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  • Attempt to Control Communications

    I tried something different this evening, once I become the admin in server 2, in an attempt to minimize the communications traffic. I was looking for a way to stop 30 people from yelling on side or global channel, so I put out a rule that prohibited any conversation on side or global after the briefing screen. This was meant for all players including PL/SL/TL.

    The PL was instructed to brief all SL/TL during the briefing screen to include map markers, general ROE, fire condition, and any other information. I think that order of movement and chain of command was left out and was needed, but this was only the first night of this new style of command and control.

    I think this went over pretty good and could be something that takes off if basic rules were followed. There were no violators throughout the night and it went surprisingly smooth. The last mission was more difficult because of the sniper squad being out of communications, but we marked the map with enemy locations and if the commander so desired he could have updated orders in writing on the map (footnotes sort of).

    The best part was that the ability to think while executing orders was great, the team organization was great, and the level of execution was great as well.

    I am curious what others thought of this new communications plan. This doesn't have to be used every night, but I think if I am admin I will keep it going to add structure and added complexity.

    Your thoughts?

  • #2
    Re: Attempt to Control Communications

    So the PL couldn't talk to his people on side? This setup could work if you have all the team leaders and special equipment/ vehicle crews on TS. Also, when the squad leaders die, their squads would need to have someone else hop on TS for it to work. Using direct chat would work for everything but vehicle support like Bradley's or AH-64's for instance. This is more of a hinderence to the PL and doesn't allow him or his squad leaders to communicate if something changes. It does suck the way coms are setup in this game but I don't think putting sidechannel and global off limits will work for certain maps. Some maps i'm sure it will work fine in though.
    |TG-Irr|LCpl. Soto
    TGULT-Roel Yento

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Attempt to Control Communications

      I was reading a thread today on another ArmA website posted in January of this year. I cannot remember the guys name but he basically said "I went on the TG servers yesterday for a couple of hours, they spent half an hour arguing on which mission to use and then another half an hour on a briefing so my two hours of gaming that I had was taken up with an hour of non-gaming, some people just try to make the game far too realistic and in the end then make it completely unrealistic".

      I thought this interesting as this is not the first time I have heard this, yet it was one of the first times I had seen it written somewhere. As such I have started to become a little concerned of late with obsession to hold monster briefings. If anyone feels this is the only way to achieve a successful mission, I am more than happy to go in-game with you and take command and you can see how briefing information can be quickly digested, a battle plan drawn up and troops rolling in a very short space of time. I would like to see missions actually "Launched" a lot faster here, i.e. get everyone in slots fast then sort out the mission once you are on the ground. That way we might not lose players who look forward to getting in game and getting things rolling.

      Sunday or other events are the times when large scale planning goes on.

      Some people think TS is the solution to all problems, some people cannot stand it. Some people love direct chat, others cannot stand it. Some think there is too much chat, others think there is not even half the actual comms that go on in real life.

      The point being no one is "correct" in this instance, however I do feel some peoples ears are a little more delicate than others.

      My point being, anything other than a match/event should not be using a great big long briefing before the game gets started. On an average day, people just want to have some fun and go enjoy a mission without giving an OpORD as long a your arm.

      Now.......if the mission has been specifically designed to not use Side comms unless in an emergency, then that is different.

      With regards TS, I find I spend more time switching bloody radio channels or broadcast keys between in game VON then TS then game VON, etc etc. I personally find it a pain in the butt.

      A mission commander SHOULD be on the comms a lot, every SL should become sick of his voice, IF he is doing his job properly and tracking at all times where each unit is and advising/co-ordinating movements as such. Again.....unless the mission is designed otherwise.

      Players on teams can simply MUTE all other players that are not in their team, by using the P key and muting a player. However if I catch SL's doing this I personally will kick them from the server as it is no fun for a commander to be calling a squad five times and simply not get any response because the SL has muted the CO.

      As a final note.............

      No one who selects a mission as a voted "admin" is in fact an ADMIN of TG ArmA. Therefore we do not want to see anyone acting as such on server. If you have a problem with a player there is TS and Contact an admin section to this forum. It has been observed that a few people have mistakenly believed that because you are elected to simply select a variety of missions that this makes you the admin for that session. It doesnt, as such, act accordingly.

