Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

    First off, thanks to the CO's, for their time spent creating plans, dealing with me, and for their patience during the event. Thanks Shafik and Ming!

    Alright, I personally learned some things, and I would love any constructive comments on today. Here is what I have.

    1)Limit the number of maps. If things go fast, force rematches. It's better to play any map again, organized, than a new map under such conditions. (I tried to force too much into this one session. Sorry) One thing that will fix this are TvT maps/modes that are in development right now. Still not a lot of options out there in the community. Thanks to Shacktac for their mission contribution.

    2)No matter people's computer problems/etc, start the game. We had a ton of people with computer problems, and I shouldn't have tried to wait for everyone. Next time, I'll have a set organizational time window, and then we go!

    Those are my two big ones. Please post anything you think might help our weekly events, so we can continue to develop this into a solid, teamwork-filled, and organized event that you can count on every Sunday!

  • #2
    Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

    Thanks Boudreux for organizing everything and thanks to all of the COs for leading the missions. I enjoyed the insurgents mission. It leaves room for some creative thinking on the US side. Id like to play it again from the insurgents side. It did take awhile between missions but the game play was good. I would have to agree to start the mission once everyone is in. Im interested to see what the TG programmers have in store for us as far as new T-v-T missions.
    |TG| Yanu - Bad handwriting since the 8th grade.


    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

      As one of those folks suffering from technological madness today...I agree. Start no matter what! Though today I didn't feel anyone held anything up for me (I hope not at least)...I would definitely not WANT anything to be held up for something like that.

      Now, I'm not making a comparison between the two (ArmA is naturally superior. :) )...but one of the things I enjoyed most about PRM scrims was the weeks prior to the event which usually involved a study of maps and planning. I was discussing this earlier...and really, if teams had even just one week of map knowledge prior to the actual event and also given space on TacticalConflict...we could do amazing things here. Just listening on TS (which is all I could do as I beat my head against my computer) things just felt...whimsical. 24 hours is too little time for any planning on that scale. My suggestion would be this:

      Know the next events map by the time we're playing the present event. Meaning, if you stay a week ahead of the events with the map selections, then every week at the end of an event the map can be announced and planning can begin.

      That's about it really. I've still yet to actually partake in one of these, hopefully I'll have all my bugs sorted out the next time I attempt one of these events. But from what I hear, this is probably one of the biggest issues I see.
      | | |

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

        I thought things went pretty well overall. The only negative thing I can comment on is that things could have gone a little quicker. There were many people who either werent paying attention or went AFK for whatever reason forcing leaders to have to repeat themselves several (5+) times when they were finally ready to listen. All the while everyone who had been paying attention is waiting for the game to start.

        Not a huge issue, and this is our first TvT. I'm sure things will smooth out the more we play and get use to this type of gameplay.

        Great fun and I hope we make every Sunday a TvT mission :D
        TG Regular
        TGU Staff
        ShackTac FNG





        TGU Rotary Wing Instructors
        Evil Koala
        LeftSkidLow

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

          My impressions from the event are as follows.

          1. Despite some apparent pre-session planning, the insurgent plan in general both times we played could have used some improvement. There are some obvious reasons for this (first TvT session being the prime one). Let me give a bit of constructive criticism here:
          a. Splitting the insurgent team into "cells" with such a low playercount was unnecessary and over-organized. It slowed comms and compartmenatlized things dangerously. Situational awareness was adversely affected by this and I believe it contributed towards some combat ineffectiveness.

          b. Plans need to be communicated to the team better. This was a problem because of the issues cited in (a). I did not have a good impression of what was happening in our first runthrough and as far as I could tell we did not utilize our M2 4x4s or our carbombs effectively. Additionally, the infantry assault appeared to be scattered and haphazardly coordinated.

          c. Utilize the assets available to you in the mission. If you know your AKs are going to have reduced accuracy, the M2 4x4s obviously become a very valuable asset and should be utilized as a base-of-fire to maneuver under. The fact that on the second runthrough the insurgents didn't plan to use the carbombs at all was completely baffling. I am glad that we had somebody carbomb the hotel after I suggested it, but had I not said anything, and had that guy not been in the carbomb for whatever reason, it may have turned into a total loss of a mission.

