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  • Let us put this to rest

    Everyone that was on bravo server last night will understand. For those that don't consider yourselves lucky that you where not there for the Nerd Fight(no insult intended) there where pocket protectors and pens and calculators flying everywhere!

    What is the difference between radiowaves and microwaves?

    The frequency spectrum in which they operate. Microwaves are generally in the ultra high and super high and extremely high frequency bands, e.g., UHF 300 to 3000 MHz and 3000 to 30000 MHz and 30 to 300 GHz, respectively.

    Thus, radio waves and microwaves can be used to transmit information, as such, they are synonomous. However, radio waves can be generated throughout the electromagnetic spectrum from near 0 Hz to 300 GHz, but are generally considered to be in the frequencies ranges below the infared bands. Microwave is a term used to express electromagnetic energy at higher frequencies.

    [unit][squadl][command2]

    KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

  • #2
    Re: Let us put this to rest

    Arguements about microwaves ive heard everything (i havent)
    Glad i quit early to watch TV
    To talk to me or just hurl Abuse my way get me on Xfire:Hashass1n






    I can't read, can't write, can't be an officer -NCO of the Vistula Uhlans Jan Pawlikowski

    Mute since the universe began

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Let us put this to rest

      Originally posted by Hashassin View Post
      Arguements about microwaves ive heard everything (i havent)
      Glad i quit early to watch TV
      Yeah it was interesting to say the least

      [unit][squadl][command2]

      KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Let us put this to rest

        bet it was very intresting
        To talk to me or just hurl Abuse my way get me on Xfire:Hashass1n






        I can't read, can't write, can't be an officer -NCO of the Vistula Uhlans Jan Pawlikowski

        Mute since the universe began

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Let us put this to rest

          But, Radiowaves can't be used to cook a frozen burrito!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Let us put this to rest

            Serious face palm. You fools! Youve unlocked the server now were all doomed!!

            Ill take it there where no mods on then?
            Nihility

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Let us put this to rest

              Good information Dredge. Glad I was away for yesterdays episode. Sounds like it may have been amusing though.

              |TG-Irr| OFPmonkeyspanker
              Socialism is upon us. Wake up and take back the freedom our country was founded on!

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              • #8
                Re: Let us put this to rest

                Originally posted by Dredge View Post
                Everyone that was on bravo server last night will understand. For those that don't consider yourselves lucky that you where not there for the Nerd Fight(no insult intended) there where pocket protectors and pens and calculators flying everywhere!

                What is the difference between radiowaves and microwaves?

                The frequency spectrum in which they operate. Microwaves are generally in the ultra high and super high and extremely high frequency bands, e.g., UHF 300 to 3000 MHz and 3000 to 30000 MHz and 30 to 300 GHz, respectively.

                Thus, radio waves and microwaves can be used to transmit information, as such, they are synonomous. However, radio waves can be generated throughout the electromagnetic spectrum from near 0 Hz to 300 GHz, but are generally considered to be in the frequencies ranges below the infared bands. Microwave is a term used to express electromagnetic energy at higher frequencies.
                Great that is exactly what I was saying the whole time, however I think all parties interested understood that the debate was over the speed of the waves. To be a little more general we have to first consider electromagnetic waves as a whole.

                Microwaves, radio waves, x-rays, gamma rays, infrared a even visible light are all the same thing. These are E-M waves which are quantized into wave packets know as photons which in classical physics are some times treated as partials due to particle like properties of photons (in reality everything is wave packets but that's beyond the scope of this discussion). The difference between these different types of waves is their frequencies (measured by the number of cycles the wave completes in a second which is a Hz) and wavelengths (long one cycle of the wave is) which are inversely related, typically they are grouped by frequency but either works. For example a typical wave length of green visible light is about 540nm [interesting aside the spectrum of frequencies of electromagnetic radiation which are visible to the human eye is centered around green light (526-606THz) and the human eye is most sensitive to frequency changes in this range, this is why they make NVG's to display shades of green] a typical radio wave in the UHF band has a wavelength of 1m that's a factor of 1x10^9!