      This means that anyone who is not a TG admin will NOT be allowed to set their own rules as to how the game is going to played, other than the standard TG SOP's.
      BlackDog1




      "What we do in life... echoes in eternity!"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Attempt to Control Communications

        A small review of a TacticalGamer´s freshman for yesterday night.

        When I had connected yesterday just a new Map was started. Unfortunately, I cant remeber which one we played...but... she did not run long, because the Sever chrashed.

        Next one was Blackhawk Down...
        ..a long time just starring at the monitor, the reason was this endless "Slot-discussion"..
        Then..the map starts....after a good briefing by LCpl.Soto... we went directly in the hot zone.
        We stopped at the roundabout..a short heavy firefight starts...unfortunately, some soldiers lost already here her life. My squad looses 2 guys (including the Squadleader)..from then we were 3. [TG]Fenian lead us and we finished the mission without other losses in our Squad.

        A new map starts...(and again this endless "Slot-discussuion) ..it was a TvT map..cant remeber which one..but it was a short one. The mission target was killed by somebody.
        Result: 15 min. talking about Slots ---> 5 min. playing ArmA

        The last map starts at this evening for me. Cant remeber the name..but it was the one that starts early in the morning..it is dark...nobody got a NVG...and the leader say´s...dont fire flares!!!!..but....flares at the sky show us the nice landscape and show the enemy our position.
        2 Squadleaders loose the connection....sometimes it was a little confusing about the fact were we go.....but that was like real life...so I was not surprised. The mission end´s for me in a "firefight" with 2 BMP´s.....and my rifle.

        Ok guys..that was my short review.A few facts for the end:

        1.The "Slot-discussion" thing. Maybe it was just at this night...but it was really boring.
        2.The communication! (and back to the topic)..for me it is not easy to understand all the important messages, because my english is not the best. But it is harder to understand, if some people screaming in the background some stupid stuff or the PL talks in the global channel and at the same time somebody talks in sidechannel or groupchannel. (note: thx Blackdog..i forgot the mute thing).

        This should be only a few small impressions of a TG freshman....(not a ArmA freshman!)....

        bye
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Attempt to Control Communications

          I played with Tango last night and it worked quite well. That being said, I'm a firm believer in the SL having the ability to communicate with the PL/TL. For example, we did BHD 2.1D or 2.0D and we had a 5-ton and a Humvee lost for 5 minutes. They weren't allowed to use side to ask for a heading or location. Then once we moved out I did like the no talking on side once we were in the city. Even after the Bradley started to take grenades, the direct chat was easier to understand then 4 people yelling on side. This is where I think the squad leader should be able to communicate with the command. We found the final survivor and loaded him in the Bradley, but after he got in we couldn't find the TL or another SL so we had to hunt him down on direct. No this is the point I'm trying to make. I think the talking on Side should be controlled tightly. The side channel was made for TL to talk to SL to update them. Why not use it at all. Just enforce heavily on only SL/TL/PL being able to use it. Just my personal opinion

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          • #6
            Re: Attempt to Control Communications

            I was there last night for those missions where we were only allowed to use direct or group chat. Now first I must say that it was actually a very fun experience IMO. Second, it was actually much quieter in-game and you didn't feel the need to rush or anything with all the people talking on sidechat. Although I do believe that in some circumstances, such as when the sniper team was doing recon on that mission last night, that it should be allowed. If we have to use it, it should be only be used the PL/TL/SL, and that should be strictly enforced with some rules so that five people aren't talking at once. But otherwise, I liked the idea very much and it was a very fun experience.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Attempt to Control Communications

              Me personally, I play on TG because of the teamwork and planning. I can't stand when I play with a PL that doesn't have any sort of plan or passes orders that don't get followed. The guy that wrote his comment on another site is correct that time goes into picking slots and planning but If everyone randomly picks a spot then you will have squadleaders with no mic's or that don't respond, pilots that don't know how to fly or have any discipline, and no structure. Also, just about everything you do in the Military will be a hurry up and wait situation. You can still win a mission with a gaggle of people but the mission was by no means completed profficiently.

