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  • #16
    Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

    What about using the air-strike SOP from BF2, where pilots would log into TS as Pilot1, Pilot2, etc... instead of their usual name. Then everyone has a keybind to whisper a player list (of pilots).

    When you're planning on SL'ing, login to TS as SL1, SL2, etc.... Or as PL... whatever....

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

      Originally posted by Riyker View Post

      I'm trying to see if we can muster a remedial version whereby a SL has no RO.
      Please take a second look at the picture.

      In my flow image, the RO is not required. He is purely optional. The SL can choose to keep his channel commander on at all times, and not bother to assign a RO. The SL, in tihs instance, is the RO.

      IMHO, this is the still better thanwhat we have now. It still puts all squad new arrival arrangments between new arrival and respawns and dedi transporters out of the squad members ears, becuase it isnt happening in the squad channel. and once the SL places a map map and agrees to accept someone to comeinto the squad, the ehli pilot chatters with the new arrival in tehir own channel. also not heard by the SL.

      Take a closer look please. I think the situation you describe is still covered by the original image.

      Sleepdoc
      Sleepdoc

      My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

      (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

      I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

        Originally posted by SloppyJoe View Post
        .................... I'm all in favor of pursuing this and proposing some simple SOPs for it's function. (When I am more awake)

        Your quote hits the "other nail" on the head.

        A picture idea is nothing more, without a sanctioned shift in the SOPs. the picture need a culteral mandate at Tg to take hold. alone, the image is just an idea.

        If the leadership at TG truly believes in this idea (or not), they should make a definitive statement as to their position. If the ir position is "Nah ... to much trouble and doesnt help enough", then so be it. But I have been hoping for a definitive position from them. My guess, is that hteya re talking about it, bu the big machine moves slow and allows time for other ideas.

        Finally, if they do like it, and would like to teach it, there must be an update to the SOP , a new "we are chaging our ways" post from teh leadership, and a general manfdate to do this so people will start getting organized around the newly named channels. Cultural change takes time. and it requires "marketing" by the leadership.
        Sleepdoc

        My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

        (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

        I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

          Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post
          What about using the air-strike SOP from BF2, where pilots would log into TS as Pilot1, Pilot2, etc... instead of their usual name. Then everyone has a keybind to whisper a player list (of pilots).

          When you're planning on SL'ing, login to TS as SL1, SL2, etc.... Or as PL... whatever....
          In theory, I love this idea. Its a totoally different way to solve this issue.

          The barrier is that every new person coming in will need to be reminded to change their name. Even vets like you will have to remember to change their name....... each time they come in .....

          but I admit, I like the idea lot....

          Does this mean every squad leader and sqaud member will also have to change their names in Teamspeak?

          Like SL SQ1
          A2 SQ1
          A2 SQ1
          Etc?

          I would love to be able to look out at my teamspeak overlay when people speak and see "designator labels".

          But i just keep coming back the idea that this is a barrier for entry and a technical step that will cuase lots of people to do it wrong and get confused. especailly new guys.......

          hmmmm........
          Sleepdoc

          My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

          (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

          I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

            I understand what you guys are trying to do, and I know it can be irritating, but to me this is part of the sim. I'm not real hardcore, most of you have gamed with me at least once, but the radio chatter really adds to the immersion factor IMO. The problem is there is simply lot's of chatter that should not be occuring. Last night, I could hear conversations between pilots, when I should only have heard their CC. Meaning everyone there was CC so we could reach pilots individually, but amongst themselves they should have used their channel, not a whisper.

            If everyone follows simple protocol, it can be managed. Maybe gets a little hectic at times, but it's not overwhelming.



            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

              Squad members would just use their normal names and get in the right squad channel. There would only be 3-4 players max logging in with leader tags.. SL1, SL2, & PL would probably be what we'd see nightly. Pilots could would then be the only souls using channel commander.

              So your keybinds would be

              0: whisper PL
              1: whisper SL1
              2: whisper SL2
              3: whisper SL3
              4: whisper channel commanders (Pilots)

              And the radio SOP would be to state your name first when contacting any of those.


              (to CC) "Whiskey SL1 to air, we have 2 armor marked SW of Somato, need CAS"
              (to SL1) "Copy, eta 3 minutes"


              or

              (to SL2) "Squad One, whiskey, to Squad Two, we're coming into the city from the east bridge - have you cleared any of the east side?"
              (to SL1) "Squad Two, sleepdoc, to Squad One, negative east of main road is still hostile"


              <shrug> just a thought

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                Originally posted by WhiskeySix View Post
                What about using the air-strike SOP from BF2, where pilots would log into TS as Pilot1, Pilot2, etc... instead of their usual name. Then everyone has a keybind to whisper a player list (of pilots).

                When you're planning on SL'ing, login to TS as SL1, SL2, etc.... Or as PL... whatever....
                1) I like my name :icon19:
                2) It's hard to find friends/squadmates if they are aliased as a role.
                3) If you are suggesting whisper to keys per role, you'd have a large set of keys; whisper to pilot1, whisper to pilot2, up to a lot of pilots. Same with SLs.
                4) You'd have to login, check what's taken, and relogin.
                5) If someone is pilot 2 and logs off and there are pilots 1,3,4 left, there will be a wierd gap for a time. Same with SLs.
                6) If you are suggesting a whisper to all pilots(as a list) and SLs, there is still going to be a lot of global chatter. SL to SL, all the SLs will hear chatter, Pilot to SLs, same, pilot to pilots would be redundant, since they usually reside in the same channel, etc... This situation still heavily warrants a need for a radio officer role in squads.
                7) Given that this is implemented in BF2(?) and we have two arma servers, we'd have to differentiate pilots and SLs for each game, or all the whispers would go cross-game. Ex: if there are Pilot1's in BF2, arma evo, arma co-op, they would all hear the same thing and that would be mass confusion. You'd have to make the aliases something like Pilot1bf2, pilot1evo, pilot1coop, etc, which means more keybinds for the whispers. Same for SLs.
                8) If you change roles in game, which happens quite a bit, it would mean alt-tabbing to relogin to TS, which is at best for some a minor inconvenience, and at worst for some disastrous (given different PC configurations).

