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EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

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  • EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

    Gentlemen, I specified ex-servicemen, but anyone who's got a solid familiarity with this type of event, and ESPECIALLY with ArmA and the TG community can put their two cents in. I've been hashing this over for a while, and I have always wanted to see an event like this put into action. And fortunately for all of us, the medium through which it can be accomplished is quite readily provided by our very own TacticalGamer community.

    Anyone in the military is familliar with an "FX" or field exercise. Now, these are quite different from the common "exercise" or "field drills" that you do on an almost biweekly basis. These are anywhere from 12-96 hour mock wars that infer the use of combined arms and mock-up situations (Rainbow City was invaded by Lokistan, we've been sent in to help, or some other equally ridiculous made up event) and usually involve the following phases for your standard grunt: Invasion, Assault, the Defense, and Occupation. Now we won't break it down so simply, of course. With ArmA, we have the wonderful ability of making a full scale war with a few (relative term of course) keystrokes and mouseclicks. SO, without further ado, here's the idea:

    A 12-36 hour war, hosted by TG, with signups for given positions. Preferably combined arms, could be TvT or CoOp, but CoOp is preferred. All leadership positions to the squad level would be pre-registered, and fireteam leaders would be selected from the pre-registered list by squad leaders. A training night would be provided for these leadership positions in which basic tactics and formations would be taught, as well as the use of comms (a lot of people mean tight comm control) and combined arms.

    Dedicated support and transport services would be a must. This means cannon-cockers, a logistics team of at least two guys to lighten the workload of the company commander, an air element consisting of at least two birds (one for CAS, one for gs/casevac) and an armored element. I'm wishlisting a light company of one platoon, one support platoon, and a HQ platoon (roughly 50 guys), an air element of roughly 8 men, and an armored element of two tanks and four trucks, the trucks being driven by the logistics bubbas due to pop limit. That comes out to 68 people, maybe more. So this would be a BIG time event, one that would require intense training and planning. But oh what an event it would be, friends.

    We'd need a map with the entire island under OpFor control, preferably with a script to quiz locals, so that we'd have to develop intelligence, and it'd have to be dynamic scripting (random enemy patrols and positions) with a few set objectives and OpFor strongholds. We'd have to ask locals about locations of these strongholds, and the map would have to be known only to its developers, who could in turn act as our designated intelligence specialists, providing the necessary ELINT that would of course have been provided prior to the undertaking of such an extensive operation. They just wouldn't tell us everything, and they'd have to get a few things wrong if you catch my drift.

    The platoons would have to establish bases of operation, with a "work shift" for night ops, so that players could get a rest" JIP's would be filtered in at the KheSahn, to prohibit them from leaving without being picked up by the fireteams that are pulled off the line to receive reinforcements, or however else the commander picks them up. This will provide the "newbies" with the pretty neat (IMHO) experience of being thrown in as replacements without much knowledge as to the situation, and into an obviously embattled and veteran fireteam. In other words, it'll be orderly for the leaders, and chaos for the JIP's. But organized chaos, if you will. Picture this:

    The initial players make an amphibious landing on Chernorus, and carve out a beachhead from which they begin operations. They begin to establish control over their sector, and the disorganized Chernorus forces fall back and form a line. The MEU hits the line and gets stopped cold, and isolated firefights stagnate progress, forcing both sides to dig in and set up defenses. The fireteams get sent out on isolated defensive patrols, and some units get tasked to reccy the enemy line and try to find a weakpoint. Sustained casualties force the Company Commander to rotate the initial front line units back to the Khe Sahn or the beachead, where the rearm and pick up reinforcements that have been marshalled there under the supervision of the logistics squad.

    Now you're a new guy, just a pubber coming on not knowing what to expect. You start on the khe sahn, where you and five other guys are sitting on the deck with some random sergeant telling you where to go. He puts you on a plane, and you fly into chernorus, where you can hear firefights and artillery going off, and now some fireteam or squad is wandering in, obviously understrength. You hear him talking to his fireteams about losses, and then the Sergeant who marshalled you tells you you're assigned to that team that just came in. You go report, and all these veterans start yelling at you to go get this gear or that gear, and make sure you have flares, and you better keep your formation tight, and we move in twenty, and you're in third fireteam, and you better listen to so and so or I'm gonna kill you. Next thing you know, you're in a truck bound for the front, where tracers and artillery are still going off nonstop, and when you get there guys are short on ammo, and raid your truck like it's a gift from god. Your squad leader starts barking at his Fireteams, and your team leader orders you to get on line, you're making a push.

    Now isn't that just badass?! Not to mention the sheer amount of radio traffic going on, and how as a brand new pubber you'd be hearing something that sounds like the movies going on in your comms, with your fireteam leaders crowded around your squad leader, who's talking on comms to his platoon leader, who's relaying information down from the company commander, and the whole time the platoon next to you is engaged heavily, and you're caught up in a war.

    Of course, I'd need some SERIOUS help to get an event like this organized. Any takers?

