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  • #91
    Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

    Originally posted by tHa_KhAn View Post
    Another good point. In Direct Channel, the lips of the speaker move. So if my character model is facing Sleepdocs. He sees my lips move when I speak in Direct. Squad channel should be easy as you should know your SL's voice and learn your squads quickly. The other channels is a simple identify procedure. State who you are addressing and then your name. Example for side channel "All Squads, this is Cobra's 1 & 2, we are on station and awaiting targets."
    yep, comms protocols fixes most of the problem. i still hope they see the need for the tool.

    BTW. I know about the lips. neat feature ... but ..... If my eyes are west covering my sector, i can't see your lips moving. so it's either voice recognition or confusion. I love good software systems that kill ambiguity and potential confusion. Its my prefernce to have it all !!!
    Sleepdoc

    My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

    (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

    I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

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    • #92
      Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

      On the subject of SLs speaking directly to SLs.. Using teamspeak it is quite possible and not overly complicated provided its used during an organized game (pre-planned). The bind to last whisperer can be used to bind to multiple channels (Shift-#), and at the beginning of the session, the commander will call "all comms silent for radio check" followed by "Squad leaders, in squad order check in". At which point you can bind each leader to the corrisponding key. It would only take a minute to perform and would help to lessen overall chatter.

      This would require a change in our commo procedures as well as the speaker would have to be very specific as to what channel they were speaking on.. Example: "Squad 1 this is Squad 2 direct, radio check." if speaking using the direct whisper or "Squad 1 this is Squad 2 on command, radio check" if using the channel commander channel.

      At this time, it would probably be difficult to use such a feature in regular EVO until a time when every gets so familiar with the procedure that they can do it on the fly.

      I'll modify my keybinds tonight to incorperate it. If everyone perfers not to use it, it will still be there but wont be in the way. More to come when I get home (6pm EST)
      TG Regular
      TGU Staff
      ShackTac FNG





      TGU Rotary Wing Instructors
      Evil Koala
      LeftSkidLow

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      • #93
        Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

        Originally posted by Evil Koala View Post

        At this time, it would probably be difficult to use such a feature in regular EVO until a time when every gets so familiar with the procedure that they can do it on the fly.
        As long as TG EVO remains open to new comers, that day will never arrive. This is the fundamental basis of my never ending commentary on "its too complicated".

        For TG EVO, we need a far more simple solution than what seems to be developing. We seem to have a group of veteran users developng a veterans use plan. the open nature of TG EVO to new comers appears to be getting lost in the noise.

        Whispering to whisperers violates the simplicity rule.
        Sleepdoc

        My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

        (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

        I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

          Okay, I have not come up with anything unique per se, but I think I have found the best compromise possible. My goal was to find new key binds for all the whispers we want while minimizing disruption of our current TS keybinds and avoiding conflict with the ArmA control keybinds.

          Right now I see two options, neither is perfect but both should be acceptable:

          1) Use the the "extended" keys to the left of the number pad to use as single-key whispers.

          2) Use the number pad numbers for single-key whispers.

          Here is the rationale for both:

          Option 1 - If we use the "extended keys" (Scroll Lock, Pause, Insert, Delete, Home, End, PgUp, PgDn) we meet most of the above goals. Only three of them are unbound, but the rest are completely duplicate binds (see my post above) that can be easily unbond...so you could go:

          Scroll Lock = Whisper Sub Channels (Current keybind)
          Pause = Whisper Command Element (Are we still going to use this or the "Parent" channel instead
          Insert = Whisper Squad 1
          Home = Whisper Squad 2
          PageUp = Whisper Squad 3
          Delete = Whisper Squad 4
          End = Whisper Squad Air
          PageDown = Whisper Squad Armor

          (I have not used PrtScr to avoid potential Fraps or other conflicts)

          Even if players choose not to rebind them, none of the functions are too detrimental I don't think (stand up here, reload there, etc.) but unbinding them would be ideal.


          Option 2
          - Right now, our standard key binds use Alt+Num1 to change to Channel 1, Alt+Num5 to change to the Air Element, etc. It is pretty logical...Alt = change and Num# = the channel you are changing to. So, if we just use Num1 to whisper to squad channel 1, it follows the same pattern...minimal distruption to our current binds. But, it does conflict with some ArmA controls. As I mentioned earlier the numpad #'s correspong to moving your head to a certain POV (change in degreees) and stays that way until you release it. So, if num1 moved your head 225 deg and keeps it there while you hold it down to talk, you will look that way the whole time...unless...you un-bind it. Unless someone can suggest a reason why we don't encourgae players who want to use the whisper function to either ignore the head turning or un-bind it (since it doesn't seem to effect any other vital controls) that it what I recommend.
          There are the additional hazzards of accidentally whispering if you have Alt+tabbed out of ArmA and are typing notes, a webpage, etc if you happen to use the number pad, but I too think that is minimal.

