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  • Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

    I may be a total noob with ArmA/EVo, but I understand that:
    -Evo is a mod of ArmA
    -A number of people do not like Evo

    I have only played Evo, manly due to the fact that people I know play there and I need all the help I can get as I learn this game.

    I have seen many threads about the virtues of ArmA over Evo (and vice versa), but so far, I have yet to figure out what the heck are the real differences. Could anyone write a clear-cut, OBJECTIVE description of the differences so I can understand what eveyone keeps talking about with such rancor.

    I assume its like vanilla BF2 versus PR, but that is my only point of reference for a FPS games. However, it would be odd that people would choose a vanilla version of a game over a mod, so I assume that there is more to it.

    Please explain? (nicely)

  • #2
    Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

    These have been my very limited experiences.

    Built-In SP Camaign - I tried a couple of missions but nothing really grabbed me.

    Evo - Lots of it, I like it b/c it is persistent and slow. It has so many elements there seems to be something for everybody. Better still is that since anyone can jump in anytime, squad up and be with his unit usually within 5-10 mins, it makes for easy transitions. Yes, it doesn't fill all of ArmA's potential but it is an overall great mission.

    MP Coop Missions - I've only done a couple of these but they were fantastic. Excellent planning, coordination, and teamwork. Because there is for the most part only one mission (with various primary and secondary triggerable objectives) it allowed us to focus as a team. It is also nice to see other respawn (body, SL, not at all) and equipment options that different coop missions have. But, again in my limited experience, late arrivals may have a hard time catching up depending on the mission and available transport and cannot always see objectives on the map that existed before they joined.

    If Evo didn't exist, I could be very happy doing nothing but coop missions and vise-versa, but it is nice to have the choice. Both have advantages and disadvantages...but the overall advantage is that both allow so much variety that you never play the same game twice!

    Both have great teamwork potential, but different flavors of it. Evo when full is a massive operation that required broad-scale cooperation to be remotely successfull. Co-op to me seems more focused on your immediate team (at least the missions I've played) and so very satisfying there as well.
    LoyalGuard

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    • #3
      Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

      Think of Evo as a sandbox mission of ArmA. A mission *could* be anything from a very small scripted event to a "Capture the Island" persistent world. Evolution is just a persistent co-op mission with many features programmed specifically for it that are not available in the default ArmA.

      I think the negativity you hear from people towards evo is twofold: 1. they may be wanting a more structured "hard" mission typical of OFP where there are limited or no respawns or 2. they have played evolution way too much and are tired of the lack of specific story or details.

      IMHO evo is very nice because the sandbox nature allows squads to be quickly formed and deployed without the usual sitting around for a mission to load and then spending the first 15 minutes getting people organized before actually doing anything. Evo does suffer from this by NOT supporting a more detailed approach to ArmA that some players desire. This is exactly why we have a separate co-op server setup and those player expressing negativity towards evo should be encouraged to arrange events and drive the population to that server as they see fit.


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      • #4
        Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

        Evolution is a mission in ArmA, not a mod.

        The main difference between Evolution and "normal" gameplay is that Evo provides you with an overwhelming array of assets to get the mission completed with. You have multiple CAS aircraft, resupply and repair, all the ground vehicles in high quantity, and unlimited respawns. You fight at your leisure, against enemies who are primarily defensive in nature, with the knowledge that you can die, respawn, and be back into the action quickly. If you can't take a city with infantry, you grab armor. If you can't take it with armor, you grab air. The US forces completely overmatch the defensive North Sahrani forces and there is no real penalty for death aside from that you have to spend a few minutes flying or driving back to the fight after you've respawned.

        Evolution is ArmA for the masses, and it's great for pick-up servers where people may not know each other (pubs) or servers where a small group wants to practice various skills. It is useful for getting new people up to speed on the game thanks to the lower initial entry barrier, and it's good for practicing general tactics and teamwork in a relatively low-risk and low-stress environment. For new players it is a useful sandbox way to get into the game and learn rapidly.

        Non-Evo gameplay is typically much more demanding. You have limited assets, limited ammo, and typically just one life - the one you're "living" at the mission start. The scenarios are well-defined and thanks to the tighter focus, they are able to take advantage of much better scripting and mission design, which naturally results in more challenging combat. Unlike Evo, you can lose. Having a teammate die is significant - they won't be coming back on the Respawn Littlebird or anything like that.

