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Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

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  • Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

    Leave your comments here about this game.

  • #2
    Re: Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

    Fun but needs a couple of edits which we should make a dedicated thread for
    If you wanna find me off TG
    Xbox live- fusionpo0
    Steam Username - 0hilla27/fusionpoo
    Xfire - fusionpoo


    • #3
      Re: Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

      The event mission was great. The mission I joined around 10PMPST was a disaster. I never fired a shot, and almost always walked around unarmed, but I still managed to get killed dozens of times for ridiculous reasons. It was a fustercluck of massive proportions.


      • #4
        Re: Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

        Well had to relieve this frustration somewhere. So here we go. This game was the worst experience I have ever had ever on TG including mishaps and mischiefs in Arma1 and "the bumpy era" of Arma 2.

        There were moments that resulted me to uninstall Arma and take long breaks in Arma1. This has to be one of them. I will be seeing you when I miss it again, enough to sit through hours of downloads once more. Hopefully then the game, the mod, and the community will have matured.


        • #5
          Re: Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

          Respectfully of course but I completely disagree with "B".

          At the beginning it was great, it was fun, it was hard etc. The mission though does need some edits to make it more....restricted? The idea behind the whole thing is fun, its that we had a lot of 'unorganized' moments. Not to mention it was played late at night.

          I don't think it was so much a bad mission at all and ultimately no mission should be. Its instead the leadership, organization, communication, coordination and cohesion of a group that make a mission either good or bad. As the night drove on the lack of the forementioned values did deteriorate on some teams and thats, in my opinion, to be expected. Otherwise, I thought this mission has a lot of potential.

          Pro Patria


          • #6
            Re: Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

            B, I think you need to stay. You're a Pathfinder. I think TG ArmA2 needs some people who can lead to help get things back on track here.


            • #7
              Re: Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

     - Thread where people complain about Poopy, Dr Tesla and Fallout.

     - My Fallout mission critique thread.


              • #8
                Re: Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time


                1. Ace medical please.
                2. Indistructable Fuel trucks [prevents destruction and un-fair hiding tactics.]
                3. Limited respawn [4]
                4. Weapons. Two ways you can go, either beef blufor way up. OR make everyone only have SMG's and pistols. The second option would be interesting as civis could not be sniped across the map and firefights would last longer and be closer. ACE medical would work better with SMG/pistol also.
                TG Pathfinder

                "I travel alone through the valley of the shadow of death, yet in my heart I carry no fear, for Gods hands will guide me to Truth and Honor."


                • #9
                  "It was the best of games. It was the worst of games."

                  Like the TESLA mission, this mission engages the players. It is and will be a classic. You will either love it or hate it. You will either beg people to play it again or beg them not to play it again. Well done, Mikee ( who was actually around for part of this I believe or was in game earlier in the afternoon before he revised and reposted the mission.)

                  PLAYERS (I apologize if I get your screen name wrong .. hastily scribbled notes here.. PM me and I will edit this post)

                  Most noticeably for Opfor Force Majeure and fireship4. The rest of the players, Zedic (leader Regulators), h3killa (civilian bounty hunter),Sc( + )pe, Keizei, Adept Abyss, tiggr, telecard, Minwolf, Maxwolf, Igor, Gungnir, Cromagnon, Ln Cpl tOM, [TG]B, Turner89, Chost02, Dmented, Romagnolo, Randir14, and others as I think nearly 50 players started the game. I took this list near the end when people asked me to write an AAR so no offense is intended if you are not listed.

                  A special thank you to Dredge who finally came in as an Admin and ended that game after I begged him to.

                  THE APOLOGIA FOR FALLOUT 12/27-12/28

                  First, apologies. I think I owe Sc( + )pe an apology for the bounty on his head idea. It may have gone awry. Seems he became Public Enemy Number One in the game, perhaps to the exclusion of being able to have fun.

                  Second, and more importantly, we disarmed and shot a team member "snoop". I was the leader of Opfor and I take responsibility for this action. It was not lightly taken. After a private discussion with a team member who claimed to have seen "snoop" at the scene of a series of mysterious explosions that were literally destroying our town building by building, I decided to disarm "snoop". The intent was simply to disarm and place under arrest in a building where we could control his movements.

