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  • Running playerbased preplanned Coops

    For those of you that have doubts, we wholeheartedly support player based preplanned events at TG. We think this is a great way to allow for more detailed mission selection and planning. Wether the signup is required prior to the event or if it is a free for all is at the planner's disgression.

    Now, to the topic of the regular Sunday preplanned event. The main purpose of the signups is to be able to select a mission based on the headcount of those signed up. We usually try to gauge the interest by midweek and select a mission that suits the number of players we believe will be there. This is the reason we kindly ask people to tell us if they cannot show prior to the event.

    If Sunday is a bad day or the time is no good for you, for you feel free to start a thread where you state the mission and time and you will be the organizer of that event.

    Note that we depend on the organizer to actually follow-up on the event and actually run it otherwise the concept playerbased preplanned events are not going to work.
    Last edited by PanzerHans; 10-19-2007, 10:43 AM.
    --
    VI VI VI - the number of the beast

  • #2
    Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

    Hey Panzer hans,

    Having just read the plethora of locked threads here that seem to be about signing up to play, I am slightly confused as to what exactly is being said - there are some contradictions.

    From what I have gathered, I have to sign up to play, but I don't have to attend but if I don't attend, I may not get to play again unless I state I am not attending 24 hours in advance but that may not be the case because I should just try to say I won't be there but it won't be held against me if I don't. That's how I've been reading it so far from the OP to the replies that have been offered.

    Now it seems to me that if I just post "I might make it", then that seems to cover all bases but then makes signups pointless. I have an awful lot on my plate at the moment, all personal stressful stuff that means I don't know what I am doing and can't really committ, so I am left thinking I should not sign up because I don't wish to let people down and I feel that way because there may be an ultimatum. If I had the option to say, Hey I'll do my best to be there but cannot make any promises, I'd be more inclined to put my name down. As it stands, I'd like an explanation of exactly where we stand so I can decide if it is worth me signing up. OK deep breath now lol

    As for suggesting events I have already done that for this friday so if anyone hasn't seen it, please check out the "weekend coop anyone" thread and hopefully we'll see you later tonight :)
    Jex.

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    • #3
      Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

      The sign up, as said in the other threads, only applies to the Sunday event.

      However, if someone like yourself wants to start a player led Event on a certain day and time they will get admin support to do so, but don't start the Event and then pull a no show as that defeats the purpose. Perfect example would be today and your Friday event. You suggested Friday so you plan on being there, no sign up necessary. That is all that is being asked. Do not let others interpretations cloud what you already were aware of.
      |TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

      XBL GT: Khan58

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      • #4
        Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

        I think too much attention is being payed to the process of signup and not enough attention paid to the purpose.

        If 20 people respond and 10 of those people say they are definitely in, 5 people respond and say they're 50/50, 5 people respond and say it's doubtful but they will try to make it, we know there are 20 interested people total.

        So. In the interests of planning the event, the event coordinator can say: "Ok, so we've got 10 for sure, so lets get a good mission for at least 10 players. We may have up to 20, so whatever we do, lets try and make sure we have room for up to that many.

        I am personally surprised at how some people reacted to this simple request for an event that's occurring ONE day a week.
        Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

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        • #5
          Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

          Regarding the part of : "you must provide at least 24 hours if you need to withdraw." we do ask this in order to be able to properly plan the event. It is impossible to run a preplanned mission event where you count on specific positions to be filled if you cannot depend on people showing up.

          We have a long tradition of allowing reserves at TG and by stating that you are unsure if you can make it, this is where you will be put. Note that you may still be in the event unless it is filled with people that have confirmed that they will be there.

          I will try and better address the reserved list concept in the next "Preplanned Sunday Event" signup post.
          --
          VI VI VI - the number of the beast

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          • #6
            Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

            In a effort to bring fresh missions for the event, the sign up time allows us to get missions that suit the number of people that expressed interest. If 15 people sign up, we will go out and get a mission that has 15 people max to add to the enjoyment. If we do not have a good idea come 24 hours out, we have to get a larger mission that can encompass potentially more people.

            The sign up time is simply for planning, nothing more. If someone has a better method for planning, you are more than welcome to PM one of us and we will be more than glad discuss.
            "The chief foundations of all states, new as well as old or composite, are good laws and good arms; and as there cannot be good laws where the state is not well armed, it follows that where they are well armed they have good laws." -Machiavelli

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            • #7
              Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

              I think it might be easier to ditch the signups and just have missions ready for 5, 10, 15, 16+ players. Always have them ready and when one gets played, evaluate a new mission to take its place. Players don't have to bother signing up and the event will be ready for any number of players. Once a queue of missions are set for the event, you'll only have to pick one new mission once per week.

              Unless the signups would benefit things like pre-briefing information and such, it's just annoying for players to commit to events. A player with a hectic life should just be able to show up and play. If the player misses the start time, too bad.

              - It's who you game with.

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              • #8
                Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

                Not to sure what JEX did but we had a good player COOP event going for about an hour before people started to come and go. Once people started leaving or joining every 5-15 minutes things went down hill.

                The hungry, ignorant man immediately grasps that he is handed a fish, but is bewildered when handed a net. The man who shivers in the cold thinks happily of the man who invites him to sit by his fire, and somewhat poorly of the man who loans him an axe, flint and steel.