        Non-Evo almost always results in much richer scenarios than Evo. The missions can be more elaborately crafted, the balance can be tighter (since there are only set vehicles and weapons in the scenario), the focus is tighter and the combat more dense and intense (take the same playercount that is spread out all over an Evo session and condense it into a smaller area), and so on and so forth. It's a totally different style of play. I personally find it to be infinitely more rewarding than the endless "Capture _____, then move on and capture the next city with its generic defenses" cycle that Evo tends to result in.

        There is a place for Evo, no doubt, but it's something that has very real limitations and earns most of its value as a training tool for newer players, or for sandbox mucking around in various ArmA concepts.

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        • #5
          Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

          Please define Co-op, as by my defintion, Evolution is a co-op type of game. To me CoOP is humans join together vs an AI. Multiplayer would be human vs human(ala BF2) and single player would be a human with or without AI bots versus AI.

          I understand that Evo primary feature is a campaign style series of missions in a persistant world. So, if I went to a ArmA server, I would join or launch a mission from a list, but after that single mission, the game would end and I could load another?

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          • #6
            Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

            Originally posted by Donagel View Post
            Please define Co-op, as by my defintion, Evolution is a co-op type of game.
            It is coop, but it's such a dramatically different style of coop that it's referred to as "Evo" and 'normal' coop is referred to as simply "coop".

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            • #7
              Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

              As I undersand it the coop missions (non evo) vary in size and open slots. Some missions have space for 20 humans and some have space for 4.

              I played a coop mission the other night that had only 4 of us going against a slew of enemies. We were on a spec op operation to destroy AA assets and infiltrated dressed like the enemy. Only after we blew the satchels did we encounter enemy fire...and lots of it....great fun.

              My gripe with Evo is it's expansiveness. It's hard to get a small focused team working together for long periods of time. People drop out or drop in and if you lose the command element and noone wants to step up the unit basically disbands...Iv'e had that happen over and over again.

              The coop missions are focused and I find it easier to keep small team cohesiveness....my .02 cents.
              sigpic
              |TG-1st|Grunt
              ARMA Admin (retired)
              Pathfinder-Spartan 5

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              • #8
                Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

                Originally posted by Donagel View Post
                So, if I went to a ArmA server, I would join or launch a mission from a list, but after that single mission, the game would end and I could load another?
                Yep..exactly...
                |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                ..now where did I put my keys?

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                • #9
                  Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

                  Donagel,

                  I have only one thing to add. Playing Evolution on a random public server and playing it on TG are not the same thing.

                  Dslyecxi defined public Evolution play on his post. TG doesnt play the game like that.

                  We care for our lives, transportation of troops from main base to front line after respawn is an organized and planned procedure, sometimes taking 20 min, carried out by dedicated transport units. We make detailed plans, use map markers and in-game time, use standard inter-squad communication protocols.

                  We have special forces, airborne infantry, mechanized infantry, armor, close air support, air force, transport units, all grouped in their respective teamspeak channels, coordinating with each other to achieve objectives.

                  Welcome to TACTICAL GAMER Evolution Server !

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

                    Check out these topics to see how serious, methodical and tactical Evolution is played on Tactical Gamer.

                    Discussion on Teamspeak Integration into the Game

                    AAR / Operation-tightrope

                    AAR / The Battle of Cayo

                    AAR / Tuesday-06-26-07

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

                      Originally posted by John CANavar View Post
                      Dslyecxi defined public Evolution play on his post. TG doesnt play the game like that.
                      That doesn't change any of the gameplay realities I described here:
                      The main difference between Evolution and "normal" gameplay is that Evo provides you with an overwhelming array of assets to get the mission completed with. You have multiple CAS aircraft, resupply and repair, all the ground vehicles in high quantity, and unlimited respawns. You fight at your leisure, against enemies who are primarily defensive in nature, with the knowledge that you can die, respawn, and be back into the action quickly. If you can't take a city with infantry, you grab armor. If you can't take it with armor, you grab air. The US forces completely overmatch the defensive North Sahrani forces and there is no real penalty for death aside from that you have to spend a few minutes flying or driving back to the fight after you've respawned.
                      ..which is contrasted against normal coop gameplay:

                      Non-Evo gameplay is typically much more demanding. You have limited assets, limited ammo, and typically just one life - the one you're "living" at the mission start. The scenarios are well-defined and thanks to the tighter focus, they are able to take advantage of much better scripting and mission design, which naturally results in more challenging combat. Unlike Evo, you can lose. Having a teammate die is significant - they won't be coming back on the Respawn Littlebird or anything like that.

