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  • Evo Blue TG style---Testing

    Thanks for everyone who came out. Some bugs were identified right away. I've not played Evo Blue on other servers, so all this seems new to me.

    The first thing I would like to point out is the enemy A.I. Not only the reinforcements and their numbers, but how much more aggressive the A.I. have been set. First shot with a M136 before I could even marvel at the ArmA Effects I had an RPG returned right at me. Then as we fought that initial group we were immediately flanked. This became the story of the evening. Open fire and get surrounded by enemy. Formation and weapon selection becomes key. Grenades and area affect weapons are much more important to beat back pushes. THe reinforcements come at such a frequency that destroying radio towers MUST be the top priority. However, as I mentioned before the A.I. certainly don't make this an easy task.

    The Arty and Air Strike are going to play a key role. The current edition calls for a definite combined arms feel as ground troops were swarmed with superior numbers. Armor and Air Assets are going to be a bigger part. The accuracy with the RPG's and the swarming should keep the Armor in Check. The limits placed on Air should also keep things from getting out of hand. That leaves the Arty and Air Strike for the Team Leader to be used on getting high priority targets especially when manned CAS is not available.

    Overall a positive experience. Some bugs need to worked out. Stability might turn out to be an issue. The difficulty of the mission including the supply lines has gone up considerably so it should be a fresh game for most.
    |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

    XBL GT: Khan58


  • #2
    Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

    Well, two and a half hours after starting we've gotten the comm tower down. First town not yet captured. Now that they are not getting reinforcements faster than we can kill them, we've got a chance.

    One suggestion: I like the arty, how about adding a script that simulates mortars using 203 rounds? Both HE and illumination fire missions can be supported.

    -BoD
    BarnacleofDoom

    One shot - One miss!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

      We finally cleared the town.

      CTDs were a big issue during the game. I could only be in for maybe 5 minutes before crashing to desktop. The CTDs finally stopped for me. Perhaps because of no more AI reinforcements coming into town.

      If a lot of people think Evolution is easy, well... with this new version, get ready to die. A lot. The AI is pretty darn aggressive, to the point that their air forces were attacking us at base! Usually in mods like Domination, angry AI came straight at you or flank out just a bit. This AI took their time to flank out of sight and come right up behind you. It may not be different, but it sure seemed different and caught me off guard.

      I thought having all weapons available at the get-go would be kinda cheesy and make it simple, but no way... this new version is definitely for some COOP and I think the map will last a lot longer than the old version did. I mean, it took almost 3 hours to take Paraiso with about 5~9 people. Atlas and I could take Paraiso down in about 1 hour with old Evo.

      Thumbs up from me, it's a big challenge to play now!
      SADD - Soldiers Against Dumb Drivers - Campaign
      Friends don't let friends drive enemy vehicles.


      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

        Thanks again to everyone that participated last night. We had a consistent population on from about 7-10 people on that really helped give us a wide range of perspectives. Here are some general comments before I get into bugs/errors/suggestions.

        As noted above, this version of Evo is much harder. The AI keep on coming, and coming, and coming. It was such a huge relief bringing down that radio tower after 2.5 hours. That radio tower is an absoutely crucial objective.

        Now, on to the nitty gritty. Here is the official list of bugs, errors, and suggestions I am keeping to track, troubleshoot, and hopefully resolve:

        BUGS

        B.1 - Ammo Crates Not Allowing Access to All Weapons Immediately
        Despite having all rank/point requirements removed, first-time players after a new mission begins do not always have access to all weapons in ammo crates. Sometime pressing "G" multiple times does make all weps available. Sometime dying and respawning makes them available. Players did not seem to have any access problems after scoring at least 1 point.
        Status: OPEN
        Version: Beta
        Reported By: Multiple
        Confirmed: Yes
        Assigned for Action: Loyalguard

        B.2 - Inconsistency Between Hellfire Airstrike and Resulting Damage
        The explosion effects, resulting damage, and crater/debris after an air strike support with a hellfire missile may be inconsistent and actually representative of a single GBU-12 explosion.
        Status: OPEN
        Version: Beta
        Reported By: Insanatrix
        Confirmed: No
        Assigned for Action: Loyalguard