                  This went bad. As the team moved to disarm him, someone hit the wrong key and discharged their weapon on automatic. I was supervising the disarming by other team members and I thought another squad member had "gone over" and opened fire on the accidental discharge. Result, three dead. 'Snoop', I hope you read this. We had already apologized to you for earlier suspicions. The killing was unintentional (I believe). I would really like to know if you were setting the explosives? If someone else has an explanation, I would love to hear it as this decision bothers me, still. (And, Yes, I know it is just a game and I actually do have a life.)

                  There is one other thing about the "disarming" or arrest that bothered me. "Snoop" was black. How do I put this? During the arrest/disarming someone shouted something to the effect of " the black soldier, yes you" needs to "get on the ground." I am unsure exactly how to put this but again, I apologize as leader for Opfor. I think the remark was made using the "black" as an "identifier" not as racial. You were not singled out because you were black. You were singled out because you had been seen at the explosions more than once and a squad member identified you as placing the charges before the explosions. You left the game after this incident, I hope you read this. People if you see him in game tell him to read AAR here.

                  My final apology is to everyone who left or wanted to leave because the game ran long. You have to understand, "it was the best of times, it was the worst of times." The game became impassioned. Please understand the game lasted more then three hours. Yes, we knew people outside wanted a new map and mission. Yes, I knew people inside wanted a new map/ mission. That being said, the factions could not make peace and agree to end hostilities. We tried to end at the hour and a half mark and my squad revolted because we (at that point) were doing particularly well. We had a complete used fuel truck, HMM V and used pickup sales lot at Germantown.

                  We tried again just before midnight. Blufor refused to concede or accept a truce. We tried voting an admin. There was almost a fistfight over who would be acceptable. When we found someone acceptable, holdouts refused to vote. It was like two drunk fighters who wouldn't stop fighting and couldn't deliver a knockout punch. No one would concede and when concession was broached, no one would accept it. If you were there for the last 15 minutes or so, you should have heard much of this over Global channel.

                  Finally, I decided to go find an Admin in TS Admin channel to end it. No one won. It took a forced shut down of the game to stop the hostilities.


                  Now with the apologia behind me, I would like to talk about this mission. First, it is a great mission! I have played three of the four factions now and seen great game play each time. The game runs long, so be it. Mikee, I will write you separately on suggestions in your thread.

                  I will tell the Opfor story, I would really like to hear from the other factions. I know some of the Regulator story though I would love to see Zedic's comments. Civilians, please comment, as you are the most difficult to understand and I suspect you had the most people eventually leave the game. Please note, that two nights ago, the civilians won the game and defeated the combined arms of the three other factions. Please see my other post for details of their strategy.

                  We started out with a strategy. We decided to leave two people, the faction leader (me) and a good second-in-command (Force Majeure) at our base to protect the supply caches at all costs. We divided the rest of Opfor (I think there were 10 of us) up into small three or four person raiding teams. They were told go get fuel trucks and bring them back here. That was the plan.

                  They were very successful. So, I stress to leaders set a general plan and give your teams some autonomy on this map. They even at one point took the repair truck from our base and fixed a broken fuel truck so they could bring it back base. Very creative use of resources.

                  We had two civilians "surrender" or join us. This entailed a disarming, search, oath of loyalty, and a simple "why do you want to do this." I can't tell you as a faction leader, how difficult it is to trust someone not on your team. If you make a mistake, your team members will pay for it. After team discussion, we accepted then, allowed them to rearm and assigned them a point to defend, and I admit, assigned a "handler" to make sure they were abiding by the agreement. They did. Thank you, I do not know your names or I would put them here. They endured "rough" treatment at out hands initially. Civilian bounty hunters (h3killa, et al.) played a major role in this after contact was made and a degree of trust could be established. Not sure the "price" on Sc( + )ope's head was all of the reason they chose this path.

                  We followed that strategy for 45 minutes to an hour. By that time we had accumulated 4 of the 6 fuel trucks. We had one HMMV, and two civilian pick ups. We also captured two repair trucks. We had two "technicals" MG armed pickups of our own.

                  We had a car lot basically and were very close to a classic total win (my opinion). Up to this point no one had attacKed us in our base.

