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  • AI Precision on the servers.

    Lately on the server ive been noticing some things with the AI being way too accurate over long distances. I've talked to a few people who frequent the server to get their opinions on the matter and see how they felt, and for the most part people seem to feel that the AI skill is good in that the AI flank and are generally pretty aggressive but they are a little bit too accurate.

    My suggestion is that we lower the AI precision by a little bit as a test until we can find a good medium that satisfies everyone. Now i know people are thinking, "i dont want stupid AI" or " if we lower the AI precision, wont that make evo easier than it already is?". So let me explain a little about what the AI precision setting does. Every weapon has its own dispersion setting which is basicly the bullets deviation from the center of the cone of fire. so if set to zero the bullet goes completely straight its entire flight path. As it is raised the bullets deviate from the center aim point randomly in a circle. What AI precision does is it increases or decreases the AI's dispersion factor on the weapon they use. So for weapons like machine guns and full auto rifle's the ai precision setting should help to make the AI's precision at ranges above 300m more like that of real life and not insta headshots with the first or second bullet.

    Overall this should lead to more intense firefights and a much more immersive gameplay experience than the rather short firefights we have right now, especially with the 100 second wait time we have on the evo server. I have found myself many a times just leaving because an AI shot me through 6 bushes while i was proned from 400-500m away.

  • #2
    Re: AI Precision on the servers.

    Yes some good points sana.
    It would be good to know that if you're out of sight/or line that an AI can not kill you.

    Can anybody confirm. ie if I'm hidden in a bush can the enemy see me.
    if I'm behind a wall am I safe.
    if I'm behind a vehicle am I safe.

    I'm not sure if some of my unexpected deaths are down to differing line of sights ie I'm laying flat and can not see the enemy but they may be crouching and can possibly see the lower half of my body because their line of sight angle is different.
    I don't know how real the game vision is.

    Anybody help out here.
    "I like a man who grins when he fights"
    Sir Winston Churchill


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    • #3
      Re: AI Precision on the servers.

      Same question I've wondered. I've been in situation where it seems being in the shadow and in the trees in broad daylight certainly lowers the AI's ability to detect you.

      However, once you've been detected, it seems like the game places a tracker on you, enabling the AI to hunt you down even if you've hidden away and switched places while hidden.

      Just my observations; don't take them as fact.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: AI Precision on the servers.

        I'd have to agree with every thing you said there. The AI is far to accurate at long and incredibly accurate at short ranges, and like insanitrix said firefights don't last long as long as they should do, which spoils it when you have taken 20 min to set up and get into position and get killed by the 1st shot.
        PR ingame name - |TG-Irr| SilverJohn

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        • #5
          Re: AI Precision on the servers.

          Originally posted by Barnaby View Post
          Yes some good points sana.
          It would be good to know that if you're out of sight/or line that an AI can not kill you.

          Can anybody confirm. ie if I'm hidden in a bush can the enemy see me.
          if I'm behind a wall am I safe.
          if I'm behind a vehicle am I safe.

          I'm not sure if some of my unexpected deaths are down to differing line of sights ie I'm laying flat and can not see the enemy but they may be crouching and can possibly see the lower half of my body because their line of sight angle is different.
          I don't know how real the game vision is.

          Anybody help out here.
          The AI see just as we do, they cant see through fog, they cant see through objects or bushes as long as you are properly concealed. however the AI can HEAR VERY WELL. in fact most of the time they have probably found you by hearing your gun shots from 500-800m away and they can pinpoint your location via that. All that has to do with the AISkill setting which determines their awareness, engagement ranges, and overall behaviour.

          usually if you get shot through a bush its because you've fired a shot that they heard and located you by sound, then flanked you. its kind of hard to understand but they dont actually SEE you per se, what they do is hear you and literally triangulate your position via sound so they can HEAR you within 1m of where you are. As far as footsteps go, i can do some testing into how far away they can hear your footsteps but im pretty sure its easily 50m or so, again depending on what the AISkill setting is set to. It would help if i knew what the servers ran with so i could do some testing and hopefully find a good medium between fun, realism, and immersion.

