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  • #76
    Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

    Originally posted by ANGELofDEATH View Post
    Sry if I wasnt clear.. I was talking about taking the basic TS keybind file (.kbn) in this thread..
    http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-a...-keybinds.html
    and updating it.. So that everyone has the same setup.
    cool. Part of the problem with this ongoing thread is that some of you guys are keybind/TS experts and some of us (like me) are not. So i appreciate this clarification. If it is a fixed setup that does not require any unique modifications bby the users, then your half the way home.... please continue to describe all these dieas to the lowest common denominator (I'm tlaking ot everyone, inclusing myself)

    I know we can set up whispers on the fly.. but I dont think most people will use this option.. as people come and go it will be hard to remember whos whisper I have set up where :)
    Bingo. Thank you for stating this. It violates the rule of "too complex".

    I do like Panzers new .kbn idea
    This is what I meant.. just adding to it


    Main Channel - "ArmA Evo-Report here-PL" Alt + Numpad 0
    Squad One Alt + Numpad 1
    Squad Two Alt + Numpad 2
    Squad Three Alt + Numpad 3
    Squad Four Alt + Numpad 4
    Air Element Alt + Numpad 5
    Armor Element Alt + Numpad 6
    Air transport Element Alt + Numpad 7
    East Alt + Numpad 8
    West Alt + Numpad 9

    Whisper to Channel Commander B
    Whisper to Main channel Shift + Numpad 0
    Whisper to Squad One Shift + Numpad 1
    Whisper to Squad Two Shift + Numpad 2
    Whisper to Squad Three Shift + Numpad 3
    Whisper to Squad Four Shift + Numpad 4
    Whisper to Air Element Shift + Numpad 5
    Whisper to Armor Element Shift + Numpad 6
    Whisper to Air transport Element Shift + Numpad 7
    Whisper to East Shift + Numpad 8
    Whisper to West Shift + Numpad 9

    Toggle Channel Commander Right ALT + Right CTRL + Insert
    Volume Up 10% Alt + =
    Volume Down 10% Alt + -
    cool. got it. brass tacks. makes it easier to follow when the example is concrete and laid out like this.

    Although this is all set up for Evo, we need to make sure this will also apply in Coop. As we dont want to have two .kbn files.
    Amen.

    One concern with this setup. and I recognize that teamspeak has limitations and this is one of them.....

    It is a shame that when what an SL really wants to do is whisper to another squadleader or radio officer, he has to actually whisper into the ears of every squad member on that squad..... I wish we could create a system that did not do this.
    Sleepdoc

    My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

    (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

    I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

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    • #77
      Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

      Originally posted by Sleepdoc View Post
      .

      It is a shame that when what an SL really wants to do is whisper to another squadleader or radio officer, he has to actually whisper into the ears of every squad member on that squad..... I wish we could create a system that did not do this.
      You will be able to once the VOIP works. That could be one of the things left to use TS for. There is no SL to SL option on VOIP so hopefully the next patch will make the VOIP reliable enough that TS can be used for SL to SL or PL to SL kind of comms that won't work in VOIP.
      |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

      XBL GT: Khan58

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      • #78
        Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

        Originally posted by tHa_KhAn View Post
        You will be able to once the VOIP works. That could be one of the things left to use TS for. There is no SL to SL option on VOIP so hopefully the next patch will make the VOIP reliable enough that TS can be used for SL to SL or PL to SL kind of comms that won't work in VOIP.

        interesting.....

        are you saying that once voip is improved enough, we might use a combination of in-game viop and TS to get the segregated comms controls we are all really looking for?

        Hmmm... interesting... by jove. you may be on to something here KHAN
        Sleepdoc

        My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

        (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

        I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

          You could always add another keybind to ...Toggle, Block Whispers:madsmile:
          for all the SM then they dont have to hear all the upper comms
          theeANGELofDEATH(Steam/Origin)
          E Pluribus Unum
          Sarcasm is just another free service I offer
          Si vis pacem, para bellum .. Molon Labe

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          • #80
            Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

            TS CAN be used for SL to SL, just requires some more binds.



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            • #81
              Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

              I am very excited about the whisper to and between Squads/elements/Commander. I went home at lunch today to try it out with success but may have discovered a small problem with the proposed (or any similar) key bindings. Yes, users can customize the bindings however they see fit but this becomes more difficult with the shortage of unbound keys in ArmA. I don't bring this up to be critical, I want to help find a solution for it (or be shown it isn't a problem).

