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  • Disorganization on Evolution

    The last two nights on the Evolution server have been particularly disorganized to the point of significantly straying from what a lot of us have been striving for on the server. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, but I am unimpressed by the lack of teamspeak use and the lack of squad leading and any sense of organization that goes with it.

    Perhaps someone can elighten me if I'm wrong here, but if there are 10 players on the server and no one is squad leading, what good is that? If a request is made to start a squad and no one answers, how is that teamwork?

    Please, read the SOPs, use Teamspeak (including comm procedures) and use the in-game squad system to keep groups focused and organized. According to SOPs, every player should be in a squad, and every squad should have a designated leader. Without it, this game is simply not the same.

  • #2
    Re: Disorganization on Evolution

    Mosely, do not do finger pointing in public, but if you offered to lead a squad and noticed the other players were not squadded up and not working together, forward those names along. A gentle nudge from the admins should help and if it doesn't the kick/ban should get the hint acrossed.

    I was on earlier in the evening and all was well. We had about 10 players on, 1 dedicated pilot the rest were in my squad working well. Everything was going good for a few hours until I got video issues and had to leave. I don't know if it was the same group(I hope not) that was up to this, but let us admins know.

    *edit* by having the password, everyone acknowledges they have read the Server Guide and are thus in violation of our rules and guidelines if they show this kind of behavior on the server.
    |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

    XBL GT: Khan58

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    • #3
      Re: Disorganization on Evolution

      I agree that there have been people who don't stick as close to everyone else as they should perhaps be doing. And sometimes people use air assets instead of waiting for a lift.

      But it seems a little unfair to expect the newer players to manage to lead a squad. Last night I was on with a few people and I managed to SL for a bit and we did OK, but when Khan came on later and took SL there was a huge difference (cheers for that btw).

      I know from the BF2 tournament knowing the theory only takes you so far, its the experience that makes you a good leader, and its what the newer players lack and need help with.

      My main issue with the evolution server, is that sometimes people don't clean up the vehicles after themselves. Again, last night after clearing the first town we had a clean-up operation, which a part of wasn't vehicles we used. It didn't take us long to do, but the people who were on before us should've made some effort to do it.

      Although its all fine and well, pointing this out on the forum, it needs to be reinforced on the server.
      "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, sweat and tears"




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      • #4
        Re: Disorganization on Evolution

        Anyone that got the password and read the SOPs should be able to take squad lead. You don't need to be a great war veteran general to do it or have a lot of experience. At the least be able to tell your squad what you are attacking and from where. As you gain experience as an SL, you can assign roles and take on different levels of SLing, but the base level is pretty basic; know how to use TS, be able to communicate with your team, know the server rules, know north from south. IMO there really isn't a reason to not have a squad leader.
        .



        [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
        "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
        - Wulfyn

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Disorganization on Evolution

          Hmm.. ...another idea for an Evo mod... no Points unless you are in a Squad..?? I know..if there is only one person on.... etc.. etc..

          Seems like the same old arguments/issues are new again... They will fix themselves because the Old new players are now Requiring SQUADS and the new new players will adhere once they get the TG idea.... (and a Taste of a True Coop/Squad).. It just takes time...
          |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
          ..now where did I put my keys?

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          • #6
            Re: Disorganization on Evolution

            I think Mosely's real issue is that he offered to lead and no one was willing to join. That is unacceptable. If 5 or 6 new guys are on I understand they may not be experienced enough to try to organize themselves, but once a Vet gets on there is no excuse for not getting organized, especially when the Vet is offering.
            |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

            XBL GT: Khan58

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Disorganization on Evolution

              Originally posted by SloppyJoe View Post
              Anyone that got the password and read the SOPs should be able to take squad lead. You don't need to be a great war veteran general to do it or have a lot of experience. At the least be able to tell your squad what you are attacking and from where. As you gain experience as an SL, you can assign roles and take on different levels of SLing, but the base level is pretty basic; know how to use TS, be able to communicate with your team, know the server rules, know north from south. IMO there really isn't a reason to not have a squad leader.
              I respectfully disagree. Not all players are cut out to be SL's. It is true we offer an environment where they can learn by doing--I will give you that. but what to do if noone steps up and noone feels they are able to step up.

              The more troubling question for me is how come no one joined Mosely's squad. This is not an indictment on Mosely (who is a very capable SL) but more on the folks who were in server at the time.

              In this game, everyone needs to strive for maximum communication regardless of what your intent or ability is. If that's not the case it will erode the enjoyment and playability for all who come to the server for Armed Assault action.
              sigpic
              |TG-1st|Grunt
              ARMA Admin (retired)
              Pathfinder-Spartan 5

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Disorganization on Evolution

                I should clarify here - I am only posting this as a 'sum total' perception issue. I am not pointing fingers, especially because I don't know what the circumstances were for all players. I'm only trying to bring this up as a reminder to follow SOPs, specifically with regard to squad leaders and TS. I would hope that if there is more than one player on the Evo server there is at least one squad performing operations with a squad leader. This just didn't seem to be the case the last two times I joined. I saw about 8-10 players on last night, and would be surprised if not one of them knew how to create a squad, place an LZ, and issue an order or two.

                I believe last night someone finally did step up as a squad leader, though I'm not sure what the circumstances were because not all players were communicating. Eventually 2-3 players grouped up in the field and I think were using a blackhawk to squad up, however I was bugged and could not get on board. At that point I crashed out and simply wasn't motivated enough to load in again.