                  At this point, perhaps an hour in, we changed strategy. We took the captured HMMV and sent it to the Blufor base figuring they would let it in since it was friendly. I think we got in because I think we set explosives at their weapons cache. Guys correct this if it is wrong. We must have stirred up a hornets next because someone discovered we had a hoard of fuel trucks. Some faction, I do not know who snuck into our town and stole one right from in front of us. Surprise was complete and chaos ensued. We couldn't stop them. Shooting, but trying not to hit the fuel was insufficient to stop them. (You have to simply kill the driver .. nothing else will stop the fleeing truck and you only get one chance as the vehicle is stolen.... you have to be fast and you have to be close ... later in the game we actually stopped a repair truck boosting.)

                  This brazen assault forced us to review our precautions. We shot the tires out on all the fuel trucks (front tires) because we had a repair truck and we could fix it if need be. We put bouncing Betty's and booby traps around our vehicles especially the fuel trucks. We were slow to tell our own troops so there was accidental collateral damage when a friendly was chscking on the trucks ans set off the traps. Better communications ensued.

                  The game has a "psyops edge" as Blue for (the Enclave) began a on the air propaganda radio show complete with interviews and began recruiting civilians. We countered with a GLOBAL broadcast of "Radio Wastelandia" speaking directly to the people of "Ecotopia". Sc( + )pe was one of their guests. We responded by placing an unfortunate bounty on him. The bounty was a fuel truck for him wounded but not killed if he was delivered to our base. I regret this in retrospect! It was, however, incredibly effective as a tactic.

                  Opfor (I think we are called the Raiders) was contacted by the Regulators (the Independents) about a possible alliance. After much internal discussion with my forces, I decided to meet the Regulators leader. I expected to die or be captured. There is also the problem that communications between factions have to be done in GLOBAL channel so what you say is monitored by everyone. Needless to say, setting the meeting place has to be carefully done. We managed that communication and a discrete but initial tense meeting took place. My complements to Zedic (leader of the Regulators). We were just beginning negotiations when we came under fire from someone who figures out our meeting place. I told Zedic to take off as for some reason I could not board his vehicle. He headed for Opfor base with no password and no one knew he had made an alliance. This led to frantic communications with my faction to not shoot him as he approached. This was complicated by a communications procedure I had established with Force Majeure who was my second in command. We had a procedure I would use if I was captured and another if I was free and not being forced to communicate. I nearly forgot to use the right procedure. Zedic was allowed in without the indignities and dangers of a search and disarming.

                  We rearmed them to the best of our abilities and set them free to pursue an assault on Bluefor. They did so.

                  As this was all transpiring, a set of explosions was occuring more and more frequently. The town we were defending was being demolished building after building. When I got back from meeting the Regulators, there was noticeably less cover as in buildings than when I left. It was like being in an artillery barrage at times. We were getting pretty desperate to figure out what was happening. This is when the event with "snoop" occurred. If someone actually knows what was going on, please write an AAR and enlighten us as to the source of the explosions. We were truly clueless.

                  The operations continued till slightly after midnight PST, so the game spanned two dates. This game was impassioned. This is not an excuse. I hope this reveals that strategy was at work not run and kill. I prefer COOP (I truly do). This game was both the best and most enjoyable TvT and the worst in terms of the decisions forced by fierce competitiveness. It had all the vagaries and capriciousness of a real battlefield and like a truly appolypctic world, it forced "moral" decisions on the commanders.

                  I think I will take a couple of days off to reset my moral compass. But, I will be back. If I do not want to lead a TvT for a bit forgive me and honor my decision.
                  Last edited by Thomas R Harper, Jr; 12-28-2009, 10:54 PM.
                  "The unexamined life is not worth living". Socrates. "The unlived life is not worth examining". |TG| tiggr


                  • #10
                    Re: Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

                    Zedic was the regulators leader. I was a civi acting as a bounty hunter.


                    • #11
                      Re: Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

                      I'm honestly with B. While a "very" nice map and mod from an effort and technical standpoint. Playing borderlands, garry's mod, and GTA is not the reason I come here or pay SM. I come here for some semi-casual milsim adventures.

                      I'd honestly rather play vanilla Domi than Cops and robbers or some fallout anarchy map. These are fun for events every now and then. But fallout multiple times in a day?
                      Ugh. What happened to the "tactical" around here? Makes the Project Reality server and community look more milsim.

                      Just my opinion as an SM.


                      • #12
                        Re: Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

                        I also agree with Glory&Pain.


                        • #13
                          Re: Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

                          Originally posted by ForGlory&Pain View Post
                          I'm honestly with B. While a "very" nice map and mod from an effort and technical standpoint. Playing borderlands, garry's mod, and GTA is not the reason I come here or pay SM. I come here for some semi-casual milsim adventures.

