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TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

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  • TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

    The Good

    I felt genuinely like i was hunting and like I was being hunted. nice.

    Made tactical movement even that much more important

    The Bad (obviously, just my personal opinion)

    1--->>Little birds dont respawn. Lets face it. Opfor is gonna get bored real fast if troop resupplies are so cumbersome, people just leave. in this case, it may as well just be single death coop. but it's not. it's evo. it needs its identity and purpose decided. If the purpose is respawn and resupply to keep the battle going, then respawn transport helis. if it is a one death game, then that's cool too. but it needs to decide what it is. (When i arrived, all the little birds were all already dead in the field)

    2--->>Why make the game ranked? TG EVO seems to me to be a place to allow unranked access, guided by the SOPs for use. Again, it seems to be a identity issue. What should the TvT TG server be?

    Overall, very interesting. I'll be back. just trying to generate some dialogue on the potential shortcomings that can be easily modded.
    Sleepdoc

    My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

    (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

    I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

  • #2
    Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

    I had a good time tonight playing on the OPFOR. However I was hoping for some fierce house to house combat in the cities (something AI are not very good at)...and I end up participating in a "sniping competition" around Cayo, which tends to become a bit boring after a while. Maybe limiting the number of scoped rifles available could limit this trend

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

      Good point. When we came in "unranked", all we could get was a simple rifle. I'm guessing, (although i do not know), that we were getting picked off by ACOGs. Death? care to tell me if I'm right?

      One way is to limit the scopes. but the other wya, is to make the server unranked. If I have a acog or a scope too, then im all good. Then it starts coming down to thinking through your fireteams load out. one sniper, 2 acogs and a rifleman and a heavy Machine gunner.

      I have no issue with OPFOR having a scope ... as long as my squad can have one too.

      Now, if we did a no scope mission, then street bettles would certainly ensue. and those would be a ton of fun too. And your right. getting picked off as an unranked squad wasnt much fun. But the feeling of being hunted kind of was ...
      Sleepdoc

      My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

      (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

      I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

        I really like this mod.. Ambushes at every step of the battle... If you think it is tough for the Blufor.. the Opfor spawns north of Eponia.. talk about a long drive/flight.

        The Opfor being out numbered in real players means nothing when they are defending.. We were defending Cayo so long, I lost count of the Opfor AI west of the city.. more than 30 EI, 2 T72s, a BMP and Shilkas.. I really felt bad for the Blufor.

        I do like the mod being ranked.. There were not humvees spread out from one end of the to the other(just LBs). No engie/medic class, so there is more need for real players to use the support vehicles(not used once).. Teamwork is a must and worked well with most. Although comms are still being severely abused.

        Still give it one thumb up.. needs tweeking, but fun and intense.
        theeANGELofDEATH(Steam/Origin)
        E Pluribus Unum
        Sarcasm is just another free service I offer
        Si vis pacem, para bellum .. Molon Labe

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

          Why do you like it being ranked Angel?

          Do you feel that it is better for guys with "points" to have access to advantageous weapons, thus greatly imbalancing the opportunity of assaulting teams from making headway? You prefer for some to have scopes while others have simple rifles? How is that a good thing for overall gameplay? This issue has nothing to do with team work. All the team work in the world cant reach out and touch a group of snipers and ACOGs when the in coming squad has only their M4 and their boots. Especailly in a town like Cayo with minimal concelament and cover from almost all approaches ....

          I really like this mod.. ........ If you think it is tough for the Blufor.. the Opfor spawns north of Eponia.. talk about a long drive/flight.
          And this is fun how?
          Sleepdoc

          My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

          (and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

          I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

            Personally I greatly enjoyed this. The opfor worked effectively and did a good job of ambushing us. My only real complaint is twofold. Ranking needs to be fixed, if I crash I want to be able to come back in to my rank. The other portion of my complaint about ranking is that the OPFOR should have to rank up as well. I'm sorry but I find SVDs off the bat excessive even when I was the one wielding it I was unhappy with it, and I even switched over to an AK-74.

            Basically this, if we fixed the ranking so that it worked properly we'd be fine. I think running this for one day a week would be really good. Also make it so the blufor can have more than 17 players. If we had an event based around this it would be great.

            I however am in support of breaking it into real squads so that you spawn with the weapons you should have. Allowing pilots to fly what they are meant to, allowing machinegunners to have 240s, allowing automatic riflemen to have 249s. But having specific birds locked out until certain times. Later on in the game having human opfor would make for a seriously interesting game, because you would actually have to send patrols through areas to make sure that you dont have some guy with an SA-7 sitting outside your base. Or for those that fly air to air, you'd have to worry about actually competent pilots attacking you.