                If you were on during these times, please don't think I am criticizing you. There were some players on TS, and a few players responded to me. You guys weren't doing anything wrong. My main point here, again, is to just point out the fact that things seem disorganized as of late, and that's troubling to me. From here on out, I'll be more insistent about squadding up.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Disorganization on Evolution

                  Originally posted by Grunt 70 View Post
                  In this game, everyone needs to strive for maximum communication regardless of what your intent or ability is. If that's not the case it will erode the enjoyment and playability for all who come to the server for Armed Assault action.
                  Grunt made this point better than I did.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Disorganization on Evolution

                    If you have the password, then you can read, then you should be able to follow the simple SOP's regarding organization and communication. The reason I joined the Evo server last night instead of the COOp was because I saw a lot of new names and people I am unfamiliar with. I did what I could for a few hours SLing. Things went smooth and everyone was interested in teamwork.

                    If you have the ability to squad lead and see a situation where there probably isn't a good SL, take some time help out. It's amazing how rewarding it is to hear a "thanks for a good time" when you took that extra step.
                    |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                    XBL GT: Khan58

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Disorganization on Evolution

                      Originally posted by Grunt 70 View Post
                      I respectfully disagree. Not all players are cut out to be SL's. It is true we offer an environment where they can learn by doing--I will give you that. but what to do if noone steps up and noone feels they are able to step up.
                      No one is going to step up if we discourage them from trying.

                      I think I would qualify your statement to be: not all player are cut out to be great SL's. My point was that players that know the rules (everyone who got the password should), know some basics (like directions and map usage), and communicate (everyone should), have the fundamental arsenal to take the squad lead position. Sure some players lack in-depth communication protocol, in the field experience, and management experience, but this is one way to get it. Sure, they may lose some of their men or not be highly efficient, but they don't have to be great squad leaders to be squad leaders. And if a new squad leader sees a veteran come in, he could always regroup under new leadership.

                      Not all players are cut out to be great SL's but most of them are cut out to do a baseline job of it. I don't think our standards should be set so high that only the elite take squad leader position or put pressure on players to have great abilities to take on this role because of course, that will further ensure that we don't have players stepping up in this role and players learning to better themselves in this role. I'd much rather see players with these base skills try than see a bunch of players leaderless waiting for a veteran to log in.
                      .



                      [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ ][ ][ ]
                      "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
                      - Wulfyn

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Disorganization on Evolution

                        Originally posted by SloppyJoe View Post
                        No one is going to step up if we discourage them from trying.

                        I think I would qualify your statement to be: not all player are cut out to be great SL's. My point was that players that know the rules (everyone who got the password should), know some basics (like directions and map usage), and communicate (everyone should), have the fundamental arsenal to take the squad lead position. Sure some players lack in-depth communication protocol, in the field experience, and management experience, but this is one way to get it. Sure, they may lose some of their men or not be highly efficient, but they don't have to be great squad leaders to be squad leaders. And if a new squad leader sees a veteran come in, he could always regroup under new leadership.

                        Not all players are cut out to be great SL's but most of them are cut out to do a baseline job of it. I don't think our standards should be set so high that only the elite take squad leader position or put pressure on players to have great abilities to take on this role because of course, that will further ensure that we don't have players stepping up in this role and players learning to better themselves in this role. I'd much rather see players with these base skills try than see a bunch of players leaderless waiting for a veteran to log in.
                        I agree with your qualifications and didn't mean to imply that anyone stepping up has to be an outstanding SL. Nor do I mean to imply that we should discourage them from trying.

                        Still - the question remains- how to address the issue in game as it happens. My instinct tells me we should be looking for an admin to step in or at least to send a PM to. A broader look however tells me we need experienced players to step up more often. Like Mose said previously, I'll do more SLing in the future as well.
                        Last edited by Grunt 70; 07-31-2007, 03:14 PM.
                        sigpic
                        |TG-1st|Grunt
                        ARMA Admin (retired)
                        Pathfinder-Spartan 5

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Disorganization on Evolution

                          Originally posted by Grunt 70 View Post
                          My instinct tells me we should be looking for an admin to step in or at least to send a PM to.
                          Yep..and that's what Khan Suggested...
                          |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                          ..now where did I put my keys?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Disorganization on Evolution

                            I was on yesterday for about 12 hours.. I noticed the same thing mosely. I was almost primarily running transport fo everyone. Everything seemed to be fine while khan was there, then he left. I was still running transport for a while and saw you connect mosely. I apologize but I more than likely didnt see any requests due to my accute focus whilest in flight..... lol. But I did notice that you didnt do anything, then all of a sudden you just left. Thought that was kinda odd, so the first thing I thought of was you couldnt either get in or get started a squad and you left.

                            It seems like its some of the same difficulties with admins on CS as well... You have several.. i mean several people who teeder on the edge of TG and total lonewolfin... its hard for me to bring down the fire on someone who has been known in the past to work well with a squad/team and is doing things that are totally retarded... Guess I need to tighten up like my CS reputation :P

                            Sorry that ruined your game time mosely. Ill be pulling the reigns back from now on and making sure not to let frag monkeys linger any longer.


                            Side note- The CooP server yesterday was absolut garbage. 15 people in one channel trying to talk over eachother, single players running off alone(getting mad kills AND deaths). Total lack of respect for anything. I have a few names but not all of them. But rest assured, I WILL be taking down names/numbers from now on. I will not let what has happend to other great games here happen to the most important game we have to offer.
                            Dizlor


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                            • #15
                              Re: Disorganization on Evolution

                              Also..We cannot forget that the EVO programming allows for Mini Squads.. So if I go in game I can get my buddy in EVO and make a squad..then grab some AI..and there ya go..I'm in a squad... Right?

                              (Of course no TS is in violation of the Server Rules..)
                              |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                              ..now where did I put my keys?

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