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  • I don't know boys... JMO...

    Yesterday I was able to play a couple of games with TG members, today I play a couple of games unknowns joined and ruined the damn thing... sniper jumping in a hummer on his own, taking off then getting killed within 2 minutes, others doing there own thing, it out right already ruined the game for me today... I'd like to know how many TG members have armed assault? Can we consider locking the server with a password for TG members and invited guest only. (I know a few people new to TG that haven't become SM's yet, because they want to see how TG works first, especially with Armed Assault.

    If we play our cards right, we just may get a few new dedicated SM's out of Armed Assault, but not if they see what I just saw...

    I'm going to my 360, till some TG members show up in TS for some games.

    JMO, posted for discussion.
    Magnum |TG-18th|


    We stand between chaos and order, evil and good, despair and hope - we are the Thin Blue Line, and we will never be broken.


  • #2
    Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

    What I think we have to remember is this....alot of the guys that are playing this are coming from the BF series...which as we all know is COMPLETELY different from ArmA.

    In my case...I haven't been gaming seriously for about for about 4 months...plus I have basically no experience with OFP..

    So my point is this...the learning curve is steep with many of the guys that have just bought ArmA...I know it is for me.

    It's gonna take awhile for guys like me to get our stuff straight. I ask for patience...hehehe

    Having said that, what Magnum described with the sniper driving off CAN'T happen on our server..period.

    thanks,
    Chappie

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

      We've still got to get our admin team in place with admin tools that can help remove the players that don't want to play as a team. We also will have players that are going to have a learning curve, not only in the game, but how we play at TG. I'm sure we'll also (hopefully) get to a point where we have enough TG regulars for multiple servers and / or we have password nights.

      Let's use this initial period to recruit and train new players in Armed Assault and the TG style of playing.
      |TG-12th| asch
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

        Originally posted by Chappie View Post
        What I think we have to remember is this....alot of the guys that are playing this are coming from the BF series...which as we all know is COMPLETELY different from ArmA.

        In my case...I haven't been gaming seriously for about for about 4 months...plus I have basically no experience with OFP..

        So my point is this...the learning curve is steep with many of the guys that have just bought ArmA...I know it is for me.

        It's gonna take awhile for guys like me to get our stuff straight. I ask for patience...hehehe

        Having said that, what Magnum described with the sniper driving off CAN'T happen on our server..period.

        thanks,
        Chappie
        Yeah i saw a lot of the "driving at full speed into the enemy force" in the first few days.
        I'm under the impression though that its getting a bit better as players acclimatise to the game.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

          As with any game we have to educate the masses on how we play. This has been a problem with each new game and people come around to our way after a little time.


          18th SF Operational Detachment Delta

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

            Like RO, Armed Assault attracts a much different crowd than BF2 or something, which means you'll get a lot of craziness in the weeks after it comes out. This is also complicated by the American Release, which hasn't happened yet, so lots of us are holding off until we can get it here officially instead of downloading it or something.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

              :icon_cool

              Although I have not yet renewed my SM status, nor do I own ArmA yet, I wanted to support Magnum's position on this.

              Our server should be password locked. Perhaps make that password available in the forums so that non-TG members have to at least stop by our forums and see what we are about before jumping in.

              Even with all the admin tools available, all it takes is one yahoo to blow the whole mission and ruin everyone elses fun.

              Let's see what the crystal ball says about the future of an unpassword protected server shall we?

              Example: Your five man ranger team has been para dropped 2 clicks SE of a rural village in North Korea. A 2 man flight crew has sought refuge there and are awaiting friendly troops for extract. Word of their existance has made it to North Korean military officials who are sending a squad to investigate. Time is of the essence. Your Ranger squad will be heavily outnumbered if discovered operating within this restricted border.

              Magnum, En4, Apo, Asch, and -=p0wnMaster""F""=- Parachute silently to the infiltration zone in the early dawn hours. Magnum, having carefully examined satellite photos of the area, knows that there is an abandoned vehicle to the west by a broken down farmhouse. It his intention to use that vehicle to expedite extraction should things get loud and hairy. He orders his men to proceed westward cautiously, to investigate said vehicle. -=p0wnMaster""F""=- breaks into a full break sprint towards the truck before the other Rangers can even react. Magnum whispers tearsly and angrily over TS ordering -=p0wnMaster""F""=- to stay low and quiet and return to the group. Of course, -=p0wnMaster""F""=- is not even on TS and ignores all text orders to halt. He races to the truck and, without waiting for teamates, climbs behind the wheel and floors the gas pedal towards the village. Whilst driving, -=p0wnMaster""F""=- types out quickly to the rest of his team "C'Mon F$#@^&* n00bs! Let's go kick some @$$!!!"