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less." - R. E. Lee

  • #2
    Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

    You may get a better response in this forum: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-a...n-development/

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

      -Reality is cold and hard...
      Alright.. Its time for your reality check Barnes. This could be pulled off, but not in the way your thinking. There is no way technically we could pull this off on the server as you are envisioning it. Domination with 20 people connected will push the server frame rates down towards the teens. Playable maps should be at least 20-30 for a relatively lag free experience. The only way we could do this is to make a massive series of missions. We would need to approach one objective at a time.

      -Player count and enemy count...
      Also, the player count, 60 people? I have yet to see a 50 person coop. I think we almost had it once and it was o.k. But if you have that high of player count, the enemy count can't be much more. Maybe 110-120% of the player count. So 70 enemies? And they would have to be spread out. We could not put 70 enemies in one city, it would lag really hard.

      -Could be done but lower scale...
      So this could be done, but you would have to break it up into smaller missions. A lot of small missions, and probably lower the player count. And I don't want to hear anything to the contrary. lol. I play this game, I make missions for it. I know what the server can roughly handle. 60 players is too much I think. Probably no more than 40 would be best.

      Alternate attendance and schedule idea...
      You might want to make it 20. Then we could post sign up schedules on various missions and people could attend them through the allotted time. Each mission could get a time slot to be completed.

      -The feeling of a big battle..
      Ambient combat can take away from server performance. BUT.. we can add some custom sound effects and scripted battle effects (random bombs etc.) in the region. You would be amazed at how this can add to the "feel" of being in a larger battle. And of course, we could add some real combat going on between AI controlled forces in a limited way.

      -Objectives and consequences...
      This mission must be broken up to achieve an island wide campaign. I hope you all understand that and accept it, because it is cold, hard reality of modern computing power. However, we could script each mission to be dependent, in some way, on the previous one. Like, if an objective is not reached, the following mission for the next wave of people will be harder in some way. Like more reinforcements or something. This consequence would be a settable parameter. The admin of the mission would have to know the results of the previous mission and set it accordingly.

      Alright, there's my two cents as a non-veteran. This could be something for the mission development team to make for TG. As head of the mission development team, I'd be interested in presenting this idea to the other members, with Admin blessing first of course.
      Last edited by GeneralCarver; 10-15-2009, 11:53 AM. Reason: more to say
      Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity. - General George S. Patton.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

        I think Carver summed things up well. I would like to add you may just want to host an event with a strictly organized running of Evo or Warfare you could get the kind of combined arms with logistics you are looking for.
        |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

        XBL GT: Khan58

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

          I like the idea its close to Realops operations I playing with my friends.They may to explain and enforcement techniques and procedures, as faithfully as possible .The roles are selected earlier.Im up for a TVT event.Theres always 1 or 2 gamemasters watch the whole and trying to bring both parties to the conflict but does not always occur to him;)
          Implementation of such a thing is not particularly easy with a large grup of players.A gave a large number of players.If u got something similar give me a shout.We can put up something up.If there will be evo or warfare i pas :D.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

            Well, this is why I put the idea up in the forums. I need the feedback to make it work. I can deal with multiple missions, but what about only putting 50, 60 AI on the map at once? Trigger them in certain areas, and tasking ONLY small groups to them, keeping the fights isolated and small. In real war, you'll have squad, fireteam sized patrols going out from your lines. When they move foward a certain distance, trigger a response by the AI that's based upon the number of players in the trigger area. If the whole company is in the area, a company plus of AI spawn. If a platoon is in the area, a platoon plus, etc etc. This way, at no time is more than 70 AI active on the map. The sounds are fine. Just ambient noise, make it seem real. If we keep the individuals spread across a line (which we can do by making points key in the victory. IE: Hold these points or lose the fight, and spread those points across a wide wide area, forcing us to have a line of battle) we can keep them constantly engaged with small AI units that probe, much like we would probe. When we probe certain areas, we can find weakpoints, points with lower trigger numbers (make them random), and we can exploit them through ingenius shifting of numbers. JIP's could still marshall on the Khe Sahn, so that they don't have to instantly render a million and one tracers. Basically, spread out the action, and make a LOT of intense, small scale firefights that combine to make one BIG battle. Make sense?

            In essence, it's Evo, just redoctored to cover the countrysides and making the AI a bit more dynamic. It also forces us to use more and more ground. Give the AI better resources too. Air power that can come in, artillery that can be used. Nothing ridiculous (except on strongholds, and when those get triggered, either disable the other trigger areas, or make them lower, so that resources can be redirected.)