          d. The US forces really seemed to spread themselves thin in the first mission. The second mission, they did the exact opposite. Hopefully lessons learned from that will allow them to find a middle ground next time. :)


          2. Many players are obviously not used to TvT and have been weaned on Evo and other missions where you have enormous quantities of assets, both vehicular and armory-wise, and no real fear of death due to respawns. There were a few comments about weapon selection, having optics, tanks, etc, that made this quite clear. No suggestion here, just an observation. It makes me wary about doing joint ops, to be perfectly honest, because I believe that there is a distinct subset of TG currently that may fail to adapt to this style of adversarial play. As a continuation of that, I hope that everyone who plays these TvT sessions in the future understands that not liking the ShackTac missions (Insurgent Assault, Isla del Vassal) is a very good indication that you will not enjoy playing with us in a joint session. If you prefer Evo or respawn-based TvT, that's fine, but bear in mind that is not how we play, and that's not how a joint session will be played, and if you have an issue with that you will be better off not attending.

          Based on what I saw from the two ST missions, I think I may have a mission or two you guys would potentially enjoy for the next event.

          I hope that TG is able to guide its playerbase more towards this style of adversarial play in the future. I hope that this was the first step towards that, and that it was somewhat successful. It would be nice to have a sister group that plays in a similar fashion to us, and the joint stuff that could result from that would be a lot of fun.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

            Originally posted by Evil Koala View Post
            Great fun and I hope we make every Sunday a TvT mission :D
            Originally posted by Dslyecxi View Post
            I hope that TG is able to guide its playerbase more towards this style of adversarial play in the future. I hope that this was the first step towards that, and that it was somewhat successful. It would be nice to have a sister group that plays in a similar fashion to us, and the joint stuff that could result from that would be a lot of fun.
            Yeah, this would be ideal. As much fun as the co-op missions are, TvT adds a level of fun to the game, primarily through the extra complexity when it comes to strategy.

            Originally posted by Atomic Dog View Post
            one of the things I enjoyed most about PRM scrims was the weeks prior to the event which usually involved a study of maps and planning.
            Familiarization with the terrain would be nice, although we are given an incredibly useful map. To be honest, though, the creation of plans in the short period of time before the battle begins really appeals to me, probably because I have the most fun making plans in short periods of time in the games I *can* lead in. I'm in no way qualified to take any sort of leadership position in Armed Assault at this point, but the challenge of creating plans on the fly (and the flexibility that gives you in adaptation during battle) is much more appealing to me.
            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
            I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
            Feel free to quote me. ~

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

              We need a system!!!!
              Monday: A new stickied topic (Sunday Teams) is made showing the maps for next sunday and the ratio of people required in each map, the first post should be made by a regular user, so that people can post underneath to choose what team they want to be for each map (admins have the right to switch peoples teams to even the ratios)
              Tuesday: A map briefing is posted so every player knows what the map is like and doesnt have to go into the new map and suddenly adapt to a totaly different map style than they were expecting
              Wednesday: Overall commanders are chosen for each team and is posted at the very top of the stickied sunday teams topic
              Thursday: Time for commanders to think up a plan
              Friday: Plans must be posted in seperate topics (relying on team honours not to look at the other persons plan)
              Saturday: Quick discussion of plan
              Sunday: MAKE WAR!!!!
              Before you judge a man, try walking a mile in their shoes first. That way your a mile away and you have their shoes.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

                First off thanks to all who did the FIX UP & organising.
                Boudreux your sum up seems to have got some good improver points.

                My thoughts ......
                Suggest that the battle field [map] be known prior to the match night so that terrain familarisation can take place prior to engagement.
                That I thought was a problem last night it removed the comfort zone and compounded with the other organisational difficulties.

                It would be good to change sides in conflicts like the first map but I'm just not sure how you would do it as it was a 2-v-1 ratio unless we went 3 times???

                I personally feel more at home with uniformed forces going head to head, not to keen on the insurgent mob.
                I like the T-v-T it gave you a different feel on the same battle ground because of the human input. It freshened up the map.


                Thanks for setting it up guys, looking forward to the next battle ground.
                "I like a man who grins when he fights"
                Sir Winston Churchill


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

                  Originally posted by Dslyecxi View Post
                  My impressions from the event are as follows.

