates with a healthy stockpile of PG rounds. This will be their bargaining chip.

          Widen the Play Area:

          Disperse the Caches to eliminate the predictable environments and space out all bases/start points accordingly. Place them far enough apart that OPFOR must work in conjunction with crime families to defend multiple sites. Place the police compound in a location that will enable them to cover a wide area while still have adequate defenses (maybe in a major urban center).

          Give OPFOR an airbase and BLUFOR a HESCO'd FOB.

          Causality:

          The incentive here is that Police and Civilian Criminals are encouraged but not required to adhere to their roles. Criminals may in fact opt to win all the drugs for themselves or the police to resist American 'Imperialism.' Choosing to side with the OPFOR would net RPGs, useful for defending Caches against BLUFOR ground advances. Choosing to side with BLUFOR would net CIA supplied Stinger Missiles, necessary to limit OPFOR's mobility. Police and Criminals will be able to: Communicate via Side (arranging meetings, discussing options, negotiating trades of munitions etc.)

          Respawn Time:

          5 mins. Three Lives. Enough of a penalty to force realistic gameplay through reinforced consequences, not enough of a penalty to make the game impossible to play. Have important and critical assets like helicopters, strykers, HMMWV's etc. respawn on a 10 minute timer, twice.

          Win Conditions:

          1) BLUFOR Victory - All OPFOR Dead/All Caches Destroyed
          2) OPFOR Victory - All BLUFOR Dead/Timer (2hrs) Expired w/Caches Remaining
          3) Civilian Victory - 50% BLUFOR Dead/50% OPFOR Dead

          Ergo, Civilian Victory would require working with both sides to acquire necessary means to defeat opposing forces or a concerted effort to work as a single, cohesive civilian force for the purposes of revolutionary liberation from foreign influence.

          OPFOR Victory would rely on supplying Criminals/Converted police with RPGs and using them as proxy against BLUFOR.

          BLUFOR Victory would rely on supplying Criminals/Converted police with AA and using them as proxy against OPFOR.

          Final Suggestion:

          Add passive ambient civilians (male and female) to the focal cities and create penalties (loss of lives, equipment or some other effect) for BLUFOR and OPFOR if non-belligerent AI civilians are killed.

          Question:

          Is it possible to use map keys, evidence or some other object to represent a 'spike strip' which would destroy the tires of any vehicle passing over it? This would give the police an effective capacity to stop civilian vehicles that do not comply at checkpoints/roadblocks. Also, use the same script as deployable trenches to give us deployable road-barriers (editor object).


          If the leader is filled with high ambition and if he pursues his aims with audacity and strength of will, he will reach them in spite of all obstacles.
          -Carl Von Clausewitz



          'The Great Game' -Blog on War in Afghanistan:

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Poppy

            This is what happened briefly when we tried to be our own convetinal force and keep everyone out

            Exadus attempted to lead us to revolution in his 'south zagorian commune'(something like that) but one civve decided to tell opfor and the broke up our mass protest with grenade launchers and we fought back with our stolen SKS.and then the few survivours had to avoid the remaining opfor sweeping through are barricade and after that the commune failed and we went back to raiding bluefor base for M107 :).
            To talk to me or just hurl Abuse my way get me on Xfire:Hashass1n






            I can't read, can't write, can't be an officer -NCO of the Vistula Uhlans Jan Pawlikowski

            Mute since the universe began

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Poppy

              Readen's suggestion sounds good. We would need to see how it plays out in-game. Also if the "concealment" script can be repaired, that would also be a good addition.

              Definitely a fun mission.
              When deeds speak, words are nothing.
              Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Poppy

                Changing locations is good. Spreading caches is good as well, but not too far. We don't want to drive and drive to find one another.

                I like the win lose conditions.

                Again though, I think NO armored vehicles or heavy weaponry, period. Not even big sniper rifles. All these can just be way overpowering. Keep it simple! People will find plenty of ways to make chaos, even with the small weapons.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Poppy

                  Actually, having a SLAT APC sounds like the best addition I can think of to current gameplay. BLUFOR would have a noticable arms advantage, and they'd only have to be worried about civies packing RPGs. A foot-patrol gets a lot more paranoid about other people around than a mechanized infantry advance.