          Originally posted by Gillespie View Post
          Same question I've wondered. I've been in situation where it seems being in the shadow and in the trees in broad daylight certainly lowers the AI's ability to detect you.

          However, once you've been detected, it seems like the game places a tracker on you, enabling the AI to hunt you down even if you've hidden away and switched places while hidden.

          Just my observations; don't take them as fact.
          have you ever played single player and had an AI squad leader, and you spot someone and the AI squad leader gives you a target? notice how the yellow box shows up around the target? ever notice how it will show up through bushes and such even though the target is completely concealed? that is basicly a general way of describing how they detect and target. so while being concealed has somewhat of an effect on you being detected, once you are detected its like having a giant yellow box around you that says shoot me ;)

          And again they use sight as well as hearing to detect and target so even though you may be behind a bush, there may be an AI close to you that can hear your footsteps and triangulate your position via that, for the whole squad.

          to give you all a sort of example of all of this, a few days back me and sam hoy and a couple others were playing taxi's TvT mission. I'm pretty sure it was codeblue who was also in there with us. I was about 700m away from bagango (i believe. it may have been obregan, i cant quite remember) up on a hill with an M107. all the sudden the AI squad leader from all the way back at masbete calls out a target to me and i get the yellow targeting box telling me exactly where Codeblue was. Now this is from an AI squad leader about 5-6km away. I never spotted codeblue, i never saw him. All i saw was the yellow targeting box from the squad leader. So eventually codeblue ends up getting behind me on the hill, when all of a sudden the AI guys calls out another target. This time codeblue is behind me BEHIND a hill. Again i never saw him and he was behind me yet this AI squad leader knew exactly where he was. Codeblue ended up owning me because i completely suck :) but i think you understand what im saying about the AI now.

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          • #6
            Re: AI Precision on the servers.

            Very enlightening. We're apparently fighting a war against omnipotent, god-like beings. :P

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            • #7
              Re: AI Precision on the servers.

              The A.I. precision is a funny thing. Certain situation it makes the difficulty enjoyable...others it is overbearing. I think some more tweaking is needed definitely, but I think it will wait until the next TG modded Evo is up.
              |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

              XBL GT: Khan58

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              • #8
                Re: AI Precision on the servers.

                Good thread guys with some good deep discussion happening.
                Very interesting.

                The Ai's would seem to need tweaking or at least poking in one eye with a pointed stick so as to reduce their visual excellence a bit.
                "I like a man who grins when he fights"
                Sir Winston Churchill


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: AI Precision on the servers.

                  There are some things they AI are good at and other things that they are not, but a lot of that is depedent on the mission, not necessarily server settngs IMO.

                  FYI, the ArmA modding community has put together an impressive number of tools for mission makers to increase/decrease AI abilities. For example:

                  AI sandbag fix

                  Realistic AI firefight

                  TrueRangeAI

                  Suppressionscript-pack

                  Now, some of these are beta, some these are for SP only, and some have to be included in the mission as opposed to a server side mod, but there is great progress being made in the area.
                  LoyalGuard

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                  • #10
                    Re: AI Precision on the servers.

                    Once the AI see/hear you they can track you through anything (Fog, bushes, hills, etc). The ai do see you though, as well as hear you. I did some tests the other day for detection ranges whilst lying prone and the ai set to 'safe' mode...

                    Daylight - 60-70m
                    night - 15m
                    night and NVG's - 30m
                    Lying under a street lamp makes no difference to the AI being able to spot you - they don't see the light.

                    I also did a test where I lay prone behind an ai a few meters away. If I crawled backwards it wouldn't hear me at all, but if I crawled forwards, it would start to turn around. Then, I stop so he goes back to looking the other way. So I got this stupid, crawl-look-stop,crawl-look-stop,crawl-look-stop, thing going.