                  1. Despite some apparent pre-session planning, the insurgent plan in general both times we played could have used some improvement. There are some obvious reasons for this (first TvT session being the prime one). Let me give a bit of constructive criticism here:[INDENT]a. Splitting the insurgent team into "cells" with such a low playercount was unnecessary and over-organized. It slowed comms and compartmenatlized things dangerously. Situational awareness was adversely affected by this and I believe it contributed towards some combat ineffectiveness.

                  b. Plans need to be communicated to the team better. This was a problem because of the issues cited in (a). I did not have a good impression of what was happening in our first runthrough and as far as I could tell we did not utilize our M2 4x4s or our carbombs effectively. Additionally, the infantry assault appeared to be scattered and haphazardly coordinated.
                  a. I thought that one 6 man unit, one eight man unit and one command unit containing latecomers wasn't bad, and ensured that channel chat was kept relevant to what the person was doing. All intel acquired from the command unit was passed on to the assault unit. How would you have organised it?

                  b. Yeah, that's fair enough, but was localised to the third cell I think. The main issue that arose is that while, at the start, I was issuing orders to the third cell over command net so the other cells knew about them - but I think Angel thought that because I was in the channel, I would actually be leading third cell. Therefore not all the orders put out over command net made it to the third cell.

                  Which assault? The one on Chantico or on the resort? If it's the resort...well, I don't know what happened with that one. Once it was reported that the enemy had fortified the resort, I told cells 1 and 2 on command net to stop at the petrol station and then attack the resort to their north. They stopped...but didn't dismount. And I watched in horror as the 50 cal and two civvie vehicles charged the enemy positions. One civvie vehicle and the 50 cal were destroyed, the other vehicle made it through and proceeded to secure the resort area.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

                    On the second round of Insurgent Assault, the US side was all ready to go! We were now comfortable with the map, with our team, and our CO Shafik gave us all clearly-defined missions and positions. Our entire team go to the resort in Chantico in plenty of time, and fortified the crap out of the place. SAW's watching angles, AT watching the road, rooftop shooters in place, doors covered, and the VIP (me) hiding in the center of the building, laying down in the brick ladder room on the 4th floor. First few minutes of the assault, we're feeling good. SAW's take out quite a few guys, we start pulling back further into the building. Preparing to fight it to the death! Next thing we know, BOOM, mission over. "What the heck?" Then we all just kinda chuckle, and realize that each one of us forgot that buildings can only take so much damage, and then they crumble. Several car bombs and continuous .50cal gunfire tend to have that effect on most buildings :)

                    All in all, I enjoyed the gameplay, teamwork, and enthuisiasm present during the rounds. LOVED the atmosphere of Insurgent Assault, and I look forward to more matches against TGers!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

                      A couple more points after reading a bit deeper.........
                      From Dslyecxi
                      You wrote 2.] Many players are obviously not used to TvT and have been weaned on Evo and other missions where you have enormous quantities of assets, both vehicular and armory-wise, and no real fear of death due to respawns. There were a few comments about weapon selection, having optics, tanks, etc, that made this quite clear. No suggestion here, just an observation. It makes me wary about doing joint ops, to be perfectly honest, because I believe that there is a distinct subset of TG currently that may fail to adapt to this style of adversarial play. As a continuation of that, I hope that everyone who plays these TvT sessions in the future understands that not liking the ShackTac missions (Insurgent Assault, Isla del Vassal) is a very good indication that you will not enjoy playing with us in a joint session. If you prefer Evo or respawn-based TvT, that's fine, but bear in mind that is not how we play, and that's not how a joint session will be played, and if you have an issue with that you will be better off not attending.

                      Based on what I saw from the two ST missions, I think I may have a mission or two you guys would potentially enjoy for the next event.

                      I hope that TG is able to guide its playerbase more towards this style of adversarial play in the future. I hope that this was the first step towards that, and that it was somewhat successful. It would be nice to have a sister group that plays in a similar fashion to us, and the joint stuff that could result from that would be a lot of fun.
                      .....

                      I think you are making judgements based on minimal info, you say your just making observations but then go on to draw conclusions.
                      I heard some questions about weapon availability but just took it as just that, what was available to both sides. Most of us had not engaged on this map before.
                      I note you also say for the future you hope that TG will adapt more to Shak T-v-T style.