        B.3 - Player Unable to Select Team Leader Position
        At least one player was unable to select the Team Leader position and each attempt resulted in a crash to desktop.
        Status: OPEN
        Version: Beta
        Reported By: Gogeta
        Confirmed: Yes
        Assigned for Action: Loyalguard

        B.4 - Mission Does Not Remember Player's Gear Loadout on Respawn after Death
        At least one player did not have their previous gear selection loadout rememberd and restored upon respawning after death.
        Status: OPEN
        Version: Beta
        Reported By: Gogeta
        Confirmed: Yes
        Assigned for Action: Loyalguard

        ERRORS

        E.1 - Global Sever Disconnect Near Beginning of Mission
        All players connected to the server lost connection and needed to reconnect wthin five minutes of a fresh restart. Players were all in various states of activity: Idle, selecting gear, requesting transfers.
        Status: OPEN
        Version: Beta
        Reported By: Multiple
        Confirmed: Yes
        Assigned for Action: Loyalguard

        E.2 - Frequent Crashes to Desktop
        Several players have experienced frequent and/or multiple CTD's. It often appears that mutiple players (2-3) CTD at the same time but have no apparent associatin causing it. Players are in various states of activity when CTD's occur: Idle, in vehicles, in Map screen, etc.
        Status: OPEN
        Version: Beta
        Reported By: Multiple
        Confirmed: Yes
        Assigned for Action: Loyalguard

        SUGGESTIONS

        S.1 - Implement Mortar Support Requests
        Originally posted by BarnacleofDoom
        One suggestion: I like the arty, how about adding a script that simulates mortars using 203 rounds? Both HE and illumination fire missions can be supported.
        Status: OPEN
        Implementation: Most Likely Possible if Community Supported
        Assigned for Action: Loyalguard

        S.2 - Reduce the Rate of Enemy AI Reinforcements
        This request has been made by multiple players with the justification that the current rate of reinforcement is not likely plausible. Current rate is based on the number of humna players conncected and include vehicle/infantry columns as well as para-drops.
        Status: OPEN
        Implementation: Most Likely Possible if Community Supported
        Assigned for Action: Loyalguard

        ...

        If you have additional bugs, errors, or suggestions please post them in this thread!

        ...

        After some diagnosis last night and this morning I feel confident that we can squash most if not all of the bugs as all of them seem to at least be impacted by the changes I have made to the mission. I have in mind possible solutions for B.1 and B.2 but may need some further testing to eplore B.3 and B.4.

        However, I do not think the errors are connected to the the mission changes. From keeping notes of my observations last night, I feel pretty confident that the the disconnects and CTD's are very likely related to the number of enemy AI (especially the reinforcement system). I did notice that after two hours in (and >400 AI kills) the number of disconnects and CTD's pretty much became zero once progress into the City was made and reinforcements were slowly but surely neutralized. Implementing Suggestion S.2 may help with these errors and I am looking at options. In the meantime, if you suffered from irregular disconnects or CTD's, please check out this page inthe BIS wiki and see if there is any valuablle information to be gained: arma.RPT

        What are your opinions on the request for mortars (S.1)? I think this can be implented by substituting mortars for one of the other disabled support options. There is no "mortar" class ammo in ArmA and I do not want to requre the use of an addon so if we implement we need to decide what kind of ammo class would be best. I think the best simulated mortar system would be the M224 60mm Mortar. Barnacle suggested using m203 rounds as simulated mortars wounds. I would also suggest the Camel Grenade. It packs a little more punch (20 damage vs. 12) and I think might be represenative of the damage a M720/888 mortar shell might cause. I will see if it can be done and do comparative tests in the meantime.

        Lastly, I mentioned last night I would post a video of all of the different support requests as originally released in Evo Blue that I made while testing. It is 6 mins and has been edited to reduce wait time between attacks. This shows the current requests we currently have in the pre-edited form as well as the options we disabled (except ammo crate). Here is a link to the video:

        Evo Blue Ordnance Support Requests at YouTube

        Thanks again and I will post progress as soon as possible!
        LoyalGuard

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

          I wouldn't mind seeing the mortars as a support option. Something like that would be a little less destructive than an Arty Strike and would be more appropriate in in close proximity to friendlies.