                  All in all, I think Rearden bears good -- no, great -- ideas. Ghost, if you don't do it, I sure will! :D

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Poppy

                    Originally posted by Hashassin View Post
                    This is what happened briefly when we tried to be our own convetinal force and keep everyone out

                    Exadus attempted to lead us to revolution in his 'south zagorian commune'(something like that) but one civve decided to tell opfor and the broke up our mass protest with grenade launchers and we fought back with our stolen SKS.and then the few survivours had to avoid the remaining opfor sweeping through are barricade and after that the commune failed and we went back to raiding bluefor base for M107 :).
                    The South Zagorian People's Democratic Commune (That goes by Anarcho-Syndicalist principals). :D

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Poppy

                      Played yesterday as civilian and I must say it was very fun! :).

                      Civilians started to fight with eachother to get better weapons I guess :D. So I always traveled fast by car in order to not get attacked. Anarchy.

                      I managed to barricade myself in red 4 floor building using some pickups and was sitting in the room on top floor. Anyone acting suspicious was getting shot.

                      Ghost, great job on the mission :].

                      It would be helpful to give civilians easy access to some weapons, at least pistols.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Poppy

                        Originally posted by Mikee View Post
                        Played yesterday as civilian and I must say it was very fun! :).

                        Civilians started to fight with eachother to get better weapons I guess :D. So I always traveled fast by car in order to not get attacked. Anarchy.

                        I managed to barricade myself in red 4 floor building using some pickups and was sitting in the room on top floor. Anyone acting suspicious was getting shot.

                        Ghost, great job on the mission :].

                        It would be helpful to give civilians easy access to some weapons, at least pistols.
                        No, anybody was getting shot. I joined, walked 50 feet, found a rifle and then promptly got grenaded. I mean if you were being tactical or using teamplay, I'm sorry. Looked to me like you were taking cheap-shots at other civilians' backs without reason from a 4th story window. You prove exactly the point though, you're a self-admitted/identified team killer who vastly preferred camping like a hippie on MW2 and your invincible army of one+6GPL HE.

                        I won't be playing this map until critical repairs are made to make it playable as something other than an outright deathmatch.


                        If the leader is filled with high ambition and if he pursues his aims with audacity and strength of will, he will reach them in spite of all obstacles.
                        -Carl Von Clausewitz



                        'The Great Game' -Blog on War in Afghanistan:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Poppy

                          I think we should also add, for the civilians, a few medic: Berenzino has an hospital, and as such it would be nice to have a few civilians medic.
                          This also add the fact that the medics decide who gets healed and who doesn't, making them potentially more powerful than the criminals (ok, maybe not) :D
                          sigpic

                          Now with 200% more content!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Poppy

                            Originally posted by Hank Rearden View Post
                            No, anybody was getting shot. I joined, walked 50 feet, found a rifle and then promptly got grenaded. I mean if you were being tactical or using teamplay, I'm sorry. Looked to me like you were taking cheap-shots at other civilians' backs without reason from a 4th story window.

                            I won't be playing this map until critical repairs are made to make it playable as something other than an outright deathmatch.
                            I think you should calm down.

                            Most of people playing civilians didn't want to cooperate. I got attacked at least dozen of times for no reason. Finally, I said its enough and barricaded myself in the building, because I didn't knew who is friendly and whos foe.

                            You prove exactly the point though, you're a self-admitted/identified team killer who vastly preferred camping like a hippie on MW2 and your invincible army of one+6GPL HE.
                            I didn't trust anybody with a weapon pulled out, because some of the civilians were shooting at me for no reason.

                            I think the idea of mission for civilians is to get into smaller groups, just like a bandits and raid Opfor/Blufor/cooperate with them/or just survive.

                            There no such thing as civilian team killing in this mission, because everyone wants to play different role. Some people will be fighting Opfor/blufor or just raid others for weapons.
                            Last edited by Mikee; 12-17-2009, 11:31 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Poppy

                              It really depends on the willingness of civilian to act like civilians/militias. The only time I played, there was chaos, but the players I encountered played their role, which made that part of the mission fun. 6-7 Opfor sided civilians had invested a warehouse and were detaining me and another unarmed civilian. While they were busy executing him, I managed to escape to hide on a roof.

                              That's the kind of gameplay I would expect from playing civilian on this mission. (Instead of a pure deathmatch)
                              When deeds speak, words are nothing.
                              Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

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