              The primary problem is the nature of whisper keybinds in TS. Just like any other multi-key combination keybind in TS you have to press and hold both (or all three) keys to activate the bind. But, the problem is that whisper is a push-to-talk function. The mic is enabled as soon as you press and hold the key(s) and disabled as soon as you release the key(s). So, using Panzer's suggestion...

              Alt + 1 = Whisper to 1st Squad
              ...you would have to hold down both keys to talk. This is possible with one hand (I assume Panzer meant the [1] above the keyboard, not the numberpad) but is a stretch from the [RightAlt] (using your thumb) to [1] (using your pinky finger).

              But that is only part of the problem hence my concern that customizing the binds could still be problematic. As we know, almost every key on the keyboard has a default bind in ArmA. This is something we all discovered the first time we used Channel Commander whisper (TG/TS/ArmA default keybind [NumPad*]) and realized we went into free look (since that key is a duplicate ArmA keybind for free look along with [LeftAlt]) every time we whispered. This one fairly easy to solve, we either re-bound whisper (I moved mine to [NumPad/] right next to [NumPad*] our un-bound the duplicate free look key. You may also notice that if you change TS channels while in-game you may momentarily look in a different direction when you press a key on the number pad but it is momentary since you quickly press and release.

              But with our proposed whisper bind above when we do this we activate the "Move" radio command menu [1] in ArmA which is reserved and cannot be re-bound and could lead to unwanted commands (someone of these could be problematic). Sure, the menu can be canceled by pressing [backspace] when you are done whispering in order to avoid giving unwanted commands but that is just one more step. Even Angel's proposal is slightly problematic...

              Whisper to Squad One Shift + Numpad 1
              ...makes you turn your and hold your head 225 degrees when you press [NumPad1]. Again, this could be a minor inconvenience (or not pertinent at all if you are looking at the map) and I could personally re-bind it but I am not sure if pilots or TrackIR users need these binds to be in place to have full view capability.

              So, there is a two-fold problem. If we use a multi-key combination for the extra whisper capability, we make cause some contorted hand placement on the keyboard and may change our point of view or inadvertently give commands or cause other conflict. If possible, I would recommend a solution that uses only a single key for the whisper and is unbound (or easily un/rebound) in ArmA.

              Currently, the only default unbound keys in ArmA are:

              LeftWindows, LeftCtrl, J, RightAlt, RightWin, Application, RightShift, Insert, PrtScr, ScrollLock, Break. NumLock, NumPad/

              Current default duplicate-bound keys are:

              Home (reload), PgUp (stand), PgDn (prone), Delete (turn left), End (Turn Right), UpArrow (Fwd), DownArrow (back), LeftArrow (strafe left), RightArrow (strafe Right), and NumPad* (free look)

              So, what say you...am I making a mountain out of a mole hill or do we need to adjust for this? And again, I love the concept and think we can make it work for sure...we just need to hammer out a couple more details.

              Edit: I am working on a couple possible keybinding suggestions to avoid conflicts...I'll post as soon as I have something workable.
              Last edited by loyalguard; 07-17-2007, 08:36 AM. Reason: typos
              LoyalGuard

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              • #82
                Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                I think between the unbound and duplicates, there are enough to cover. Holding alt or double tapping puts you into free look. Most of those "look" keys would be unnecessary as well. Good find Loyal.
                |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                XBL GT: Khan58

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                • #83
                  Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                  If anyone is looking for some keybinds that offer the ability to whisper to all channels separately, I've already posted mine.

                  http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-a...-keybinds.html

                  I've since updated them on my gaming computer but havent uploaded them to the server. I'll upload the newest keybinds when I get home.
                  TG Regular
                  TGU Staff
                  ShackTac FNG





                  TGU Rotary Wing Instructors
                  Evil Koala
                  LeftSkidLow

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                  • #84
                    Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                    Originally posted by Shafik View Post
                    TS CAN be used for SL to SL, just requires some more binds.

                    As I understood it, this required that people bind to specific people and those people change all the time. this means the bind file will have to change all the time.

                    this would violate the rule of simlicity in the extreme.

                    I too did my own tests on this.