          I also think the reinforcements need to be slowed. With the A.I. skill settings the way they are it seemed like a very very tough uphill battle to get a foothold. I would say almost daunting if you don't have the experience to be coordinated in the attack. Things seemed to go easier the more planning went into weapon selection and timing with the support options.
          |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

          XBL GT: Khan58

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

            Hey loyal i wanted to comment on that precision airstrike. I think if you left it as a GBU it would be fine as long as you limit it to every 5 or 10 minuites. The main thing im worried about is a hellfire's explosion radius is only 2-4 meters while the gbu's is 10 meters, so it doesnt leave alot of room for error especially if its gonna be limited every 5-10 minuites. I think the reason it seemed so powerful last night was cause i was literally dropping it every 30 seconds because we were getting our asses handed to us lol. also the indirect damage on a hellfire is about 20 dmg or something like that so its enough to take out a few infantry but if you miss any kind of armor its just gonna scratch it most likely. If you just want to keep it as a hellfire thats fine with me, this is just my input on it. Or another thought is you could make it a maverick because i think its right inbetween a hellfire and a GBU. Also i dropped it about 25m in front of me and it looks like its scripted as an artillery hellfire and GBU explosion almost. cause i saw a artillery explosion plus the big cloud from a GBU but the actual explosion was more like a hellfire.


            Anyone who thinks that Evo is gonna be a cakewalk is now sadly mistaken. In this version i was sitting on a hill about 100-200m away from everyone, having never fired a shot, and about 5 enemy soldiers crept up the hill on me and took me out. I was totally unprepared for how good the AI was gonna be in this. Now your situational awareness has to be alot better if you want to be able to move as a squad through these cities.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

              Originally posted by Insanatrix View Post
              Now your situational awareness has to be alot better if you want to be able to move as a squad through these cities.
              I think this captures the new settings best and will encourage the most teamwork. I can't wait to get a big infantry squad supported by armor and CAS rolling into the city.
              |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

              XBL GT: Khan58

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

                @Insanatrix - Thanks for the additional feedback! I am going to do some more tests on this this afternoon to see if we can nail it down. Is there any evidence that the predator has been used a launch platform for the maverick? From re-examining the ammo classes it seems the hellfire causes 850 damage but the maverick only 800 so is there a gain on indirect damage? Al that beng said, I really think the any AGM should be for use against armor/building or hardened targets so I am not sure for the change. Especially if we add mortars, I am not so concered for having to use AGM's against infantry. However, I will definitely consider all options. I will post some videos of my tests so we can all compare the effects.

                BTW and FYI to all, just to explain a little more how the support requests work. Obviously there is no one "firing" these weapons. What happens is that when a request is confirmed, a script creates the appropriate weapon anywhere from 2-50 meters above the target (or within a given radius above the target for arty) and then it impacts the ground or the vehicle/building
                LoyalGuard

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

                  I've not had the pleasure???? if pleasure it be, of trying this EvO version out yet but it does sound AWE INSPIRING from the cool calculated replies here.

                  Praise be to Loyal for some stirling work on this version and for keeping all up to date with the progress.

                  Could it be that the TG changes have upset some of the attack/ defend ratios that would have been made in the original or was that taken into account with any changes made?
                  IE If you remove some of the attackers power you should balance the defenders might also to keep the fight see-saw level.

                  From reading some of the reports it seems as if the para drops and other re-inforcements out wayed the attackers ability to strike.
                  Clearly the Radio tower should be an early target but without a good weapon to kill this it's going to be mega tuff.
                  Don't get me wrong here I'm all for proper planning to over come the objective but as a Co I should also have the correct weapon available. For me any errs on judgement should go in favour of planning and structure as apposed to the spray, pray and charge mob.

                  Don't forget I haven't tried this yet and my oppinion is based on these forum posts and as such are my interpritations of the new waring on EvO.
                  "I like a man who grins when he fights"
                  Sir Winston Churchill


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

                    Well I only managed to play for a short while last night but it was the most fun I have had in Evo in a while. Thanks to Loyal for putting together the beta and making the appropriate changes.

                    I tagged along with the group that approached and took down the radio tower, so the city was partially cleared at this point (think it was Loyal, Fiddlestix, Angel of death). It really took 4 of us to safely get to the radio tower, destroy it and get out. Even still there were casualties. The AI was quick to react and came in large numbers.

