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  • Evolution

    Right, I've been feeling this way for a while now, and haven't really been on the ArmA server because of it - but the fact that we now officially play 24/7 Evolution and even our co-op nights are played on it is the straw that breaks the camel's back. A lot of the following rant is taken from a post I made on TFR.

    If ArmA is the future, then the future is not playing Evolution 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. It irritates me so much it's unbelievable. At present I'm staying away from ArmA during the day and playing at night with Shacktac, because no TG players seem to be willing to play tight coop missions instead of grabbing a cobra or an LGB and messing around for an hour or so. Any joy the infantry combat could bring is balanced against generally poor organisation, and the fact that when I die (which is often, given the ridiculous amounts of AI that are designed around people fighting, dying, respawning and fighting again) I have to either a) spend a considerable amount of time getting back to the fighting b) grab a Little Bird solely for the transport of my squad, and will be forced to leave it near the town as there isn't a dedicated helo pilot (unless NKato is on, and that's a whole other can of worms) or c) become not a transport pilot - but a packhorse, transporting a steady stream of people to the same LZ over and over again until we've arrited the ridiculous amount of AI down to manageable levels.

    Evo really, really annoys me. It isn't really a coop mission at all, it's a sandbox in which rare glimpses of co-op are seen. I've seen the platoon leadership in action, and it's a minor step in the right direction, but it's still such a waste. Even when we've got two squads running the disorganisation is astonishing. I remember being on TS and seeing a squad leader say "Oh, there's the other squad" like he was really surprised to see them.

    In ArmA, your life means something. This isn't deathmatch. Respawning takes away a considerable portion of the realism that can be applied to playing online, because the ONLY consequence of your actions is having to spend 5 mins in the back of a humvee. Killed your entire squad with a grenade? No problem, just respawn and do it all over again. Battles are not decided through tactical prowess, but by sheer bloody-mindedness. Moreover, this the ONLY WAY TO SUCCEED, due to the insane numbers of AI. If you throw your life at an objective for long enough, eventually you succeed. I know that at least one other respected TG member feels the same way, and does not play TG ArmA as a result.

    I don't even know what the point of posting this is. But it's insanely disappointing to see a game that meshes so perfectly with the TG way played with less care for realism and tactical gaming than PRM.

  • #2
    Re: Evolution

    "Evo really, really annoys me. It isn't really a coop mission at all, it's a sandbox in which rare glimpses of co-op are seen" - mingmong

    that qoute says alot.
    Shack Tactical for the win. or so it would seem... this is one of those things where only time will tell and my time isnt going to be much apart of it anymore. at least not TG arma, TG PR is more organized most of the time sadly. I'll probably stay active in these forums, or during the day grab some people for co op when im board because shacktac is active in the evenings but umm, the gameplay isnt much fun as a "deathmatch super free for all take a cobra and smacktard around all day not to mention wreck it and not clean it up before grabbing the other one" gameplay style.

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    • #3
      Re: Evolution

      hmm... seems kinda harsh given the state of things. I, like many others, just got the game a few days ago and have been quickly climbing the learning curve on the Evo server. I think you just need to take a deep breath, relax, and look at it with some context - the game is VERY VERY early in its life cycle. It's been out in the US for what.. a few weeks? BF2 is nearing it's second YEAR of game play... PR players arent trying to figure out 300 keybinds... they're working on teamwork elements and coordination. The player base is growing VERY quickly and all these new folks (me included) NEED the evolution server. I think over the next few weeks you'll see a big shift towards COOP type missions and a constant improvement on the coordination side of things!



      In other words, give me (and my fellow wrong-button-pushing, realism-loving, team-work-aspiring friends) a chance!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Evolution

        Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post
        hmm... seems kinda harsh given the state of things. I, like many others, just got the game a few days ago and have been quickly climbing the learning curve on the Evo server. I think you just need to take a deep breath, relax, and look at it with some context - the game is VERY VERY early in its life cycle. It's been out in the US for what.. a few weeks? BF2 is nearing it's second YEAR of game play... PR players arent trying to figure out 300 keybinds... they're working on teamwork elements and coordination. The player base is growing VERY quickly and all these new folks (me included) NEED the evolution server. I think over the next few weeks you'll see a big shift towards COOP type missions and a constant improvement on the coordination side of things!