            "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

            "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

            "Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less." - R. E. Lee

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

              The scale of what you want will be difficult, but a structured Evo or Warfare session will be your best bet if you do not want to reinvent the wheel. Both of those missions play very differently with the kind of organization you are wanting and would give you all you have asked for, except for the size.
              |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

              XBL GT: Khan58

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

                Evo as it is won't meet the requirements, sadly. The AI just don't have the resources or capabilities to defend against a well organized unit, and it won't provide the level of conflict that I'm looking for. Evo is designed specifically for 10-20 guys, primarily infantry, to take over a map in a period of roughly two hours. I'm looking at something more long term. Way more long term. I also want something that encompasses the entire area of the map, as opposed to a mere portion of it that is entirely restricted to the cities.
                It's the same concept of evo, but on a grander scale as far as the logistics of it goes. Numbers wise, it'll actually come out to around the same, but the AI will have to be far more organized and far better equipped. I'm sure that this can be done, although I'm not sure I'm capable of properly conveying what I see in my minds eye into text, and therefore I'm not quite sure I'd be capable of giving you the specifics of the idea, which in turn means that you can't possibly help me as well as you could in a perfect world.

                Long story short, I think it can be done, but it must be done in bits and pieces, be it on one map or 20. From what I've gathered from you guys, it's ALMOST done by Evo, but not quite. And though we cannot actively engage the entire company at once, or perhaps not even field the numbers I'm stating, we COULD engage a couple of platoons of infantry with limited air support, spread over a wide distance (the entire map) without too many problems.

                We just have to agree on how. So let's make this hypothetical. If somebody put a gun to your head and said you had to make it work, how would you do it? We need the AI to have equal resources, if not better, and we need the fight to be difficult enough to last approximately a day. This would require that the map be JIP, and being an event, that means that these JIPs must be marshalled somewhere where they absolutely cannot venture off on their own without being organized and provided transport by the overall commander, possibly via reinforcing already existing platoons. This requires clear and concise battle lines, so that the platoon commander could in turn derive a nice, pretty picture of where he needs to put men. That means an organized defense with no obvious holes in the line on the part of the AI.

                The only way I could think of would be triggers. If we make a push, we trigger a defense that spawns an AI force of equivalent size or greater than whatever numbers we push with. This way we couldn't just slam all 40 players into two squads of AI with light armor support. We'd have to force smaller contacts, until we found a weak point in the line (which is really just a weak trigger), and then shift our forces in to pound that part of the line, while leaving enough forces to maintain control over the contested areas.

                It's really just an issue of scripting as far as I see it. Maps like this have been done, and in some cases even in greater numbers, as far as rendered units are concerned. The difference is it's almost always confined to a small section of the island. This would be a fight for the whole thing, not just the cities. It'd be a fight for the countryside in the north and west sides of the map all the way back to the infinity ridgeline, AND for the towns in the east.

                Basically, it IS Evo, just on steroids and over the entire island. Stronger AI, wider spread AI, more contacts, and more support systems available to said AI (arty, air, armor).

                "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

                "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

                "Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less." - R. E. Lee

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

                  There's no way, and I mean no way that you'd be able to sustain a mission for longer than, say, 4 hours. Eventually, someone in some authority/high-priority position is going to have to stop playing, and when that happens everything will grind to a halt. If a flyboy takes an LOA, transportation stops; if a squad leader leaves, you've got a chicken without its head cut off.

                  The only way I see this working is to break each stage of the assault into a smaller and much more localized version of what you're envisioning: 30-40 players, 2-3 hours, and taking up a much smaller portion of Chernarus.

                  Ultimately, I think the major points I'm contesting are the physical span of the mission and the time behind each one.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

                    That's why ALL the leaders would have to have a training night, so that when the squad leader goes down, the next leader steps up. When the pilot goes LOA, his 2IC steps in.

                    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

                    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

                    "Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less." - R. E. Lee

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

                      I think this sounds awesome. Hopefully I have my new PC by the time you do it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

                        Why not sprawl a 24 hour or so mission into 6, 4 hour Sunday events? Have two teams face off at a pre-designed DMZ and then each gain made by each team during and each asset lost in the event would be incorporated into next Sundays mission. Moreover, each team could be given a certain number of points and each team's commander can decide which assets to purchase from them mission maker (several truck, or one helicopter?).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

                          I tried making a campaign, lets just say that ended badly. Aside from that, training nights like that just are not going to work. I wish it did, but the time dedication is just way to high.


                          I will make some missions if you tell me what to do. [Gotta try to make it work!]
                          |TG|Ghost02
                          TG Pathfinder



                          "I travel alone through the valley of the shadow of death, yet in my heart I carry no fear, for Gods hands will guide me to Truth and Honor."

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                          • #14
                            Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

                            On a related note, I have some ideas for missions but I have neither the time nor knowledge to actually make them. Are there any people good at putting them together that would be willing to toss some ideas around?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: EVENT IDEA (Need my fellow ex-servicemen's help)

                              I honestly can't see this being possible, server load would be far too great and very few people would want to stay on that long. You have to remember arma 2 is a GAME; it's something that we play during our spare time to have fun. Arma 2 isn't something we should feel committed to for more than an hour or two and an event such as this throws this out the window.

                              The only possibility is to divide this up (as previously stated) into multiple missions that span multiple weekends. I would say a MAXIMUM of 2 hours per mission, no longer.

                              Damnit Blizzard, fix ZvT already >.<
                              In Soviet Russian, Arma admins are nice to you!

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