                As I alluded to in my aside the human eye only sees a narrow band of these frequencies that's why we don't see all the microwaves, radar and radio waves flying around or see the heat off of hot surfaces. Since all these waves are the same only with different wavelengths and frequencies (remember frequency doesn't have anything to do with how fast the wave moves only with how fast it oscillates) they all move at the same speed, the speed of light which in a vacuum is 3x10^8 m/s.

                Now as to why some radio signals will arrive at a point slower of faster than others is more a question of electrical engineering than one of physics I can assure you that the waves themselves are moving the same speed through the same mediums. Discrepancies between radio sets especially military ones have more to do with things that happen inside the radio before the wave gets sent or after it gets received including any sort of data encryption/decryption anti-jamming measures and how each radio set sends their signals or in how the waves travel, some waves due to their wavelength can be bounced off the atmosphere and therefore do not necessitate line of sight, while others may have to be passed to relays which may cause them to take longer. But I'm no electrical engineer so you'll have to find one and ask them yourself.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Let us put this to rest

                  Night vision works on either two principals, it takes existing visible light and amplifies it to a point in which one can see clearly, or it picks up infrared (thermal energy) and produces an image of false color. The reason why NVG are green is because the human eye can pick up more shades of green than any other color.
                  |TG-6th|SirNerd

                  My Resume includes Pirate, Mercenary, and a Devil Dog, what else do you want.

                  Pain is Inevitable, Suffering is Optional.

                  When you can't run anymore, you crawl and when you can't do that, you find someone to carry you.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Let us put this to rest

                    Originally posted by Sir-Nerd View Post
                    Night vision works on either two principals, it takes existing visible light and amplifies it to a point in which one can see clearly, or it picks up infrared (thermal energy) and produces an image of false color. The reason why NVG are green is because the human eye can pick up more shades of green than any other color.
                    exactly and the reason it can pick up the most shades of green is because it is the most sensitive to changes in frequency in the green range.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Let us put this to rest

                      Originally posted by Falcon_262 View Post
                      Great that is exactly what I was saying the whole time, however I think all parties interested understood that the debate was over the speed of the waves. To be a little more general we have to first consider electromagnetic waves as a whole.

                      Microwaves, radio waves, x-rays, gamma rays, infrared a even visible light are all the same thing. These are E-M waves which are quantized into wave packets know as photons which in classical physics are some times treated as partials due to particle like properties of photons (in reality everything is wave packets but that's beyond the scope of this discussion). The difference between these different types of waves is their frequencies (measured by the number of cycles the wave completes in a second which is a Hz) and wavelengths (long one cycle of the wave is) which are inversely related, typically they are grouped by frequency but either works. For example a typical wave length of green visible light is about 540nm [interesting aside the spectrum of frequencies of electromagnetic radiation which are visible to the human eye is centered around green light (526-606THz) and the human eye is most sensitive to frequency changes in this range, this is why they make NVG's to display shades of green] a typical radio wave in the UHF band has a wavelength of 1m that's a factor of 1x10^9!

                      As I alluded to in my aside the human eye only sees a narrow band of these frequencies that's why we don't see all the microwaves, radar and radio waves flying around or see the heat off of hot surfaces. Since all these waves are the same only with different wavelengths and frequencies (remember frequency doesn't have anything to do with how fast the wave moves only with how fast it oscillates) they all move at the same speed, the speed of light which in a vacuum is 3x10^8 m/s.

                      Now as to why some radio signals will arrive at a point slower of faster than others is more a question of electrical engineering than one of physics I can assure you that the waves themselves are moving the same speed through the same mediums. Discrepancies between radio sets especially military ones have more to do with things that happen inside the radio before the wave gets sent or after it gets received including any sort of data encryption/decryption anti-jamming measures and how each radio set sends their signals or in how the waves travel, some waves due to their wavelength can be bounced off the atmosphere and therefore do not necessitate line of sight, while others may have to be passed to relays which may cause them to take longer. But I'm no electrical engineer so you'll have to find one and ask them yourself.
                      The reason some waves travel faster than others from point A to point B, Falcon, is actually far simpler than encryption, decryption, or their passage through any number of resistors. The difference in the waves that travel through these things is moot, because they're no longer waves. They're electrons traveling a medium. The only thing you can do at this point is strengthen or weaken the signal, not delay it.