                      Non-Evo almost always results in much richer scenarios than Evo. The missions can be more elaborately crafted, the balance can be tighter (since there are only set vehicles and weapons in the scenario), the focus is tighter and the combat more dense and intense (take the same playercount that is spread out all over an Evo session and condense it into a smaller area), and so on and so forth. It's a totally different style of play.
                      Anyhow, point of the matter... TG may play Evo differently from the average pub server, but at the end of the day it's still Evo, and it's still Evo gameplay mechanics, Evo design decisions, Evo enemies & behavior, Evo gear quantities & abundance, etc etc. Donagel asked for the difference between Evo and normal coop, and the differences have little to do with how any one particular group approaches the situation. You can play TDM or CTF in ArmA as tactically as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still CTF/TDM. Evo is Evo, normal coop is normal coop.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

                        Originally posted by Dslyecxi View Post
                        Donagel asked for the difference between Evo and normal coop, and the differences have little to do with how any one particular group approaches the situation.
                        You gave him technical details whereas I described him the TG experience. One without the other is only half of the picture so I disagree with your "little to do" statement. It makes all the difference where you are playing a game.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

                          Originally posted by John CANavar View Post
                          You gave him technical details whereas I described him the TG experience. One without the other is only half of the picture so I disagree with your "little to do" statement. It makes all the difference where you are playing a game.
                          I'm failing to see your point here. TG playing normal coop would be compared to TG playing Evo, correct? Thus, the technical aspects of it are what is important. Correct? Thus, I described the things that are relevant here. I did not think that the OP was making a comparison between Evo on pubs, Evo on TG, coops on pubs, and coop on TG.

                          TG plays Evo "tactically". That's cool, and that's the way to play it if you're going to play it. TG would play any other coop "tactically" as well, I would assume, so we can eliminate that aspect right there because it's a common aspect, right? Or am I missing something here?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

                            Lets leave it to Donagel to take what he wants from this discussion. I guess we all did a good job providing answers from different angles.

                            You are right, TG would and is playing any other coop tactically but that's not a reason to drop Evolution.

                            Evolution is still the best coop mission to:

                            a) meet with other coop players, organize and jump to our second server to play other coop missions. For the experienced ArmA player, Evolution is a lobby.

                            b) welcome new players into the complex (=steep learning curve) and epic world of Arma,

                            c) develop and practice squad and platoon level procedures and tactics.

                            In my opinion, Tactical Gamer has found an excellent balance right there. We welcome new players with Evo server. Experienced players help these newcomers and turn them into "hooked" ArmA players (Once you play ArmA and play it TG-way, there is no turning back). Our second server takes it even further and provides a wide spectrum of MP missions, from coop to TvT.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Clarification on EVO vs ArmA

                              As a newcomer to TG but having engaged in Evo since it parachuted into view I offer another opinion.

                              First off I was a member of a UK based Clan with a world wide membership.
                              We were very much the ethics of TG but not to the same depth.
                              I remember when Evo arrived it blew the socks of everybody but I did begin grow somewhat bored with it.
                              I tried doing sigle support ops in front of the main force etc but the snap seemed to have gone.
                              I had stumbled across Dslyecxi and thought his stuff fantastic in fact it was through his forum I found TG.
                              Now not once have I become bored with Evo same thing yes but the TG format makes it a much more absobing/immersing experience.
                              Every time we roll out it's different and that's the big plus for me I have found my home the place I was searching for.

                              So to sum up Evo was getting boring but through the experience of the TG Sqd Leaders it becomes a much improved mission and a giant step towards a reality situation.

                              It's not just the type that matters but it is the experiece enabled by the Sqd members and certainly here at TG there are many like minded digital troopers.

                              It can not be real enough for me.

                              Thanks for being there TG.

                              Barnaby out
                              "I like a man who grins when he fights"
                              Sir Winston Churchill


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