        In other words, give me (and my fellow wrong-button-pushing, realism-loving, team-work-aspiring friends) a chance!
        This is in no way a dig at any people who play ArmA. This is a rant at Evolution, nothing more, and please don't take it as any sort of reflection on the players because it's not, in any way. The fact is that while you're new to the game, people have been playing Evolution for months.

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        • #5
          Re: Evolution

          Originally posted by mingmong View Post
          This is in no way a dig at any people who play ArmA. This is a rant at Evolution, nothing more, and please don't take it as any sort of reflection on the players because it's not, in any way. The fact is that while you're new to the game, people have been playing Evolution for months.
          no dig taken :)


          My point is that yes, while many people (you included?) have been playing EVO for months and are ready for that "next level", there's another big group just getting hooked on ArmA that aren't there yet - let them get their months of EVO play in and catch up with you :)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Evolution

            Are we ever going to move on from Evo, though? Honestly?


            I mean, if someone like PanzerHans or Strag came in and said "Yes, we are using Evolution to break in all the new people from Combat Operations and once they are happy with the game then we will be moving off Evolution" then I wouln't have posted this thread. But I don't think that the view that Evolution is a temporary thing is the prevailing viewpoint at all.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Evolution

              1st off, I agree Evolution is not the end all to any future for ArmA, actually it is counterproductive to ArmA, IMHO. We have debated this topic countless times before and there is one simple solution, STOP playing it. Here is the deal, we have two servers setup, one with Evo and one for Co-Op. Everybody here complains that they hate Evo, yet those same names are the ones on Evo every night. Holy crap it is unbelievable the ungrateful people around here. TG has given you a choice of what style of play you would like. Versus using one or the other, or even better both, you sit here and gripe about just the one. Populate server 2 and then we can talk about setting both up for Co-Op and removing Evo. In the meantime the Evo server is almost always ranked in the top 5 of people online, it attracts people, period. The concept is to get them over to TG and convert them to our style of play over on the Co-Op server and grow from there.

              The only thing that keeps the Evo server going is the players that stay there. We have so much to offer on the Co-Op, yet few realize it. I have seen a bunch of threads on the topic of TvsT, well we have had that for a while, yet nobody is on that server to ever find that out. We have several different types of Co-Op missions loaded, yet people continue to complain we have none. WTH?

              ArmA is NOT//NOT BF2, yet some of you want it to be. If you yearn for some style of play that resembles that, than go play one of its Mods. If you want to play a more realistic simulation, get on the Co-Op server.
              "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

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              • #8
                Re: Evolution

                The reason we are running Evolution so heavy ATM is due to the ease it introduces new players to the Armed Assault game. TG is working on its own mission which will be in a campaign style, so we hope to be able to utilize that when it is finished.

                Evolution is a positive contributor at the moment as is allows the new US players who bought the game at 1.07 to familiarize themselves with the game and its workings, and with that we grow a player base that allows us to run TVTs and different COOP scenarios that allows a bit more variety somewhere further down the road.
                --
                VI VI VI - the number of the beast

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                • #9
                  Re: Evolution

                  There is a way...a painful way..but it's a way to get others into the COOP server.. Start Playing on it... You may be (and I know I have been) the only one on there for awhile.. but others will join. In reading the forums there are a large group of users who feel the same as you do. And they, probably like I, check the COOP server first, when getting my ARMA time it..and if there are others on it I will usually go that route.
                  Again..It's not pleasant..and you maybe a single player alot of the times... but we gotta bait folks into the COOP... I think folks are playing EVO because it's EASY to get into and there are lots of folks on it. Turn the population to the other server...and in a few month people will say... "What was that crazy map on ARAMA... you know the one like BF2/3/4 ??"

                  Just my 2 cents..
                  |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                  ..now where did I put my keys?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Evolution

                    Originally posted by mingmong View Post
                    "Yes, we are using Evolution to break in all the new people from Combat Operations and once they are happy with the game then we will be moving off Evolution" .