                      The reason, which I would have gladly stated last night if I'd been allowed to actually talk before twenty five people cut me off, is merely in the distance the wave has to travel.

                      For example, the monopole antenna on our birds (HF range) actually bounced the waves to the ground, then to the atmosphere, then back to the ground. This process repeated until it reached the intended target. VHF, on the other hand, relies upon "Line of sight" transmissions, meaning that it can project anywhere until the horizon cuts off the signal. Other factors affect it of course, but the point is, it projects the waves in a radiating pattern. Like ripples in a pond, if you will.

                      Your major in physics gives you no monopoly on all things science. While you may know everything there is to know about string theory and relativity, this has jack diddily to do with it. This is the passage of radiation through various mediums, and by various means. Simply because one particle of radiation may travel at the same speed as another does not mean that they both have the same overall speed. Speed in this sense is the measurement of "time on target" in a sense. How long does it take particle A to travel the same distance as particle B, more to the point.

                      If particle A has to bounce from the ground to the atmosphere fifteen hundred times in a set distance, and particle B just travels straight, it's not going to reach at the same time.

                      As well, the initial argument was not the speed of one form of radio vice another, it was concerning the speed of radio waves. That was actually settled, given that radio waves passing through the atmosphere are subject to some deterioration of speed and quality, therefore making them slower than light. Radio waves passing through space, on the other hand, barring any RF interference, which certainly there may be, DO travel the speed of light. Leaving us arguing the same thing from two different angles.

                      "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

                      "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

                      "Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less." - R. E. Lee

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Let us put this to rest

                        Originally posted by Falcon_262 View Post
                        Great that is exactly what I was saying the whole time, however I think all parties interested understood that the debate was over the speed of the waves. To be a little more general we have to first consider electromagnetic waves as a whole.

                        Microwaves, radio waves, x-rays, gamma rays, infrared a even visible light are all the same thing. These are E-M waves which are quantized into wave packets know as photons which in classical physics are some times treated as partials due to particle like properties of photons (in reality everything is wave packets but that's beyond the scope of this discussion). The difference between these different types of waves is their frequencies (measured by the number of cycles the wave completes in a second which is a Hz) and wavelengths (long one cycle of the wave is) which are inversely related, typically they are grouped by frequency but either works. For example a typical wave length of green visible light is about 540nm [interesting aside the spectrum of frequencies of electromagnetic radiation which are visible to the human eye is centered around green light (526-606THz) and the human eye is most sensitive to frequency changes in this range, this is why they make NVG's to display shades of green] a typical radio wave in the UHF band has a wavelength of 1m that's a factor of 1x10^9!

                        As I alluded to in my aside the human eye only sees a narrow band of these frequencies that's why we don't see all the microwaves, radar and radio waves flying around or see the heat off of hot surfaces. Since all these waves are the same only with different wavelengths and frequencies (remember frequency doesn't have anything to do with how fast the wave moves only with how fast it oscillates) they all move at the same speed, the speed of light which in a vacuum is 3x10^8 m/s.

                        Now as to why some radio signals will arrive at a point slower of faster than others is more a question of electrical engineering than one of physics I can assure you that the waves themselves are moving the same speed through the same mediums. Discrepancies between radio sets especially military ones have more to do with things that happen inside the radio before the wave gets sent or after it gets received including any sort of data encryption/decryption anti-jamming measures and how each radio set sends their signals or in how the waves travel, some waves due to their wavelength can be bounced off the atmosphere and therefore do not necessitate line of sight, while others may have to be passed to relays which may cause them to take longer. But I'm no electrical engineer so you'll have to find one and ask them yourself.