                      As far as I see and being a regular TG server trooper, most do prefer very low or no respawn.

                      I expect the next time with some of the other suggestions made above in place things will go swimingly.

                      You say you were baffled by the planned no use of car bombs. If you were in TS at that time you should recall we had seconds to change over our CO and arrange an attack plan. The main improvement made from the first attack was to be a 2 pronged speedy attack led by the M2's at the SW instructed to fire and harry anything they saw while the infantry footslogged it in from the NE. Orders are what orders be so we followed them and reacted to at the front amendment orders as they came.
                      It's a tough job commanding.
                      Respect to those doing it, keep it up guys, we can all learn from debriefs and hindsight.

                      Pleased to see in your last para that we can all agree well................ nearly all, SISTERS WE AIN'T BROTHERS IN ARMS MAYBE.

                      Thanks for your considered reporting Dslyecxi

                      Barnaby out
                      Last edited by Barnaby; 08-06-2007, 09:37 AM.
                      "I like a man who grins when he fights"
                      Sir Winston Churchill


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

                        His observation wasn't that all or even most TG players are bred on Evolution. His observation was that he noticed "many" were. Also, consider his context: the Shack Tactical gaming style is the polar opposite (within ArmA) of Evolution.
                        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
                        I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
                        Feel free to quote me. ~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

                          We need a system!!!!
                          Monday: A new stickied topic (Sunday Teams) is made showing the maps for next sunday and the ratio of people required in each map, the first post should be made by a regular user, so that people can post underneath to choose what team they want to be for each map (admins have the right to switch peoples teams to even the ratios)
                          Tuesday: A map briefing is posted so every player knows what the map is like and doesnt have to go into the new map and suddenly adapt to a totaly different map style than they were expecting
                          Wednesday: Overall commanders are chosen for each team and is posted at the very top of the stickied sunday teams topic
                          Thursday: Time for commanders to think up a plan
                          Friday: Plans must be posted in seperate topics (relying on team honours not to look at the other persons plan)
                          Saturday: Quick discussion of plan
                          Sunday: MAKE WAR!!!!
                          This post, along with the final mission we played during this event really made me think. What if we did a weekly event in a campaign style fashion which squared the two teams against each other for control of the entire island. Like a large TvT perpetual capture the island. Each team would be allotted a series of assets and would have control over a section of the island and the week would be spent strategising over how to advance to the next city, or perhaps how to defend their gains. And then a few hours during the weekend the battle would rage across the countryside for control of the island nation.

                          Anyways, good games Sunday, it was quite fun.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

                            You mean two temporary squads? That would be badass.
                            The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~
                            I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~
                            Feel free to quote me. ~

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Thoughts/AAR TvT event Sunday

                              I enjoyed Sunday alot, and although I'm not affiliated with anyone in particular I have been stalking the TG server for the last month of so.

                              That was my first real TvT mission previously I have played Berserk on a public server but that was more like an FFA Fragfest than TvT. No respawns makes you think about what your doing, where your going and making sure you cover where your supposed to cover. Beyond that there is the factor of trusting your teammates to have your back and while that's always important it's more in-your-face than on a map with infinite respawn.

                              On another note I would say that 90% of online ArmA players are used to playing evo in one of it's many forms. Every time I look at the server list there are maybe 6 or 7 servers that aren't playing Evo. It's not good or bad, it's just the way things are at the moment with ArmA.

                              Originally posted by mingmong View Post
                              They stopped...but didn't dismount. And I watched in horror as the 50 cal and two civvie vehicles charged the enemy positions. One civvie vehicle and the 50 cal were destroyed, the other vehicle made it through and proceeded to secure the resort area.
                              I was the gunner on that truck and tbh we were wondering why we were being sent on a suicide mission. It didn't make much sense considering they were the only 2 heavy weapons we had. Minor miscommunication.. I knew I should have brought a notepad and pencil to the briefing. We'll get it next time.



                              Comment

                              Connect

                              Collapse

                              TeamSpeak 3 Server

                              Collapse

                              Advertisement

                              Collapse

                              Twitter Feed

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X