                    I am discouraged that we have moved in the direction of a system where my entire squad has to hear every transmission whispered to me. This "broke" one of the key purposes of my original diagram. the keep the head of my SM's clear of all transmissions they don't need to hear. The good news is that they only hear whispers from other SLs, which should be relatively rare....
                    Sleepdoc

                    My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

                    (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

                    I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                      Thanks Loyalguard for doing the keymap research. It was on my boilerplate as I know certain keys would conflict with keys used in the game. The important point is the whisper structure and its ease, but a logical keymap would provide very beneficial.
                      --
                      VI VI VI - the number of the beast

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                      • #86
                        Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                        Originally posted by Sleepdoc View Post
                        As I understood it, this required that people bind to specific people and those people change all the time. this means the bind file will have to change all the time.

                        this would violate the rule of simlicity in the extreme.

                        I too did my own tests on this.
                        No, Doc. You were there with me when we tested the "Bind Last Whisperer to Preset" option, and it works. It can be changed in game, whenever a new person joins or when someone leaves. You don't have to touch the bind file itself. These are simple binds that can easily be added to the Koala's set and their usage explained in less than a sentence.



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                        • #87
                          Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                          Originally posted by Shafik View Post
                          No, Doc. You were there with me when we tested the "Bind Last Whisperer to Preset" option, and it works. It can be changed in game, whenever a new person joins or when someone leaves. You don't have to touch the bind file itself. These are simple binds that can easily be added to the Koala's set and their usage explained in less than a sentence.
                          Ah. the bind last whisperer trick. Yep. Still way too complicated Shafik, for aTG EVO solution, IMHO.

                          Please don't forget. TG EVO has new guys coming in all the time. My goal has always been to keep it acccessible for all. This trick too, though pretty cool, is for relatively advanced users. It is by no means a simple concept that everyone could get comfortbale with right off the bat.

                          We seem to keep forgetting this need. I hope we don't forget it when we make our final change to a new system.
                          Last edited by Sleepdoc; 07-17-2007, 10:29 AM.
                          Sleepdoc

                          My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

                          (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

                          I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                            Originally posted by Sleepdoc View Post
                            We seem to keep forgetting this need. I hope we don't foget it when we make our final change to a new system.
                            This a very good point. Not to forget the needs of new comers. However, let's face it, there is no guarantee that the server will have any kind of vets on it any time. New people need to come to the site to get the pass, they also need to take a minute and read a few of our SOP's and guides. Maybe even go so far as relabel everything the more friendly term FAQS as opposed to SOP's. By the time they get to the server that need to have a clue as to what is going on as there is no way to ensure that someone who can show them the ropes will be on 24/7.

                            We need to find a system that is easy to use, but more importantly easy to create instructions or a guide to using. If we find a way to spell everything out, then we might be able to tackle a more complex setup without making it daunting for new comers.

                            Again, I can not stress enough the need to focus on the future of the game when it comes to TS. We believe BIS will solve the VOIP issue as it does work for many people now. TS then becomes a way for leadership to speak to other leadership. The power of the Direct Channel in game is going to take care of much of the little side chat that sometimes happens.
                            |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                            XBL GT: Khan58

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                            • #89
                              Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                              Originally posted by tHa_KhAn View Post
                              The power of the Direct Channel in game is going to take care of much of the little side chat that sometimes happens.
                              I hope your belief that TIS has a priority to advnace this system is true (Their VOIP)

                              I hope they create a simple, "teampspeak overlay like system", where we standa fighting chance to know who is speaking. In the real world, you dont need to look around to know who is speaking in a physcially closely approximted group. its the magic of human senses. It can discriminate. It is near impossible to do this in a game. so a TSO like system would be welcomed.....
                              Sleepdoc

                              My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

                              (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

                              I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                                Originally posted by Sleepdoc View Post
                                I hope they create a simple, "teampspeak overlay like system", where we standa fighting chance to know who is speaking. In the real world, you dont need to look around to know who is speaking in a physcially closely approximted group. its the magic of human senses. It can discriminate. It is near impossible to do this in a game. so a TSO like system would be welcomed.....
                                Another good point. In Direct Channel, the lips of the speaker move. So if my character model is facing Sleepdocs. He sees my lips move when I speak in Direct. Squad channel should be easy as you should know your SL's voice and learn your squads quickly. The other channels is a simple identify procedure. State who you are addressing and then your name. Example for side channel "All Squads, this is Cobra's 1 & 2, we are on station and awaiting targets."
                                |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                                XBL GT: Khan58

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