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                • #9
                  Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

                  I honestly think it is not asking too much of people to signup to the interest thread. With the added information about the possibility to be put on the reserves list I simply fail to see how it can be a problem for anyone to be a part of the coop.

                  Also, would people not rather by midweek be interested in having an idea of what mission is to be played on the upcoming Sunday and be able to familiar yourselves with the mission? The purpose is that the event is a preplanned one, not just any random chosen missions 1 hour before the event starts.
                  --
                  VI VI VI - the number of the beast

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                  • #10
                    Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

                    Originally posted by PanzerHans View Post
                    Also, would people not rather by midweek be interested in having an idea of what mission is to be played on the upcoming Sunday and be able to familiar yourselves with the mission? The purpose is that the event is a preplanned one, not just any random chosen missions 1 hour before the event starts.
                    Hmmm, I guess that's why the mission is revealed at game time... Unless you give out the briefing a few days before, this is just as good as choosing a random mission from the attendee's point of view.

                    - It's who you game with.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

                      Originally posted by PanzerHans View Post
                      Also, would people not rather by midweek be interested in having an idea of what mission is to be played on the upcoming Sunday and be able to familiar yourselves with the mission? The purpose is that the event is a preplanned one, not just any random chosen missions 1 hour before the event starts.
                      Personally I prefer to go over the briefing at game time. The briefing is read, digested and discussed, at length, and a plan is drawn up. To me, part of the game is the briefing and should be a team effort. It should not take that long to do, and should be easy to follow. Having prior knowledge of the mission would make no difference to me, I'd still go over the briefing and prefer having everything fresh. You also cannot guarentee that everyone has read the briefing prior to gaming, in which case, you have to go over it anyway.
                      Jex.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

                        I've got a a slightly different view on these matters some of which is a little like sitting on the fence.

                        Ref the fence bit: For the Sunday coop I prefer for a main misson that could involve 20+ troopers to know ahead what the mission is and if possible where I will be assigned.
                        Mainly because with the bigger numers it takes for e-v-e-r to set it up.
                        I fail to see why if the maps are known why they can not be declared rather than wait until the Sunday to tell all.
                        That's the main reason I don't bother signing up for Sundays any more, in fact I don't read up those posts either but I note in Panzer's post above he is suggesting the maps ARE now stated before hand.

                        But then.....

                        As in Jex's weekender coop like yesterday [Friday] I'm equally happy only knowing the people who are turning up because I know their game style is my chosen way too, and because we will probably have less troopers on the set up will take less time.

                        However my bottom line in all this is that it should be organised/have a pre-determined battle plan/with individulas assigned tasks & objectives. It would help me to know the map so I can review it before hand and maybe make a best weapon choice too

                        That gets said on the understanding that even in our digital battles nothing ever runs to plan and the unexpected always happens so we also need to have troopers who understand the need to follow orders as they only see the battle narrow view while SL and above have the more global view and yes some times tactics can call for a difficult [even sacrificial] push to win/overcome the enemy.

                        Grumpy Grunt Barnaby
                        "I like a man who grins when he fights"
                        Sir Winston Churchill


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                        • #13
                          Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

                          I don't see why missions can't be set up quickly for larger numbers. Does it matter where you are assigned as you are following your FTL/SL's orders. Whether you have an MG, AT, etc makes little difference because your SL will tell you what the plan is and then it is up to the player to responsibly act upon those orders, working as a team. Unit selection should be quick and without fuss - the briefing should be brief with clear objectives. Given the right players, this is easily accomplished and should be quick. If it's taking it's time then that could be down to several reasons - lack of confidence, tardy players, lack of clarity, over complication, etc.
                          Jex.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

                            We want to have an idea of who we're expecting to show up.

                            That's all.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Running playerbased preplanned Coops

                              Well this past Sundays Co-op event was somewhat weird. I signed up as a reserve but was able to attend. The sign up thread had 3 confirmed and 3 reserve players. I joined the server prior to the event time and there was about 5 people on and playing. As the event time grew closer a few more people joined TS and the questions started about the "event" taking place. Once people knew the event was close to starting almost all the players disconected and eventually my self and Insanatrix were the only ones left.

                              I fully understand the need to have a sign up system in place, but it partly scares players away as well. It was as if the mention of the "event" was enough to make players quite even though it was obvious they wanted to play Arma. I found it odd that the player base reacted that way. Perhaps we keep the sign up system but soften the tone off it and include a rule that people are free to play without sign up as long as any who did sign up are garunteed a spot (reservists included)? From recent experince this seems to be the case but not stated in the sign up thread. I just think that if it is made clear that the event is to include people regardless of sign up but still structured around your sign up players you may be better off in the end. Taking this weekend as an example if you knew you had 3 confirmed slots and 3 reserves you could pick a few missions that were for <8-10 players. If your confirmed players show and a few of the others leaving you with 5-6 players your pre selected missions are still viable. Plus if a few additional guys jump in you have the room.

                              This may not be the answer your looking for. For me I can rarely confirm that I will be there with 100% certainty and as such don't want to sign up and not show only to be "punished" for this come the next event. Obviously this is my problem not TG's but I have a feeling many people are in that situation as well.

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