              Things would go by quicker in the selection screen if people stepped up and took PL or squadlead or FTL. Half of the players want to do the mission right and effectively and the other half want to rush the objective and get as many kills as possible. I prefer doing things right, especially on 1 life missions. I don't like waiting in spectate because I get killed by someones negligence because they don't wanna listen, want to rush, and don't know what they are doing.

              Briefing and moving out can go very quickly, but when people have to be told several times how to form up a convoy even though they were briefed on it or to get their squad staged to move out, it takes that much longer. You could just move out without the people that missunderstood but then that isn't fair to them because they haven't been trained so it's hard to expect them to fully understand things, especially if they are new to the game and server.

              I just hope that comms are setup better in ArmA 2. The PL and squadleaders should be able to communicate without messing with everyone elses comms.
              |TG-Irr|LCpl. Soto
              TGULT-Roel Yento

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Attempt to Control Communications

                Originally posted by LCpl. Soto View Post
                I just hope that comms are setup better in ArmA 2. The PL and squadleaders should be able to communicate without messing with everyone elses comms.
                Meanwhile we can easily mute them, it works really well. If you're a grunt just mute all other leaders except those you need to listen to, and world will be much more quiet.

                Another thing is that we're too used to lightspeed radio comms with immediate responses, something which, at least to my experience, just doesn't happen in real life. First of all you have to use proper radio protocol, and unless personal role radios are used you can count on reaching the radioman before the message gets to the person you were really trying to reach. I still remember when we first go your hands on PRRs(squad leads and up): None had ever used them so we started treating them sort of like mobile phones, chatting away way too much. For guys who were used to leading by "traditional means" and the occasional use of radio(one AN/PRC-77 in each platoon + one in the platoon's forward observer team at that time) it was heaven. You'd see stuff like the sniper scene from "Generation Kill", where the leader uses his PRR to give the sniper team the permission to fire, from ten meters away. Misuse like that ended after first mock assault, when the officer listening to our comms made it pretty clear what he though about our use of radios :row__577:

                In Arma you don't of course have to worry about enemy direction-finding, jamming, listening to your comms etc.(All these would be nice features in TvTs btw) so discipline can be a bit more relaxed, but at times it is indeed a bit too relaxed and the comms are jammed with several people speaking on top of each other.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Attempt to Control Communications

                  Originally posted by LCpl. Soto View Post
                  ....... If everyone randomly picks a spot then you will have squadleaders with no mic's or that don't respond, pilots that don't know how to fly or have any discipline, and no structure. Also, just about everything you do in the Military will be a hurry up and wait situation. You can still win a mission with a gaggle of people but the mission was by no means completed profficiently.

                  Things would go by quicker in the selection screen if people stepped up and took PL or squadlead or FTL. Half of the players want to do the mission right and effectively and the other half want to rush the objective and get as many kills as possible. I prefer doing things right, especially on 1 life missions. I don't like waiting in spectate because I get killed by someones negligence because they don't wanna listen, want to rush, and don't know what they are doing...........
                  I agree with you absolutely!!

                  I only wanted to say with my comment that it was (in my opinion) unusually long to find the right slots....
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Attempt to Control Communications

                    Originally posted by Blackdog1-22 Reg.SAS View Post
                    As a final note.............

                    No one who selects a mission as a voted "admin" is in fact an ADMIN of TG ArmA. Therefore we do not want to see anyone acting as such on server. If you have a problem with a player there is TS and Contact an admin section to this forum. It has been observed that a few people have mistakenly believed that because you are elected to simply select a variety of missions that this makes you the admin for that session. It doesnt, as such, act accordingly.

                    This means that anyone who is not a TG admin will NOT be allowed to set their own rules as to how the game is going to played, other than the standard TG SOP's.
                    I understand what you are saying and I might have phrased my comments wrong last night at 3am. I am not an admin in TG, but was simply the voted admin to choose maps, deselect users that are afk, slot afkers, organize the PL, take charge if no one is willing to step up, and organize chaos if it breaks out. This is the extent of the responsibilities, but I was voted admin immediately following a mission where there was chaos (disconnects, flares, voice communications abuse, and random shots).

                    The goal I was trying to achieve was simply to get people inline with reducing their communication and allow people to execute the mission.