              As soon as the vehicle hits the village perimeter, gunfire erupts from everywhere. -=p0wnMaster""F""=- is killed by one of the first bullets. -=p0wnMaster""F""=- types "What??? No F%$#@*(^% respawns on this crappy server?????" -=p0wnMaster""F""=- Disconnects.

              The North Korean Squad quickly takes the village, captures the flight team and calls in heavily armored reinforcements. The mission is dead. The four remaining Rangers look at eachother in disbelief.

              "Wanna try again?" Magnum begs over TS.

              "Sure" everyone replies in unison.

              n00b_Killer{GBC} joins the server

              He quickly types: "Wait until you guys see my 133t sk1llz!! I dare any of you big l0s3rs to get even half of my kills!! Let's gogogogogogogogogogooooooo!"



              En4 Disconnected

              Magnum Disconnected

              Asch Disconnected

              Apo sets server password


              :icon19: :icon19: :icon19:


              -

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

                I would strongly suggest that you create a password for the server that is listed in the TG ArmA forum. If people want to play, they can come here, get the password, and join the server.

                This will prevent a large number of the "I'm just joining a random game" crowd from ruining the games.

                If you go completely passwordless, you will have a terrible time of things - guaranteed. Take a tip from the current 'big name' OFP groups. Running without a password in ArmA is going to be a complete disaster.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

                  If the big influx is the US release in March (?) then thats 3 months to organise everything;
                  • Server settings
                  • Admin team
                  • Server rules
                  • SOPs

                  It should be possible to set up a smaller player base, that play the right way, before the big US influx. So that the March new players can see what the game can be and join in or get w/k/b for undermining sever rules/quality.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

                    Would it not limit our recruiting ability to have the server permanently locked? From my experience the best way to recruit new members is to allow them to play in our environment. How many new BF2 guys have you seen sign up to our forums AFTER they try our server?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

                      Originally posted by Obi View Post
                      Would it not limit our recruiting ability to have the server permanently locked? From my experience the best way to recruit new members is to allow them to play in our environment. How many new BF2 guys have you seen sign up to our forums AFTER they try our server?
                      Have the MOTD say "Go to TacticalGamer.com for the server password", or reference the Teamspeak channel, or whatever.

                      You'll regret running the server without a password, mark my words. If you're trying to get a good ArmA playerbase at TG, doing it on a password-less server is not the way to go about it. The downsides far outweigh any positives.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

                        I first joined TG just as it was transitioning from an open community of gamers to a membership-based community structure. Since joining, I have noticed a steady increase in isolationism and impatience towards other gaming styles from many people at TG. I understand and have often felt the same way. But when I first stumbled upon TG, there were people not only tasked with bringing me up to speed, but people who were truly interested in using their time to transitioning pubbies into the TG ethos. Members regularly played together or alone on public servers, promoting TG through their superior skills and coordination. While this was not required, it was widely felt by the community that promotion of TG and attraction of new players was each members' responsibility.

                        These days there is some animosity among the more "hardcore" tactical sim elements in TG towards the BF crowd particularly because the more sim-oriented community has dropped off considerably - so much so that it is very difficult to get decent numbers together for a game.

                        While we remember TG's Ghost Recon lineage as one of excellence in the tactical, team-oriented field of coop, we shouldn't forget that the dedicated coop was always played alongside an abundance of more casual coop and multiplayer GR. Those who most enjoyed the intensity of serious coop play (often myself) were willing to compromise and play pistols- or grenades-only multiplayer, experiment with strange things in coop, and more.

                        We shouldn't forget that what was achieved was not achieved overnight. In a qualitative and quantitative sense, the ethos of the Ghost Recon community no longer exists at TG. I believe the dwindling community of tactical-sim gamers at TG is largely a result of this loss. Unless ArmA is to be played irregularly and with low numbers, this ethos will have to be reconstructed. That means a certain amount of dedication to recruitment, patience for the imposition of converting pubbies, and a willingness to make some sacrifices in gameplay in order to focus on the development of community.

                        I understand the impulse to password-protect the server and the frustration of seeing games ruined by pubbies. I would agree with password-protecting the server for particular events or at particular times. A password-protected server, however, is a vote for isolation. And every hour played behind that isolation is an hour lost recruiting. For those that are truly hoping to see ArmA take off at TG, I hope the attraction of new players will be seen as integral to ArmA's long-term success and will be undertaken with a certain amount of determination. For all the potential this game has, it can not be realized without bodies to populate that huge island.
                        [volun]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

                          H-hour I understand and agree with your comments... but I'm not advocating isolation, I just don't understand why we can't have ALL game servers passworded, that way it stops the players who just randomly see 4 or 5 people on the server and then join, then within minutes ruin what TG is all about.