            As I said, it was a breath of fresh air. But it is definitely not an everyday thing. Fix it proper and it would definitely be good for an alternating thing.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

              Originally posted by Sleepdoc View Post
              1--->>Little birds dont respawn. Lets face it. Opfor is gonna get bored real fast if troop resupplies are so cumbersome, people just leave. in this case, it may as well just be single death coop. but it's not. it's evo. it needs its identity and purpose decided. If the purpose is respawn and resupply to keep the battle going, then respawn transport helis. if it is a one death game, then that's cool too. but it needs to decide what it is. (When i arrived, all the little birds were all already dead in the field)
              .
              Yeah the littlebird thing was a joke, there was only 1 left when we cleared Somato!!!!!! I then quickly jumped in the last one and landed somewhere obscure until peopled needed rides to Cayo, but I eventually was shot down from a Strela. Which brings up another point, I thought the added risk of a Strela may be cool but I think most or all of the non AI were packing them, that doesn't seem realistic to me but I don't really know what I'm basing it on. It just seems like maybe the Strela should be limited also.


              TGU Rotary Wing Instructors
              Evil Koala
              LeftSkidLow

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

                We had a good talk about this one.

                This version of Evo needs lots of players to work properly. If not, there's no Repair and Recovery for the US forces. You guys were wondering if we were ever gonna attack you while you were in Cayo.....can you imagine how long you'd have been asking 'are we there yet' if we'd had to repair everything on the field before we could assault you? :P

                Also, the opfor human force should never exceed 1/3 of the total players on the server. This mission was designed so that as you gain rank, you recruit AI to flesh out your forces. But playing it as we did, the human US vs OpFor were 1-to-1 when I joined the server. That meant there was probably 1 US to every 5+ opfor in any given TOWN. And they had tanks. And they had sniper rifles. Just one of those tweaks that although fun, unbalances the mission all too quickly.

                I don't know if it's possible, but to make an ultimate version of this mission, it needs to be able to adjust to the number of players on the server. Unless that can be done, I'd have to say though that, like Sleepdoc said, have the lighter transport vehicles set to respawn. If there's low numbers on, they can't use more than a couple LB's at a time anyway. As for the human US-OpFor ratio, that may have to be on the honor system for now.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

                  I liked what I saw and I'll certainly give it another whirl.

                  Some fine tuning along the suggested lines would be good.

                  Some observations...
                  An attacking invading force is frequently at an asset disadvantage compared to the entrenched well supplied enemy.
                  Normally you would cut the supply lines, spot and call air attack on their ground assets.
                  So for me the imbalance in weaponary just means I need to adapt my attacking mode. Move with caution check all building ends quickly move over open ground, have your buddies cover your movement etc etc.
                  Also speed of closure is the enemy of the sniper while distance is his friend so ID his location and push onto it quickly keeping as much hard cover in front of you.
                  It should make for a more tactical approach being adopted.

                  Having said that I'm not really sure why the rank-V-weapon thing is active much better for me would be a ballanced setup and have the SL decide the trooper loadout. With a background limitation on the number of each weapon permitted eg 1 sniper per 10 troopers etc.
                  Not sure how/if that would work as once the battlefielld became littered with bodies then downed weapons would be available to all.

                  Hell this fighting stuff is tuff.
                  "I like a man who grins when he fights"
                  Sir Winston Churchill


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

                    RANK
                    I enjoyed an actual ranked setting on the server.
                    I didn't enjoy losing my rank every time I CTD.
                    Clearly, that needs to be fixed. I don't mind working for my guns, though :)

                    BLUEFOR/OPFOR
                    The ratio should never drop below 4/1 in my opinion.
                    The defenders have a tremendous advantage, especially early on when the bluefor don't have rank to use their assets or weapons. As this advantage is whittled away by rank, the towns become farther away from the bluefor base, helping even it up.

                    BASE ASSETS
                    I'd like to see the base assets include what we have in our regular evo server, with TOW capability for repair and recovery. I'm not sure exactly what respawns and what doesn't, but the game play was much more careful and in that respect, more realistic. I'd be happy with allowing all unarmed transports to respawn, just more slowly than we're used to.

                    AI
                    It seems to me that the AI was made much harder and more abundant. This is good!