                    This is the thread for the communication SOP and I did ask people to break this and only use direct and group chat. If you feel that I should not be voted in as admin for this behavior I understand and will decline the votes moving forward.

                    I will not ask people to do anything more then the communication SOP states moving forward.

                    http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-a...comms-sop.html

                    Channel usage:

                    Global Chat (White): Admins only. This will not be utilized in game by anyone, minus an administrator for messages that must be conveyed to the entire game. Abuse of this channel will result in being banned from the server.

                    Side chat (Blue): This is for communication for the Squad Leader to his Team Leaders. Both elements may utilize this channel to conduct movement and contact reports. This channel will get busy with the command elements, so team members are discouraged from jumping on and speaking once the mission has started. Let the leaders talk, you can listen in, but they are in charge.

                    Group chat (Green): This is your bread and butter channel. This is where the basic team will conduct all of its business. The Team Leader will convey all commands as well as any other communication to their team. You may communicate with other team members only on this channel, but that should be plenty of people to talk to.

                    Vehicle chat (Yellow): This channel is utilized when you jump into a vehicle. This channel has to be utilized when your team jumps into a vehicle that has members from a different team piloting or riding in it. A good example is most helo pilots are on separate teams, so when a fire team boards a helicopter the only way to tell him where to land will be vehicle chat.

                    Direct Communication (Purple): Most mission have built in teams and squads. There is the occasional mission that is uploaded that is lacking proper team break downs. This is a good time to use direct chat to communicate with the element you have created and members around you. It is limited in how far you can talk, so you will have to be close to them to communicate. To help better the game, if you run across a mission that does not have teams broken down correctly, please post in the forums the mission name and we will see what we can do about editing the mission to accommodate leadership roles.

                    Mission Selection/Seagull/Deadman (Group chat): Talk away with other members as much as you want. Avoid jumping on any other channel to avoid who is in what channel.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Attempt to Control Communications

                      Tango,

                      My comments were not aimed specifically at you but a general observation with a lot of "kickings" of late and people that were kicked then head straight to contact an admin and say "hey Wtf?" Normally we can explain why a regular might have had to kick them and normally it's all good, but I was just clarifying the role of a public admin.

                      Please do not take my post as an indication for you personally to stop being a voted admin, not my intention at all and all the admins thank you for stepping in when required, to keep a steady ship. So in that instance please carry on.

                      My comment was just as a reminder and a heads up to everyone to the roles and responsibilities of people on the server and the fact that we have comms SOP's for the server.

                      If a mission commander however decides that he wishes to run his mission on direct chat only, then that is his perogative considering said person stepped forward to lead the mission. If people dont like that, then they know what to do. Step forward for the next mission.

                      However, for the majority of cases using the "mute" feature in the player screen will provide most people with the "scerenity" they are looking for! ;)

                      In answer to some of the previous observations with regards position selection, this should take no longer than 2 minutes for slot selection. This is easily achievable and will not have a detrimental affect to the outcome of the mission in anyway shape or form. Commander simply needs to step forward, once he steps forward he may say, "I want you, you and you as SL's, everyone else fill in ASAP"... once this settles down 30 seconds later, the commander can scan roles and instantly know which gaps may need filling, a quick scan of the commander notes a final check of positions then launch the map.

                      I certainly then did not imply that there should not be decent planning, I just advised it is done in game. WHY? Arma is know to have a comms bug and often people cannot hear each other in the briefing screen while some can. It is completely pointless for a commander to give a full briefing only to get a text message from one of the SL's saying..when are we doing the briefing, because their comms were not working.

                      In game, they generaly settle down and while SL's are sorting their Grunts with weapons load outs, the Commander should be buried nose-deep in the briefing and working out a plan. He can then pull the SL's to one side and hey presto the mission is in full effect and people are not bored at a briefing screen but looking around them in game with a bit more attention and things to do, like check load out, etc.

                      So, not any of the above means a "less co-ordinated" mission and as I offered, I will happily show any non-believers that this can be achieved perfectly easily.

                      A lot rests on the experience of the CO.
                      Last edited by Blackdog1; 04-13-2009, 04:06 PM. Reason: typo's
                      BlackDog1




                      "What we do in life... echoes in eternity!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Attempt to Control Communications

                        Thanks for the clarification on that Blackdog.

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