                          If everyone knows that the password to our servers is posted in our forums and open for all to see, at least they have to do a little work before joining the games.

                          Yes, I admit... I'm "a little pissed" at the direction TG took after my membership 2 years ago, I joined because of this dedication to teamwork and tactics, and be apart of an elite set of gamers is what I wanted... now the tactical has gone out of TG for dare I say run and guns like the BF series. (not saying BF can't be played with teamwork and tactics... but the BF series is NOT in the same class as classics like GR, OFP, SWAT, and now AA and GRAW.)

                          again JMO, and I fully accept that my opinion my not be well received. I still love ya. ;)
                          Magnum |TG-18th|


                          We stand between chaos and order, evil and good, despair and hope - we are the Thin Blue Line, and we will never be broken.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

                            Originally posted by H-Hour View Post
                            I understand the impulse to password-protect the server and the frustration of seeing games ruined by pubbies. I would agree with password-protecting the server for particular events or at particular times. A password-protected server, however, is a vote for isolation. And every hour played behind that isolation is an hour lost recruiting. For those that are truly hoping to see ArmA take off at TG, I hope the attraction of new players will be seen as integral to ArmA's long-term success and will be undertaken with a certain amount of determination. For all the potential this game has, it can not be realized without bodies to populate that huge island.
                            I don't think you understand the difference between GR or similar games and OFP/ArmA.

                            While what you're saying is nice in theory, in actual real-world practice with ArmA you are going to run into some serious hurdles. Password-protecting the server is not isolationist if you make it possible to find out the password by visiting the forum or getting on TS. If you password-protected it and required every member to have a TG subscription or whatever, yes, that would be bad. Making it so that a random person can't just join up (with JIP), grab an empty slot, and TK people, is not a bad thing at all.

                            I am speaking from two years of OFP multiplayer experience - one of them as the founder and leader of ShackTactical. The gameplay we have, and the community we have, could never have established itself and grown to what it is now if we had done an open, password-free server for something like ArmA with the JIP. Guaranteed, no questions asked.

                            You can believe me now and take steps to keep the TG server pure and a good environment, or you can wait and be griefed by every random jackass on the internet who sees a playercount on TG and decides that he'd like to just randomly jump on and ruin people's good times.

                            ArmA/OFP is NOT like other games. If you do not have experience with OFP, I don't think this is really going to sink in for you until you've played a good amount of ArmA. Making comparisons to Ghost Recon or any other game, well.. that's not accurate. You will NOT gain a community by running as a pub server. You WILL be griefed. You WILL have people quit out of frustration and not come back after a mission they've spent a half-hour or more on is ruined by a random person connecting, shooting all his teammates, and disconnecting right afterwards.

                            Magnum was right. Having a password is an absolutely critical element to the success of ArmA with TG. If you want to have a non-password day or two, by all means, go for it. I think as time progresses you'll see it become less and less popular with the TG crowd, as everyone will rather spend their time on the server for scheduled, password-locked sessions where the gameplay is the way it should be.

                            You don't need a huuuuuuuuuge community to get a very enjoyable turnout in ArmA or OFP. In the year that ShackTac has been around (and the sister group, GoonTac, which has been playing with us for many months now), we've gone from small games of 10-15 people to weekly turnouts of 30-40 players on our scheduled Saturday sessions, and have maxed out at 56 or so people IIRC. Bear in mind that this is with a large percentage of our playerbase and potentially interested playerbase waiting for ArmA before they return to the group.

                            If we can do it as a small community, TacticalGamer should be able to replicate if not surpass that as well. However, you're going to be best off learning from my experiences, or the experiences of the other big OFP groups like CiA and Zeus, if you want to have less stress/growing pains and more fun right off the bat.

                            You need a password. You will regret not having it. Learn from the experience of others instead of trying to fight the reality of the situation and ultimately fail.

                            If you have a password-protected server, I'll do my part to encourage ShackTac players to give the TG server a shot whenever we're not doing our own sessions. If it's a pub server, the odds of any ShackTac/GoonTac people coming by are slim at best.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I don't know boys... JMO...

                              Good discussion.

                              The idea of having a couple of weekly "open" (no password) server nights, mainly for recruiting purposes, makes sense to me. I don't see why this should be a problem, as the remainder of the time would give Tactical Gamers (and folks from other similar communities, if they felt like joining) the opportunities to have solid, organized games with like-minded players.


                              P.S. Somebody should TASER Magnum (again). :D

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