                          I'd honestly rather play vanilla Domi than Cops and robbers or some fallout anarchy map. These are fun for events every now and then. But fallout multiple times in a day?
                          Ugh. What happened to the "tactical" around here? Makes the Project Reality server and community look more milsim.

                          Just my opinion as an SM.
                          I can only agree on this.
                          |TG| Eugene
                          Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord and has made the Lord his hope and confidence-Jeremiah17:7


                          • #14
                            Re: Fallout Dec 27-28 Central Time

                            I would just like to point out to all the people complaining that this was a last minute signup event and that you did not have to play if you did not like it.

                            When we done the epic Ia Drang awhile back (which i love) no one forced any of the sign ups to play.

                            Think about it.


                            • #15
                              Fallout is not an "Anarchy" map ... it is assymetrical warefare, Folks!

                              Think about it. Fallout is not actually an anarchy map. It is an "assymetrical warfare" map.

                              If you label the forces as follows: BlueFor = Marines, Opfor = Taliban or something like them, Regulators = local police force, and civilians = civilians (or unarmed indiginous population.

                              What you have is the face of modern warfare, not after the bomb warfare. The two just look the same. The frustrations experienced players feel is the disorientation of someone who has trained for one kind of war and now faces another.

                              The history of conflict is rank with such paradigm changes. The point here is, if we truly believe your tactics are strong and correct, then use them and win. If our kung fu is strong, it will become evident in our victories.

                              If, when we get our behind kicked because we cannot establish order in our small force, we decry the map or mission, perhaps we need to look at the posts here even in this discussion of Fallout where people state "we love the difficult tactical mission where you fail and fail till you figure out how to win with good tactics and small forces."

                              I have seen the Opfor win. I have seen the civilians win twice with two different kinds of tactics. And, I have seen them do it thru superior discipline and a plan they followed, once. The second time, they won by defending their ground and acquiring the T34 tank.

                              We are all very "comfortable" when someone says TvT for one reason. We know who the enemy is and we know where he is or will be. We like COOP because anyone not us is a target.

                              The modern battlefield is messy and full of unidentified targets. Rules of engagement are more difficult. This is why you need (do not always get) soldiers who think, improvise, react, reassess, think, improvise and react ..... read the Battle of Fallujah After Action Reports on Marine squad and company level actions there. Opfor should read "The Bear Went over the Mountain" (translated from the Russian) which details Russian tactics in Afganistan.

                              Assymetrical warfare is not new. Guerrilla warfare is only one version. Fallout is not MadMax. It is not a mystery. Those of us who can think fast, adjust our squad level tactics, reassess whether they are working or not, and react to change in the battlefield will not only win the battle but more importantly win it thru superior tactical adaptability.

                              If our squad level battle tactics are / were and still are designed for the Fulga Gap model that we will be fighting Russian forces in combined arms across open fields and forests of Europe or Chernorus, you may want to review the History Channel on the fall of the Soviet Union.

                              I am not trying to lecture but I like research and history. You should too. The surprise we are showing is similar to that of the British infantry who couldn't understand why the Americans would not come out and fight like men in the Revolutionary War. Americans stayed behind trees and hedgerows and didn't wear red. We didn't move in block formations of hundreds of men. We sniped! OMG

                              I think that in Fallout in particular, when we lose an engagement, it is because leadership failed. Our men do not fail. We fail them because we are clueless, or have no plan, or worse have a plan that is wrong and will not change it or take input from someone who makes a suggestion.

                              The reason I think this is based on the last week of play. Watch what happens. If the civilians get together and form a strategy they can win. It is embarrassing to be beaten by a group who had not weapons to start with. I suggest it should be embarrassing.

                              I will not suggest a solution. There is not ONE magic bullet solution. Read the AARs. See what worked. We all admire Col. Hal Moore who "won" the real battle of Ia Drang. He read the after action reports of his enemy commanders from when they had been fighting the French. His tactics reflected that understanding.

                              Read the Fallout AARs. If we are as good a leaders as you think we think we are, we will devise a counter.

                              I think BluFor faces the same problem on this map that Marines face in Afganistan (and perhaps similar in Iraq). We can take a position but as soon as we leave we no longer control it. The real question (and I don't know the answer yet) is can the Marines win thru tactical movement and fire suppression alone or do they HAVE to have support of locals of some kind.