                        OMG! What have I done? I didn't know...../cries

                        [unit][squadl][command2]

                        KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Let us put this to rest

                          Originally posted by Falcon_262 View Post
                          exactly and the reason it can pick up the most shades of green is because it is the most sensitive to changes in frequency in the green range.
                          its also the color our eyes naturally pick up the best

                          [unit][squadl][command2]

                          KnyghtMare ~You could always tell the person holding the gun to your head you would like to play on a different server...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Let us put this to rest

                            [media]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x267/nub-cake/Cool_story_bro_.jpg[/media]

                            <3 Nerd rage on the TG server. Wish you could put images in the chat lol.

                            Damnit Blizzard, fix ZvT already >.<
                            In Soviet Russian, Arma admins are nice to you!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Let us put this to rest

                              Originally posted by BarnesBL0278 View Post
                              The reason some waves travel faster than others from point A to point B, Falcon, is actually far simpler than encryption, decryption, or their passage through any number of resistors. The difference in the waves that travel through these things is moot, because they're no longer waves. They're electrons traveling a medium. The only thing you can do at this point is strengthen or weaken the signal, not delay it.

                              The reason, which I would have gladly stated last night if I'd been allowed to actually talk before twenty five people cut me off, is merely in the distance the wave has to travel.

                              For example, the monopole antenna on our birds (HF range) actually bounced the waves to the ground, then to the atmosphere, then back to the ground. This process repeated until it reached the intended target. VHF, on the other hand, relies upon "Line of sight" transmissions, meaning that it can project anywhere until the horizon cuts off the signal. Other factors affect it of course, but the point is, it projects the waves in a radiating pattern. Like ripples in a pond, if you will.

                              Your major in physics gives you no monopoly on all things science. While you may know everything there is to know about string theory and relativity, this has jack diddily to do with it. This is the passage of radiation through various mediums, and by various means. Simply because one particle of radiation may travel at the same speed as another does not mean that they both have the same overall speed. Speed in this sense is the measurement of "time on target" in a sense. How long does it take particle A to travel the same distance as particle B, more to the point.

                              If particle A has to bounce from the ground to the atmosphere fifteen hundred times in a set distance, and particle B just travels straight, it's not going to reach at the same time.

                              As well, the initial argument was not the speed of one form of radio vice another, it was concerning the speed of radio waves. That was actually settled, given that radio waves passing through the atmosphere are subject to some deterioration of speed and quality, therefore making them slower than light. Radio waves passing through space, on the other hand, barring any RF interference, which certainly there may be, DO travel the speed of light. Leaving us arguing the same thing from two different angles.
                              Barnes I don't think our two points of view are mutually exclusive and I 100% agree with your statement about speed and why some system are "faster" than others as I alluded to in the second half of my post although you are right and I did not know the actual specifics of why one would be faster than the other so I made two conjectures one based on data encryption and frequency cycling which does take time and the other based on exactly what you just said the waves getting to their destinations by different routes i.e. bouncing off the atmosphere.

                              However there is still two major misconceptions which I feel obligated to clear up, first is how you assert that the waves become electrons traveling through a medium. The only time this signal is electrons is when they are traveling through the actual hardware (the radio circuits or antenna) and even then its still a wave (but we really don't have to worry about that right now) as it moves through the atmosphere it is composed of photons not electrons even though you may treat it as a particle its not, if we were shooting electrons around everywhere we would be doing what used to be done in old school TV's shooting "cathode rays" (<- misnomer, don't really exist, well sort of but no, its complicated) around and that would not be a good thing.

                              The second thing is the fact that some how light is not effected by the same things (the atmosphere etc) that effects radio waves, in fact it is. Since light and radio waves are the same thing through all mediums they must travel the same speed namely the speed of light, what ever that happens to be.

                              Now trust me barnes I have nothing but the utmost respect for engineers and technicians of all sorts. And I really am only posing this here to help enlighten both others and myself. Knowledge for knowledge's sake is a great thing.

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