                    GAME PLAY OPINION
                    I think the level of game play was elevated compared to the regular evo map. Remember that no one HAS TO go opfor. It can be played as normal until the # of players on the server warrants adding human OPFOR. Say 10 people on... throw in a human or two. Doing so with less will cause problems, as the increased AI difficulty can hold cities very well when there is no CAS to strike down the AI hordes. This leaves frustrated bluefor, and bored human opfor.

                    If the scripting that allows for the opfor humans, and the increased difficulty AI could be ported into our regular evo, I'd be content to play that (as it already has all our vehicle tweaks in order). That said, it may be necessary to have all that extra air power (did you see all the FFARs and AH6's) when fighting very far from main base against increased AI forces.

                    Anywho, I'd like this (once tweaked) to be our regular Evo map.
                    |TG|Switch

                    Better known as:
                    That noob who crashed the chopper.
                    That noob who ran over the mine.
                    That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
                    That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

                      I had a ton of fun on the opfor side. But there are some desparately needed improvements.

                      1) Give the opfor a transfer building with view distance menu

                      2) Add a "transport chopper" similar to the campfire in Serial Killer allowing any opfor to be able to spawn in a selected city, so that Opfor can actually defend the cities, instead of counter-attacking from the outside.

                      3) Remove all scoped rifles; Snipe-fests get boring for everyone.
                      TG Regular
                      TGU Staff
                      ShackTac FNG





                      TGU Rotary Wing Instructors
                      Evil Koala
                      LeftSkidLow

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

                        All great Comments...
                        So all we need now is to find the author and request the changes (simple? eh?) Or someone who can do the Mods dig in.. It seems that the MH6 respawn was made as a change fairly early in the EVO cycle so that should be doable... I wonder why it was even Modded out?
                        |TG|ARMA Pathfinder
                        ..now where did I put my keys?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

                          Originally posted by Evil Koala View Post
                          I had a ton of fun on the opfor side. But there are some desparately needed improvements.

                          1) Give the opfor a transfer building with view distance menu

                          2) Add a "transport chopper" similar to the campfire in Serial Killer allowing any opfor to be able to spawn in a selected city, so that Opfor can actually defend the cities, instead of counter-attacking from the outside.

                          3) Remove all scoped rifles; Snipe-fests get boring for everyone.

                          No no no on the camp fire warp! It is not easy to flush out human defenders, they should not be able to just warp right back into defense.

                          Scopes are scopes.... if armor and CAS were used properly, it wouldn't seem so scary.... but ground assets are rarely used effectively, and air assets are not called in nearly as much as they should be.

                          The human opfor, will certainly make air a difficult task now, however. This necessitates actual CAS strikes with no loitering! People will NEED to fly low if they want to get anywhere. Targets need to marked on map and CAS needs to fly in low and fast, spam the target zone, and escape low and fast, before AA launchers are shouldered. While thats happening bluefor movement is less hindered since human opfor forces are probably fiddling with AA launchers.
                          |TG|Switch

                          Better known as:
                          That noob who crashed the chopper.
                          That noob who ran over the mine.
                          That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
                          That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

                            The problem with armor and air is the ranks at this point. In a fresh game, Opfor were snipers and blufor were against a city full of armor and infantry that were very good shots, then add in a few elite snipers and the experience became very difficult.

                            I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but there are many changes needed. To me, this version plays like any other large TvT. A snipe fest. The Opfor will always be encouraged to snipe, it's their only way to account for the difference in numbers unless they try to move with the A.I. Opfor.

                            If the ranks were adjusted, I think it would play much differently, but I still think it turns into a snipe fest. I preferred the COOP evo because it was an easy way to game for an hour or maybe two without needing a lot of players and organization. This version takes way more of both to be truly enjoyable. Could you imagine how impossible it would be to play with 2 or 3 blufor and 1 opfor at the start of the mission?
                            |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                            XBL GT: Khan58

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: TvT EVO ... the Good and the Bad

                              A This is still coop evo.
                              B What'd you say?
                              A This is still coop evo.
                              B You mean we can play this as a coop without anyone going OPFOR
                              A Yes.
                              B Oh.
                              A Nobody has to go OPFOR. Wait until there are at least 8-10 bluefor before introducing human opfor.

                              Under no circumstance should there be 2 blue on 1 opfor...
                              Start the map as a regular evo and if... IF... IF the server fills, then add opfor.
                              If the game is playing poorly because there are too many opfor, or too few bluefor, thats because people are being greedy and wanting to play opfor when there really shouldn't be any.
                              |TG|Switch

                              Better known as:
                              That noob who crashed the chopper.
                              That noob who ran over the mine.
                              That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
                              That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

                              Comment

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