                              Sounds kind of familiar to what we read in the newspapers and see on MSNBC, huh.

                              I will give you an example of where i think the breakdown is. Last night (12/28/09), in spite of saying I would stay away, I got curious. So, I joined the civilians to see what the mission changes had done to them. It didn't matter.

                              Everybody was shooting civilians (duh ... winning hearts and minds). No one (except civilians in Megaton Town) had protected their bases. The civilians there set up a fire base of sorts and guarded and defended it.

                              So, unarmed and not working with another single civilian, I took 5 sets of weaponry from towns and bases across the map, some from caches left unguarded, some from dead left with their weapons. I took three pickups, hid my weapons in the pickups so I could drive around and appear to be unarmed. Gave the three trucks to other civilians along with the hidden weapons. I got to see the T34 get started up (no one in Megaton Town would believe me when I told them so I figured they were all gonna die and left again weaponless). After arming five other players, I went to Germantown and acquired a sniper's rifle. No I was not the one sniping the "Peace Conference." I actually never fired a shot for almost two hours. (I take that back, I accidentally shot a civilian because he was armed and looked like a Regulator and he surprised me while I was acquiring weapons and I had no way out - I couldn't get rid of or hide my weapons fast enough cause I was in the open and thought if he was a Regulator he would shoot first and ask later if he saw my weapons). Then, while conference was going on, I found and stole an unguarded fuel truck on the central hill south of Germantown.

                              Tactics. Find dead. Take their weapons. Hide the weapons so when you are searched you don't have any. Find unguarded cache, take weapons. Hide weapons. Note: you can hide weapons in a vehicle, by a landmark rock, in an unoccupied room, anyplace you can remember. Or, you can give them to others and go get more.

                              When I left a vehicle I had weapons in, I put a satchel under it with trigger in case someone tried to take me or it. When I left weapons in a tree covered and rock covered location or in building, I used a Bouncing Betty to guard them.

                              Suggestions (and yes, you will recognize these cause they are not "new"). When we move, attack, or guard, remember 360 degree awareness (no one saw me watching them). When we win a battle (or lose it) do battle field clearance of weapons, cache then somewhere and hide or /and booby trap them. Protect your weapons cache or take all you need and destroy or booby trap it.

                              If you know you have insufficient force to HOLD after you attack/capture, then hit and run. But, control the ground where you are even when moving.

                              It was extremely interesting to watch everyone get owned by the T34, when there were abundant RPGs and ATA4s on the battlefield. Any of those could have incapacitated the old Russian tank. Now, I will comment based on what I have learned here from all of you. The tank was moving without infantry screen. It has been my experience here that this is suicide for the tank crew. Yet, in Fallout, it worked. Bad mission or bad tactics? (Someone did eventually remember that RPGs cancel tanks especially old ones ... and the hegemony of Megaton Town ended ... all that was left was to compare how many fuel trucks everyone had ...exciting stuff that ... but misses the point)

                              What we are all reacting to with this mission is it holds up a mirror to our tactical souls. We just don't like what the mirror shows.

                              If you love TvT, then this mission is your chance to shine, 'cause it is not obvious, not by the book, and definitely not easy.

                              We are all bemoaning the loss of values and the newbies, puppies, whatever taking over the servers. I have taken the Basic Infantry classes here and I don't function as I did before the class. I believe in what I was taught and what I have read here.

                              They will remain newbies, puppies, and undisciplined until we teach them "the Way". The failing is ours, not theirs. But, the cure is not to stop popular missions. We should put our money where out mouth is. If tactical play is that superior, prove it. Whip their disorganized butts. Or even better, train them ans see if you can still beat them.

                              Take time, even in the heat of battle to teach. And, sometime when you are curious, walk the battlefield, see what people are doing before you write about the failure of the newbies. I fear the failure is of leadership not of discipline or training.

                              They are playing here because they want to learn to play better. If we can't teach someone who wants to learn, then we are not a teachers,and more to the point, we are not leaders.

                              We were not hard coded genetically to play at TG. We learned it. Someone taught us.

                              We have over 50 new players who have expressed an interest in learning by coming here to play. What happens next is up to you.
                              Last edited by Thomas R Harper, Jr; 12-29-2009, 05:07 PM.
                              "The unexamined life is not worth living". Socrates. "The unlived life is not worth examining". |TG| tiggr




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