                I much prefer the organization that sleepdoc presents on his page 6 diagram. It's not that complicated, it compartmentalizes the channel commander comm-line, cuts out much of the new-player/respawn chatter while at the same time facilitates their organization and effective placement of players in-game, it simplifies and defines dedicated transport duties into a much more step by step process rather than chaos, it creates a fun and important role of radio officer which is a role people might actually like to play in a squad (myself included if I'm not doing transport or CAS), and bearing in mind the RO position is optional the SL can of course be the squads RO so it's not like a squad has to sit around and wait for one, and it allows for pretty quick changes given situations and log-offs where the only inconvenience presented is channel commander status toggles to those that need to.

                Sleepdoc explains it quite well in TS, should talk to him whiskey, or catch me and I'll break it down for ya. The diagram is good but when presented with a verbal walk through, including a picture of how it is now and how it ideally should be, things snap into place quite well.
                .



                [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                - Wulfyn

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                  Wow, a lot of posts while I was writing mine, lol whiskey and sleepdoc you guys should join me on TS.
                  .



                  [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                  "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                  - Wulfyn

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                    Originally posted by Shafik View Post
                    I understand what you guys are trying to do, and I know it can be irritating, but to me this is part of the sim. I'm not real hardcore, most of you have gamed with me at least once, but the radio chatter really adds to the immersion factor IMO.
                    To a point. Yes. The chatter among people doing expected war comms things does add to the immersion. Like SLs trying to coordinate during a fire fight. But new arrivals who have yet to get in the TG groove generate a lot of "anti immersion" chatter. 2 different types of chatter. I'm not trying to limit it all. just the stuff that clearly doesnt help immersion. IMHO.

                    Originally posted by Shafik View Post
                    The problem is there is simply lot's of chatter that should not be occuring. Last night, I could hear conversations between pilots, when I should only have heard their CC.
                    Exactly. Hence the idea of giving dedicated transport pilots an islated channel to manage each others turn to transport and the new arrivals and respawns...

                    If everyone follows simple protocol, it can be managed. Maybe gets a little hectic at times, but it's not overwhelming.
                    Here is the basic issue with this approach (hoping that people will follow simple protocols). <I have been trying to make this point for a while.> New guys are welcomed at TG. They come in and out every night. They know almost nothing about our protocols, even if they ahve read the SOP as required. So although you can teach the vets discipline, the new guys need a place to come and chatter (and hopefully be talked to by more experienced people teaching them to chatter less) while still not being in a squad channel or CC. It was my hope that this "catch all bucket" would be the dedicated transport and new arrival channel......

                    I just don't believe TG will ever be able to teach new guys fast enough on discipline. Without this bucket channel, every night will have new guys talking too much on the wrong channel. Probably just like I did when I first found TG. It's just natural for a lot of new people until they learn the right way. I am hoping to place them in a temporary bucket upon arrival to the server until they make it out to the field........

                    Why can't we teach diiscipline, but also have a slighly better funnel to help blunt the effect when discipline breaksdown?

                    why not have both teaching AND a system that helps the natural breakdowns?
                    Sleepdoc

                    My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

                    (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

                    I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                      Excellent points sleepdoc.

                      If we wanted to, we could even have TRAIN TG type people residing in the new arrivals channel, either as transport players or just hanging out in the channel to guide new arrivals, and all this 'non-immersive' chatter would be isolated to said bucket.
                      .



                      [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                      "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                      - Wulfyn

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                        Lemme re-align doc's diagrams side by side for the sake of future discussion:

                        Although it depends on the night/players/etc, the current set-up allows for mass chaos:


                        The IDEAL Scenario: -IF- TeamSpeak had the capabilities to whisper to channel commanders in a -specific- channel
                        (Note, although a global channel commander (as per the bar) would still be available to talk strategy, arrows from each units could also be direct to each other, bypassing the global channel commander and allowing for commander to commander discussion, too bad TS can't do this)


                        Since TS doesn't have this capability, the next best solution:
                        .



                        [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                        "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                        - Wulfyn

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                          LOL. the Resurrection!
                          Sleepdoc

                          My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

                          (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

                          I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                            So why hasn't this system been implemented yet?



                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                              Next step.

                              This whole idea is in a conceptual + hashing out stage.

                              Upon discussion in TS today, it appears that a lot of the ideas and hashings have started to gel. The next logical step would be to re-package and present a gelled version/proposal as well as a feeler to the ArmA staff in regards to the concepts acceptability.

                              This is what I'll be working on next with SleepDocs blessings.
                              .



                              [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                              "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                              - Wulfyn

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                                There is nothing complex about the channel setup proposed. It is extremely simple. In fact, it decreases the total number channels currently in use by about 3 (no need for east, west, and seagull in EVo) and only adds one. the "Start here" Channel.

                                Discipline is what it is. It ebbs and flows as new guys arrive. This is TG. New guys all the time. They need time to learn the discipline issues. And while theya re learning, the start here channel keeps them clear of more important comms channels.

                                The approach is designed to blunt the effect when chatter is present. It is independant of the discipline. further more, some chatter is required (like between the dedi heli guy and the new guy ...... No need for anyone other than their channel to hear that.)
                                Sleepdoc

                                My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

                                (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

                                I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

                                Comment

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