          Please also note that with both options, I have not changed "whisper to channel Commanders". It stays the same as it is now with our current keybinds (or as user customized). You may also ask why mine is different from others. I have tried to keep all this as simple as possible, but there aren't alot of keys out there to work with...what say you?
          LoyalGuard

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          • #95
            Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

            Option 2 sounds like the way to go.
            But what about the second family of channels(evo+coop) Is ctrl+num# an option for that?
            --
            VI VI VI - the number of the beast

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            • #96
              Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

              I have a shift+alt+0 for COOP family. The otherer binds work in that channel group too, so you only have to switch between families and your binds will work fine. After I do the Shift + alt + 0, I can just use Alt+1, 2, 3, etc for the channels.
              |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

              XBL GT: Khan58

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              • #97
                Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                I really don't want two sets of binds that communicate to squad channels in both COOP and EVO. I'm only going to be in one game at a time anyway. Besides, if I make a typo mistake while trying to whisper to Sq#1 in my EVO game, I might be whispering to Sq#1 in the COOP game.

                So... whatever we settle on in terms of squad binds (eg. Alt+ or whatever), I will setup one keyset for COOP, then export it. The configure another for EVO and export it. If I'm going to play EVO I'll just import my EVO keybinds and visaversa.

                Both will be qualitatively identical in that, I'm always going to use Alt+[squad#] to whisper to the respective squad -- whether it's EVO or COOP.

                Make sense?
                sigpic
                I run my $#@! new school style with old school roots...

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                • #98
                  Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                  ..At least we got away from complicated ... ;-)
                  |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                  ..now where did I put my keys?

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                    I've updated my keybinds. They can be found in this post.
                    http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-a...tml#post752592
                    TG Regular
                    TGU Staff
                    ShackTac FNG





                    TGU Rotary Wing Instructors
                    Evil Koala
                    LeftSkidLow

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                    • Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                      Originally posted by peardog View Post
                      ..At least we got away from complicated ... ;-)
                      ugh. exactly. joke received.... let's just see what the tests vette out.
                      Sleepdoc

                      My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

                      (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

                      I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                        Originally posted by ANGELofDEATH View Post


                        Main Channel - "ArmA Evo-Report here-PL" Alt + 0
                        Squad One Alt + 1
                        Squad Two Alt + 2
                        Squad Three Alt + 3
                        Squad Four Alt + 4
                        Air Element Alt + 5
                        Armor Element Alt + 6
                        Air transport Element Alt + 7


                        Whisper to Channel Commander B
                        Whisper to Main channel Shift + 0
                        Whisper to Squad One Shift + 1
                        Whisper to Squad Two Shift + 2
                        Whisper to Squad Three Shift + 3
                        Whisper to Squad Four Shift + 4
                        Whisper to Air Element Shift + 5
                        Whisper to Armor Element Shift + 6
                        Whisper to Air transport Element Shift + 7

                        Toggle Block Whispers Right ALT + Right CTRL + Delete
                        Toggle Channel Commander Right ALT + Right CTRL + Insert
                        Volume Up 10% Alt + =
                        Volume Down 10% Alt + -
                        Again.. this is just adding to what is already there..
                        easily blocking whispers so SM dont hear everything.. if they dont want to hear all SL comms chatter.

                        I changed the Command Element to the Air Transportation channel.. hopping we could move the PL/CO to the main channel to directly deal with new comers... and knowing we need the Air Trans guys seperate from the Attack Air

                        I had originally put the numberpad numbers in my list.. I dont use them personnally, just put them in like that because that is the original .kbn file setup.. I use the ALT/Shift + number keys.
                        just trying to make this as simple as possible

                        I agree we need to make sure this or what ever setup we agree on works for 90% of the players here... the rest, well I can show you how to alter your keybinds :madsmile:

                        I can live with adding the bind whispers in koalas list.. although I still think it will confuse some :/
                        theeANGELofDEATH(Steam/Origin)
                        E Pluribus Unum
                        Sarcasm is just another free service I offer
                        Si vis pacem, para bellum .. Molon Labe

                        Comment


                        • Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                          All,

                          I'd like to recap where we are with this.

                          Based on our test game last night, we experienced a mixture of the various comm suggestions. There are several views out there on this.

                          I think in whole however, the reduction of comm traffic in the SL/RO's ears is a good goal however it's accomplished. Unfortunately we have to operate within the realm of TeamSpeak's feature set.

                          Last night we experienced both CO->SL comms via whisper, Channel Commander, text, and direct visit (hopped in the channel).

                          First, let me say, text is under utilized. I was able to accomplish a hell of a lot by typing requests to the CO/Air. Loyal was observant and text replied, confirming receipt. Chat protocol could be a completely different thread/SOP from voice comms, albeit related and supporting.

                          In my opinion the Channel Commander traffic is STILL way too much comm activity in my ears (as SL). When CC comms broadcasted I had coverage over inner-squad chat 50% of the time. That's too much. I would still like to propose CC comms only be used for break communications, for example SL<->SL comms (infrequent) or for CO->ALL SLs (emergency break broadcasts).

                          So, what does that mean if we drop the Channel Commander bind as the primary way to communicate? As you all know, I've proposed we have a seperate bind for SLs to communicate to the CO directly (via the Parent Channel or a specific channel such a Command Element). This means that I can talk to the CO without bothering any other SL.