                    In Fact I see EVO Play heading in THAT MORE MATURE DIRECTION as we speak (well not this afternoon but you get the idea).. we have Sqaud leaders breaking large squads into Fireteams, Platoon Commanders controlling multiple Squads, Appropriate use of TS channels and Channel Commanders... It's happening right now..honest.. (well..not right now..)
                    And when that Mature group of players say.."You know..I've cleared Corazol for the 100th time... Whats new??" .then they jump in with the Other folks who already know of COOP Goodness on the Pub server...
                    |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                    ..now where did I put my keys?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Evolution

                      I would like to point out 1 giant fact that is often looked over in all of this. 100% of the time, I repeat 100% of the time I have logged into the Evo server and asked for people to join me on the COOP server I have gotten a positive response leading to about 10 people on the COOP server. While it's not a full platoon, it is still plenty to work with. So the real problem boils down to people not speaking up and not encouraging people to move servers. The admins are not going to be on 24/7 and just waiting to invite people to the other server. Take some initiative, log into the evo server. Mention that you are looking for players to run COOP and players will join. It's amazing after the initial group how many often join once they see other people on the server.

                      So while ShackTac does not run evolution dedicated on one server, we too have a server loaded with missions that does not get used. When I load up the game and see folks in the other server I always ask what is up and see what is going on. Sometime it's testing, other it is people wanting COOP missions. Take some initiative and join the COOP server to seed the server like any other gaming server.

                      Evolution is always going to be more popular to the masses because it is a casual way to play Armed Assault. It caters to those who don't want to sit around as a seagull for half an hour when they get hit by a random grenade.

                      Mingmong, no where in your post do I see where you mention you sat on the COOP server waiting for others to join. Where you invited people to go from Evo to COOP or where you joined TS and just asked others to go. It annoys me too that some people don't realize Evolution is not all that is Armed Assault, but until you say you've honestly tried to get people to switch servers I don't see why you would feel the need to start this thread.
                      |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                      XBL GT: Khan58

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Evolution

                        There are so many great things Evolution mission accomplished. List is long and I have little time to put everything here. I will just mention the obvious one. Its sandbox nature has been allowing lots of new players to get comfortable with highly complex game mechanics and controls of ArmA. We owe Evolution a lot when it comes to numbers playing and loving ArmA on TG.

                        Evolution and its designer deserves a big kudos and thanks for what it has done for ArmA. This is my personal opinion.

                        Yes, there is much more to ArmA than a single mission called Evolution. And you are not helping others to see that side by just expressing a disapproval for Evolution.

                        To make a line shorter, there are two ways. You either try to cut it into pieces or draw a longer line next to it. I believe TG-spirit is the latter one. Here is a TG wiki project I invite you to contribute. Lets start drawing that longer line.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Evolution

                          I hated Evolution at first as well, since I was playing it on other servers and it seemed like playing BF2 co-op against AI. People were all over the place just doing their own thing with no coordination with each other..

                          But once TG started playing it, and modified it to be unranked, then things completely changed.. In the past week that I've been playing it, I've come on the server with everyone organized into squads, making use of the TS channels and channel commander functions. 28 people on the server, all playing together, all coordinating air, ground, armor and repair support. It's an awesome sight to behold.

                          It's not quite on the level of organized structure that ShackTac see's every saterday night... But it's also run 24/7 and doesnt require the constant attention and meticulous planning while 40 people wait idle for the mission to start.
                          TG Regular
                          TGU Staff
                          ShackTac FNG





                          TGU Rotary Wing Instructors
                          Evil Koala
                          LeftSkidLow

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                          • #14
                            Re: Evolution

                            Khan has an excellent point !

                            Evolution can be used as a lobby, a meeting room. While you are waiting for people to join TG ArmA, hop in and warm up. Form your squad, practice procedures and tactics, welcome new players...

                            And then get some of those people to our other server to play other coop missions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Evolution

                              Originally posted by John CANavar View Post
                              We owe Evolution a lot when it comes to numbers playing and loving ArmA on TG.
                              just food for thought. the game itself was never designed to run Evolution. Evolution is just a popular ADDON, by a guy with too much time on his hands. the game was designed around Co-op, TvT, and the likes.

                              1. Load a map
                              2. find your slots
                              3. load into game look at the map
                              4. go over strategy and loadouts
                              5. execute
                              6. find another of the 20,000 plus missions available on the internet. and repeat

                              give or take, there's a rough example of what ArmA is about.

                              frankly i find,

                              Clear Paraiso!
                              good job!
                              Clear Somato!
                              Good job!
                              clear Dalores!
                              good job

                              pretty boring
                              Last edited by stickyjeans69; 06-30-2007, 05:32 PM.

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