                    Once you have been detected though, all that goes to crap. They can then track you through objects, smoke will be useless and bushes may as well not be there (oh and fallen trees the ai may always see through no matter what (because to the ai they aren't there), bug from OFP days which I think persists through to arma - so be warned).

                    It seems as though once you have shot, the AI will be able to track you regardless of smoke, concealment or cover when you shoot again - AI Uber detection ears!

                    http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bi...4;t=64687;st=0

                    This post is quite good about AI hearing you and knowing exactly where you are. This would explain why you get shot through smoke, bushes, etc in one or two shots even though you cannot physically be seen and can be very frustrating.

                    As for their accuracy, I find it varies but most of the time I get killed is because I stay in the same spot, or am lying in the open popping off shots. However, on the flip side of that if I kneel to shoot, exposing only as much as i need to to fire, then after a few shots go prone, displace and pop up again, I live so much longer. There is a battle though to stay alive that goes beyond personal tactics and fall into game design.
                    Jex.

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                    • #11
                      Re: AI Precision on the servers.

                      http://www.1-8th.com/component/optio.../topic,4349.0/

                      Check this post to change the server side AI accuracy. These guys are using it for their Evo server.
                      Jex.

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                      • #12
                        Re: AI Precision on the servers.

                        Originally posted by jex View Post
                        As for their accuracy, I find it varies but most of the time I get killed is because I stay in the same spot, or am lying in the open popping off shots. However, on the flip side of that if I kneel to shoot, exposing only as much as i need to to fire, then after a few shots go prone, displace and pop up again, I live so much longer. There is a battle though to stay alive that goes beyond personal tactics and fall into game design.
                        This is a good point. Generally if you use this method and can down an AI in one or two quick shots you will do fine. It takes discipline to duck/displace even if you happen to miss what you are shooting at, but it's entirely necessary as they will have located you quickly. In retrospect, I find this "fairly" realistic. If someone shoots at you, you usually figure out where the shots are from quite quickly.

                        The biggest problem is that the AI is usually present in far superior numbers so they usually track you down before you can get them all. So goes the war of attrition. Nobody should expect to survive 1 vs 50.

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                        • #13
                          Re: AI Precision on the servers.

                          I think that is why we originally ended up at the settings we are now. Teamwork and movement are more rewarded than Rambo tactics.
                          |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

                          XBL GT: Khan58

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: AI Precision on the servers.

                            Well if I was the AI, and I saw some guy in the same spot shooting, I would have no problem hitting him with one shot. A static target is easy to hit given the time to aim but i do see a lot of players in the wrong spots - i.e. on the reverse side of a hill facing the enemy and not using the hill for cover (presumably because of grass?). This is where I kneel instead and if fire comes my way, I hit prone and the hill protects me. I can also move quickly from this position.
                            Jex.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: AI Precision on the servers.

                              i think people might be missing my original point though because i went and explained alot of stuff about how the AI detect you. I always use cover and if i fire at you from inside or behind a bush its gonna be really hard for you to detect me. The point im trying to make is that our weapons have a set dispersion rate on them which you can see if you fire an M16 past 250m. The AI have a dispersion modifier, so when set to 1.0 they have no dispersion, and when set to .0000 they can barely hit you even up close. i find it farely unrealistic when you fire a single M24 round from 500m away and get hit by a machinegunner in 3-4 bullets from the same distance. i have no problems about the AI shooting that far just that their precision is kinda of too high.

                              *Edit* i did some testing of my own on different ai skill settings and ai precision settings. a good balance i found was .85 for aiskill and .55-.65 for ai precision. at 500m they can still hit you but it isnt the super accurate fire that we have now. it also makes you duck your ass down too haha when you see alot of tracers comming in at you.

                              *second edit* because im so tired i forgot to mention, this will barely have an effect at ranges closer than 150m. they will still be really damn good and accurate in cities.

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