                    The re-enforcements coming at a quick pace in my opinion can take away from us using a more tactical approach. If you know you only have a short window before being overun again it may lead to a more run and gun style vs. a more methodical sweep of the city. Perhaps lengthen the re-enforcement time or even better put it at randomly spaced intervals i.e. a 7-20 minute window?

                    As far as glitches I didn't notice any but again I joined after people had already been playing for 1h 45 min.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

                      Originally posted by Barnaby View Post
                      ...Could it be that the TG changes have upset some of the attack/ defend ratios that would have been made in the original or was that taken into account with any changes made?...
                      Thanks Barnaby! I don't think any of our changes affect the attack/defend aspects. None of the scripts I edited or created deal with the enemy...Also, from playing Evo Blue on public servers for evaluation, the intensity of the AI and the frequency of the reinforcements appeared the same as our version.

                      For a little more background on the waves of reinforcements. As we discussed last night...the interval between waves is tied to the number of human players in-game. The more humans, the faster the reinforcements stream/drop in. This ratio should be easy to adjust, we just have to find the right balance. I'd hate to think what would be waiting for us while we take time to plan with 10-20 people on the server when we finally roll in :row__631:
                      LoyalGuard

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

                        I've been thinking, what happens if someone gets a Vulcan or Stinger up? At that point the reinforcements might be neutralized or maybe they will still have time to bail out. We might need to do some testing for that situation as that is why I understand the paradrop reinforcements were removed from the early Evo versions anyway. They were turning the Mi-17's into stat padders paradise.
                        |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                        XBL GT: Khan58

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

                          Thanks for the extra details Loyal, that system makes sense and should help the game scale nicely. I guess a bit more testing should happen to determine what to do with the reinforcements, I don't think anyone wants to make life to easy but considering the Evo server is somewhat of a "puby" affair extreme difficulty may keep players away?

                          kHan you make a good point, if AA effectively nulls the enemy reinforcment it could throw the balance out of wack. Perhaps remove one of the forms of AA?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

                            I hope Evo Blue goes back up for about a week for more testing, I can't wait to get back in there again!

                            There was something I wanted to add about the sneaky AI to my last post.

                            Angel and I were both medics and were trying to make our way down into town from the west side hill just north of the west road into town. Angel and I slowly made our way down to the first set of apartments. At all times, we had eyes in front and behind. Once we made it to the apartment, I built a MASH and we set out to begin clearing the immediate area. Before we could move, Angel started firing on AI moving on our position from the south. I kept an eye out on the north side in case AI decided to flank and sure enough, they were. My 249 made sure theycouldn't even cross the street.

                            Now, somehow with our good coverage AI managed to get passed us...

                            Angel is still covering the south and I'm busy scanning the north. All seems quiet and we haven't seen anymore AI. Suddenly, I hear Angel say something over comms and his rifle firing. I turned around with a "hunh?" and see a dead sniper right behind me (within wedgie range). The sniper must have flanked far west and climbe the hill west of us to get behind me. Why he didn't take a ranged shot is a mystery to me...

                            Overall, very fun, challenging and unpredictable.
                            SADD - Soldiers Against Dumb Drivers - Campaign
                            Friends don't let friends drive enemy vehicles.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Evo Blue TG style---Testing

                              Originally posted by loyalguard View Post
                              @Insanatrix - Thanks for the additional feedback! I am going to do some more tests on this this afternoon to see if we can nail it down. Is there any evidence that the predator has been used a launch platform for the maverick? From re-examining the ammo classes it seems the hellfire causes 850 damage but the maverick only 800 so is there a gain on indirect damage? Al that beng said, I really think the any AGM should be for use against armor/building or hardened targets so I am not sure for the change. Especially if we add mortars, I am not so concered for having to use AGM's against infantry. However, I will definitely consider all options. I will post some videos of my tests so we can all compare the effects.

                              BTW and FYI to all, just to explain a little more how the support requests work. Obviously there is no one "firing" these weapons. What happens is that when a request is confirmed, a script creates the appropriate weapon anywhere from 2-50 meters above the target (or within a given radius above the target for arty) and then it impacts the ground or the vehicle/building

                              yes the maverick from what i can tell has a larger explosion radius and mavericks are actually used against hardened targets as well as armor in real life.

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