                          The only thing left is to have the CO respond to me, without bother any other SL. That's where the Alt+Squad# binds come in. The CO would have squad binds preset for direct comms. When the CO whispers to my channel, he is broadcasted in my squad's channel for everyone to hear. That's a good thing -- if everyone hears the CO talking to us, they will pipe down -- helping to reduce coverage (or members can block all whispers and only hear comms from the SL).

                          SleedDoc, based on our chat night, you had a valid concern, regarding not having the squad members hear comm traffic coming in to the squad channel from the CO ... there is a way. Have the members "elect" to hear them or not by setting a toggle bind to block/enable all whispers.

                          As a squad member, you wouldn't be whispered to anyway, so blocking them is no big deal. You could reenable instantly however as desiered; say if SL went down and you were #2 and needed to take over -- thereby instantly receiving incoming CO chatter.
                          That said, my proposal requires VERY LITTLE change from what we have:

                          From a SL's perspective:
                          1) Change our behavior for when we use Channel Commander to broadcast.
                          2) Create a new bind for whispering to the CO.

                          From a CO's perspective:
                          1) Change our behavior for when we use Channel Commander to broadcast.
                          2) Create new binds for whispering to the squad channels.

                          Piece of cake! Tested, Proven. Nonetheless, hopefully we can get some perspective from Loyal as well.

                          Any other channels we have for new recruits, respawns, dedicated transport, etc can fall into the same model.

                          Regarding what binds to use for the squad channels to maximize efficiency across EVO or COOP, or whatever, there are three general opinions out there:

                          A) Set a whisper to each squad channel for EVO and COOP (Alt+1 for Evo squad #1, and Control+1 for COOP squad #1).
                          B) Set a whisper to each squad channel (Alt+1 for squad#1) unique to each game type and use the export/import TS feature whenever you want to load those binds.
                          C) Use Presets to bind them on the fly (eg. see Evil Koala).

                          In my opinion I suggest we go with either B) or C). I'm in favor of C) but only if we can agree to a protocol at game launch so each squad's whisper's can be bound.
                          Sorry this was another long post. Because there is so much going on with this topic I would be happy to meet with anyone wanting me to demonstrate.
                          Last edited by Riyker; 07-18-2007, 07:52 AM.
                          sigpic
                          I run my $#@! new school style with old school roots...

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                          • Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                            Loyal handled new comers via Text. This is the best way in my opinion. Loyal paid attention to text all night which is something I think needs to be used even more. Most of my requests and responses were via text to Loyal.

                            Now later in the night when John and E-male were handling Air Element and PL duties there was a delay in responding to new comers. This is to be expected when someone is wearing two hats like that.

                            Like I have mentioned before, unless it is an immediate impact communication like:"Duck, Tank east!" there is no reason it cannot be in text. Use the appropriate channel however. If Vehicle and Squad channels are utilized then the side chat will be left for PL requests and transmissions. This makes it easy for the PL to read and respond. Last night I can't tell you how nice it was to see many communications done in text instead of in my ear
                            |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                            XBL GT: Khan58

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                            • Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                              Khan.

                              there were no "new comers" last night. New comers are guys who have never played on TG before (or at least, they are so new, they are not yet clear on our ways).

                              Last night was experienced TG players playing with experienced TG players.

                              This point continues to get buried. ugh.

                              Sorry to be so negative. I saw last night as a complete misfire on the point of TG EVO being open to all and easy to use.... This comms idea has gone way off base IMHO....

                              all I can say is ... see my final picture.

                              http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n...BetterYET6.jpg

                              No whispering required

                              No one way conversations heard by my SM's incoming from command (that made no sense to me and stands only to create confusion and muck up the squad members ears...)

                              No comms AT ALL heard by my SMs except from people in their squad. ( a goal that has gotten lost in the noise)

                              Sls can be on CC or they can asssign a RO if they so choose.

                              No whispers. no whisper to whisperer. No complexities.

                              I'm tired of selling this fish. It clearly isn't gaining any traction. I'll just try to fall in with whatever you guys come up with.
                              Last edited by Sleepdoc; 07-18-2007, 12:36 PM.
                              Sleepdoc

                              My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

                              (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

                              I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Comm Traffic/Covering

                                IMO we're overcomplicating things here. As I see it, the PL and each Squad (not SL) can be thought of as discrete entities. Each entity simply needs the ability to directly communicate with the other entities.

                                (IMO, it's not a problem for SM's to hear SL<->PL coms... as SL, you need radio silence in your squad anyway when communicating with PL. If **** hits the fan during PL<->SL coms, the SL can just 'break' CO.)



                                IMO, Riyker's design handles our/my requirements simply and elegantly...

                                (slightly refined: )
                                Originally posted by Riyker View Post
                                1) CO always resides in the root Arma channel.
                                2) Players must always join a sub-channel (new players enter the root...).
                                3) Talk to one SL: whisper individual Squad-Channel.
                                4) Talk to PL: whisper ArmA root-channel.
                                5) Broadcast to ALL leadership: whisper to Channel Commander

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